Recumbent Hill Climbing ??

[Geob]

> I simply wouldn't ride nearly as much if it weren't for the comfort of recumbents.

Amen!

> you will probably have to set up lower gearing than most bents come with in their stock
> configuration.

I need to be especially careful with my knees. I geared mine about as low as I can, any lower and it
would fall over. I don't care how long it takes me to climb the hill, I'm not racing anybody. If I
had a trike (maybe in the future) I'd gear it even lower.

> Plan on a 24 front granny and 32 big cog in the back as a minimum.

Yes. Mine is 22 in front 32 in back, and has a 26" rear tire. I never use my top cogs either, so I
changed all three chainrings in front to lower them and make them more useful to my lifestyle.

> > I think if I could not ride a recumbent I would not be riding any kind of bike at all.

Me too. Back trouble, elbow trouble, neck, hand/wrist, knee trouble. The recument by-passes all of
that except the knees.

Riding an up-right means you are on an ass-hatchet, staring at your front tire while whizzing down
the road head-first doing a pushup.

Recumbents have a natural upright position of the head. I can look at stuff as I go by without
dislocating a disc in my neck. My nether parts are not complaining. My weight is not on my wrists
and arthritic elbows. My hands are not numb.

Recumbents are a lot more fun! People shouldn't have to make a case FOR recumbents, it would make
more sense to have to make a case why NOT a recumbent (if one didn't want one).

Riding a recumbent means you never have to say you're sore.

 

[Cletus Lee]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...

> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
> Face it, Ed You're just a lazy, flaccid slob. Flaccid, flaccid, flaccid. Riders with just a
> reasonable amount of enthusiasm (not fanatics) can become reasonably proficient at hill climbing.
> You just can't handle the truth. Lots of people climb hills perfectly well, but *YOU* can't.
> You're flaccid, Ed.
>
Scott, Do you know Ed's wife?

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

 

[Scott]

[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message > <snip> One of these days he is
> going to be old Scott and then he will just naturally gravitate to any flat areas that he can find
> there in the Mountain West. It will be the beginning of wisdom for him.
>

<snip>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Ed, why are you so eager to "go gently into that good night"?

Read this:

Ron,your State Champ is most likely correct,On my Southern Tier Tour in August I was A little sore
and stiff most every morning . But starting slow, after a few miles was fine. Averaged about 84
miles per day for 34 days.by the way age 64 may have had something to do with it. best to you.
Larry C Pierce.

From the Bentrideronline message board.

People in their 60's and 70's are riding TransAm's! Give up early if you want to, Ed. That's your
choice. I'm going to give it the good fight for as long as I can. Sure, we all end up as worm food.
I intend to give the Devil a run for his money.

Ciao,

Scott

 

[Edward Dolan]

Cletus Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> >
> > Face it, Ed You're just a lazy, flaccid slob. Flaccid, flaccid, flaccid. Riders with just a
> > reasonable amount of enthusiasm (not fanatics) can become reasonably proficient at hill
> > climbing. You just can't handle the truth. Lots of people climb hills perfectly well, but *YOU*
> > can't. You're flaccid, Ed.
> >
> Scott, Do you know Ed's wife?

No, Cletus, you ostrich who has kill filed me (or has he?). I am not being cuckolded by some moron
in Arizona. You don't think I was ever stupid enough to get married do you? I leave that sort of
thing to the common run of humanity, of which you more than qualify. I'll bet you kill file your
wife too all the time when you don't approve of what or how she says something to you. You are
nothing but one huge colossal head case who thinks he is the world's foremost expert on everything.
But it is easy to think foolish things like you do when you have kill filed everyone with whom you
disagree. Welcome to your world as you might say, but be careful - folks like you end up in mental
institutions all the time.

You could take a lesson from Scott. As far as I know he does not kill file anyone, nor does Mr.
Sherman - and I am disagreeing with those two birds on practically everything under the sun all the
time. They are the better for it as am I. But you are an ostrich and you have ostrich ways of
dealing with reality. You are infinitely the worse for it.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Timh]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It appears that comparable recumbents are still heavier than uprights. For example, a Bacchetta
> Aero is about 5 pounds heavier than a titanium alloy DF with Ultegra components.
>

Tom is right on the money with weight comparison.

