Recumbent vs. Traditional



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> "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a roadie
>> yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills also.

> [email protected] wrote: Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit
> that bents can't climb as well as DF's. Your claims are suspicious.