 

[Mikael Seierup]

"TimH" skrev ...
>
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> berlin.de...
> > It appears that comparable recumbents are still heavier than uprights. For example, a Bacchetta
> > Aero is about 5 pounds heavier than a titanium alloy DF with Ultegra components.
> >
>
> Tom is right on the money with weight comparison.

Sheez! Are you trying to kill him? You know his head will grow bigger and eventually explode if you
tell him he's right. ;o)

 

[Carol Cohen]

[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> But the reason I am responding to your post is because your first name intrigues me. One of the
> greatest directors of film ever was Carol Reed (The Third Man - arguably the greatest English
> language film of all time). He was a man of course, and I think in England that is commonly a
> man's name, but in America it is more often a woman's name. So, are you a man or a woman? We need
> to know.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Dear Ed "It's Not About Me" Dolan:

1. Them as needs to know, knows.
2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.

C.C. http://www.carolcohen.com

 

[Edward Dolan]

Cletus Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

> > Face it, Ed You're just a lazy, flaccid slob. Flaccid, flaccid, flaccid. Riders with just a
> > reasonable amount of enthusiasm (not fanatics) can become reasonably proficient at hill
> > climbing. You just can't handle the truth. Lots of people climb hills perfectly well, but *YOU*
> > can't. You're flaccid, Ed.
> >
> Scott, Do you know Ed's wife?

Main Entry: flac·cid Pronunciation: ÷'fla-s&d also 'flak-s&d Function: adjective Etymology: Latin
flaccidus, from flaccus flabby Date: 1620 1 a : not firm or stiff; also : lacking normal or youthful
firmness <flaccid muscles> b of a plant part : deficient in turgor
2 : lacking vigor or force <flaccid leadership>

Merriam-Webster

The only ones here who have flaccidity on the brain are Scott and Cletus. Maybe all that exhaustion
from hard cycling with reference to speed and hill climbing has gone from their brains to their
groins. Now one is as flaccid as the other. My cure for what ails them is to settle down with some
beer and pretzels like the rest of us red-blooded Americans and watch some Clint Eastwood movies
(Dirty Harry) on the **** tube and give their bikes a rest. That way they could refresh both their
simple brains and their simple groins.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Scott]

Cletus Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> >
> > Face it, Ed You're just a lazy, flaccid slob. Flaccid, flaccid, flaccid. Riders with just a
> > reasonable amount of enthusiasm (not fanatics) can become reasonably proficient at hill
> > climbing. You just can't handle the truth. Lots of people climb hills perfectly well, but *YOU*
> > can't. You're flaccid, Ed.
> >
> Scott, Do you know Ed's wife?

Got get 'em, Cletus! We'll find the bottom of this yet! )

Scott

 

[Geob]

> Why has everyone written about how hard climbing those hills is, and nobody mentions the
> phenomenal downhill speed a recumbent attains, passing all those DF bikers?

I'll write about it... not to imply that I actually *know* anything about it.

I am new to riding with people. I am also new to 'bents. I have ridden a DF for years as a commuter
but not too much socially (none at all I think).

I started off on a Saturday to do 40 - 50 miles and my rich neighbor who is a total bike nut (his
garage is literally full of expensive bikes) unexpectedly pulls out to join me. We whiz along OK but
he leaves me at a steep hill. He was well ahead of me starting down and he was pedaling. I just
coasted and whipped by him. First time I ever had anybody next to me for a comparison. Un-real!
Caught his attention! He commented, "I have always heard that recumbents were fast downhill!" He
knew I was a newbie.

My DF friends and I were comparing top speeds. These guys had $4000 DF's, trick everything. I have
an R40. They had about the same max top speed [1](downhill) that I did, some were a bit higher, some
a bit lower. I had 45 mph, but I wasn't pedaling and was using the brakes. I doubt any of that crowd
could catch me on a long downhill. If they came near me, I'd just start pedaling!

[1] I so far have only gone down one hill and it wasn't really big at all. I am talking about max
top speed we each have experienced to date on our individual machines.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Carol Cohen wrote:

> ...
> 1. Them as needs to know, knows.
> 2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.

I have met more that 10 people who post at least occasionally to a.r.b.r.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

 

[Larry Varney]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Carol Cohen wrote:
>
>> ...
>> 1. Them as needs to know, knows.
>> 2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.
>
>
> I have met more that 10 people who post at least occasionally to a.r.b.r.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
>
>

And you wouldn't come over to intercept GITAP when it passed by last year, to meet at least your
eleventh. I'm not sure of its exact route this year, but it will be going through Galena, which
is fairly nearby.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

 

[Tom Sherman]

Larry Varney wrote:

> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Carol Cohen wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> 1. Them as needs to know, knows.
>>> 2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have met more that 10 people who post at least occasionally to a.r.b.r.
>>
>> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
>>
>>
>
> And you wouldn't come over to intercept GITAP when it passed by last
> year, to meet at least your eleventh. I'm not sure of its exact route
> this year, but it will be going through Galena, which is fairly nearby.

IIRC, that was one of the weeks where I worked all 7 days and was farther behind at the end than at
the beginning.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

 

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> Larry Varney <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
>>>I have done the Wisconsin week long bike tour many times (GRABAAWR) and I have never seen so many
>>>heavy cyclists in my life.
>>
>> Were you on GRABAAWR 2000?
>
>
> I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I might incriminate myself! But the
> correct answer is ... yes!
>
> GRABAAWR is a great ride by the way for anyone who loves Wisconsin. It helps if the weather
> cooperates which is not always the case. It is relatively flat for the most part, although each
> and every year that I have ever done it I end up walking the same four hills. Each year I think
> maybe I will be able to make those hills but I never do. Let's face it! As you get older you do
> not get any stronger.
>
> The main problem with GRABAAWR is that you can count on at least one day of solid rain. And
> occasionally the temp can be in the high 90's with a humidity to match. But the scenery never
> stops and before you know it you are back in Prairie du Chien from whence you initially departed
> for Eagle River in far Northern Wisconsin. You have in essence followed the entire length of the
> Wisconsin River all the way through the State from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to its merging
> with the mighty Mississippi River. Ah! those were the days!
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Actually, if I remember correctly, the only day of rain in 2000 was that first day. I rode the
longer route, actually went about 100 yards over into Michigan up by Land o'Lakes, and found out
later than pine threes don't do a good job of keeping you dry! So I just kept on riding. And how
about that County Route C (I think it was called) on the last day, almost to Prarie du Chien? Now
that was a hill! I do agree with you, it's a great ride. I may have to do it again sometime. I
rode GITAP in Illinois last year, its first, and I'm signed up for it this year as well. Another
great ride.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

 

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> Larry Varney <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But everyone is the world's foremost expert on their own body - what it can do and what it
>>>can't do.
>
>
>> The discussion was not about anyone's body, but about the fact that the best information comes
>> from those with experience, not from those with inexperience. You claim the latter. Or do you
>> disagree?
>
>
> No, the discussion was about what one is an expert on. Expertise does not relate to a particular
> experience in this context, unless it is a generalized experience from the mere fact of having
> lived. It is just God given if you will.

Nope, the discussion was about "valuable advice" as given by some bike shop people who had no
experience with recumbents, and you claimed that it was better than the advice from people who
had experience with recumnbents. You further claimed that such experience led to "prejudice" and
"bias". Do you need for me to put your post about this back up for you to read? But I do find it
funny that you continue to think that expertise in a subject is not due to experience, but is
"god given". Here's hoping that the airline pilot on my next flight wasn't chosen because he had
no experience actually flying a plane, but that he claimed he had lots of "expertise" because it
was given to him at birth or something, like his hair color.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (Carol Cohen) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > But the reason I am responding to your post is because your first name intrigues me. One of the
> > greatest directors of film ever was Carol Reed (The Third Man - arguably the greatest English
> > language film of all time). He was a man of course, and I think in England that is commonly a
> > man's name, but in America it is more often a woman's name. So, are you a man or a woman? We
> > need to know.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Dear Ed "It's Not About Me" Dolan:
>
> 1. Them as needs to know, knows.
> 2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.

OK, but occasionally I need to refer to the person I am responding to in the third person, so do not
take offense if I get it wrong. I will try to figure out from your style which you are, but there
are so many masculine women and so many feminine men now a days that it is not always easy to do. I
grew up knowing several Carols and they were all women.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> [email protected] (Carol Cohen) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>[email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
>>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>
>>>But the reason I am responding to your post is because your first name intrigues me. One of the
>>>greatest directors of film ever was Carol Reed (The Third Man - arguably the greatest English
>>>language film of all time). He was a man of course, and I think in England that is commonly a
>>>man's name, but in America it is more often a woman's name. So, are you a man or a woman? We need
>>>to know.
>>>
>>>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>>
>>Dear Ed "It's Not About Me" Dolan:
>>
>>1. Them as needs to know, knows.
>>2. Hey, this is the internet. Nobody knows anyway.
>
>
> OK, but occasionally I need to refer to the person I am responding to in the third person, so do
> not take offense if I get it wrong. I will try to figure out from your style which you are, but
> there are so many masculine women and so many feminine men now a days that it is not always easy
> to do. I grew up knowing several Carols and they were all women.

A simple Internet search would reveal C.C.'s gender identity. Mr. Dolan must not have been lurking
that long on a.r.b.r, or he would know the answer.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> > I simply wouldn't ride nearly as much if it weren't for the comfort of recumbents.
>
> Amen!
>
> > you will probably have to set up lower gearing than most bents come with in their stock
> > configuration.
>
> I need to be especially careful with my knees. I geared mine about as low as I can, any lower and
> it would fall over. I don't care how long it takes me to climb the hill, I'm not racing anybody.
> If I had a trike (maybe in the future) I'd gear it even lower.
>
> > Plan on a 24 front granny and 32 big cog in the back as a minimum.
>
> Yes. Mine is 22 in front 32 in back, and has a 26" rear tire. I never use my top cogs either, so I
> changed all three chainrings in front to lower them and make them more useful to my lifestyle.
>
> > > I think if I could not ride a recumbent I would not be riding any kind of bike at all.
>
> Me too. Back trouble, elbow trouble, neck, hand/wrist, knee trouble. The recument by-passes all of
> that except the knees.
>
> Riding an up-right means you are on an ass-hatchet, staring at your front tire while whizzing down
> the road head-first doing a pushup.
>
> Recumbents have a natural upright position of the head. I can look at stuff as I go by without
> dislocating a disc in my neck. My nether parts are not complaining. My weight is not on my wrists
> and arthritic elbows. My hands are not numb.
>
> Recumbents are a lot more fun! People shouldn't have to make a case FOR recumbents, it would make
> more sense to have to make a case why NOT a recumbent (if one didn't want one).
>
> Riding a recumbent means you never have to say you're sore.

I don't see how you can be so sensible about recumbents and so nonsensical about politics.

I especially like what you say about recumbents just being more fun to ride. All this blather about
speed on a recumbent is a total turn off for me. And then when someone tells me that recumbents are
actually better hill climbers than uprights, I know have entered the Twilight Zone for sure. Welcome
to the Club of Sane Recumbent Riders, always a very small minority here on ARBR.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (Scott) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message > <snip> One of these days he is
> > going to be old Scott and then he will just naturally gravitate to any flat areas that he can
> > find there in the Mountain West. It will be the beginning of wisdom for him.
> >
>
> <snip>
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Ed, why are you so eager to "go gently into that good night"?
>
> Read this:
>
> Ron,your State Champ is most likely correct,On my Southern Tier Tour in August I was A little sore
> and stiff most every morning . But starting slow, after a few miles was fine. Averaged about 84
> miles per day for 34 days.by the way age 64 may have had something to do with it. best to you.
> Larry C Pierce.
>
>
> From the Bentrideronline message board.
>
> People in their 60's and 70's are riding TransAm's! Give up early if you want to, Ed. That's your
> choice. I'm going to give it the good fight for as long as I can. Sure, we all end up as worm
> food. I intend to give the Devil a run for his money.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Scott

For a period of 5 years I did week long group bike tours all summer long (one summer I did 6 of them
- way too many!) where I took note of my fellow cyclists, uprights and recumbents. As you get older
the number of cyclists thin out like you wouldn't believe. Yes, there are still a fair number of
cyclists doing their thing in their 60's, but it begins to thin out drastically by the mid 70's.
Anyone doing any kind of bike touring in their 80's is rare indeed, but not totally impossible.

I have always greatly enjoyed associating with older cyclists as I find I fit right in with them
myself. Some of these older cyclists are truly iron men but others are more like me - getting slower
and slower. We will all of us know when to slow down and when to eventually quit as long as we
listen to our bodies.

Every now and then I read a newspaper notice about some guy in his 70's who has dropped dead on
his bicycle. It sounds to me from what you write above that maybe that is the way you would like
to go. I think I would just as soon go peacefully in my sleep in my own bed and not out on the
road on my bicycle.

But I still have a few good years left I am reasonably certain. And so I will continue on in my
accustomed fashion pushing myself only slightly - and trying my best to stay away from hills and
other such nuisances.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> >>Edward Dolan wrote:
> >>
> >>>But everyone is the world's foremost expert on their own body - what it can do and what it
> >>>can't do.
> >
> >> The discussion was not about anyone's body, but about the fact that the best information
> >> comes from those with experience, not from those with inexperience. You claim the latter. Or
> >> do you disagree?
> >
> > No, the discussion was about what one is an expert on. Expertise does not relate to a particular
> > experience in this context, unless it is a generalized experience from the mere fact of having
> > lived. It is just God given if you will.
>
> Nope, the discussion was about "valuable advice" as given by some bike shop people who had no
> experience with recumbents, and you claimed that it was better than the advice from people who
> had experience with recumnbents. You further claimed that such experience led to "prejudice"
> and "bias". Do you need for me to put your post about this back up for you to read?

No, I believe the original post to which you and I are both referring was about a couple of guys who
had gotten recumbent bikes and then had sold them after a few rides, mainly because of their
slowness on hills. So they had experience. It just was not as extensive as yours and mine. I am
claiming that their very limited experience is just as valuable as our more extensive experience as
regards the ability of recumbents to climb hills without getting into the "motor" aspects.

> But I do find it funny that you continue to think that expertise in a subject is not due to
> experience, but is "god given". Here's hoping that the airline pilot on my next flight wasn't
> chosen because he had no experience actually flying a plane, but that he claimed he had lots of
> "expertise" because it was given to him at birth or something, like his hair color.

The "god given" part had to do with how you perceive your own body as it relates to cycling. It did
not extend beyond that very limited aspect. It was really a throw away line and not essential to
what I was saying.

The reason you can't read me is because you trip over single phrases and sentences every time. You
are unable to view an essay whole. When I am responding to a message (or essay) I back off from it
and try to get the sense of it whole. I do not focus on any single word, phrase or statement.
Sometimes I reread an entire message to make sure I have got the sense of what is being said. Only
then do I began to compose my response.

You are too quick to jump on words, phrases and statements without getting the sense of the whole.
That is why it is so frustrating to try to communicate anything to you. When it comes to simple
matters you are very good (experience counts - who could argue with that?), but when it comes to
more complex matters (inexperience or very limited experience also counts and is very valuable) you
simplify without any appreciation of the complexities.

Half the fault is my own because I could and should express my thoughts better, but it is not easy
to express abstractions without taking a great deal of effort. I had decided earlier from months of
previewing newsgroup messages on ARBR that this forum does not merit much effort. No one here ever
reads anything very carefully and so it is best not to get too rigorous with our thoughts or with
our words. It will just be wasted and all for nothing.

Mr. Sherman is the best example I know of on this newsgroup who often takes pains to get his facts
right, but his thinking about those facts is not rigorous at all. Nevertheless, it takes effort
to even get your facts right. But it takes even more effort to get your abstractions right. I
will spend only so much time and effort on the task for the purposes of this newsgroup.

I will admit it is a wise man who knows when to shut up when confronted with a real expert and
someone who has a world of experience, but I do not often find those types here. Most of us are just
ordinary guys who know a little about a lot of things and not much about anything.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota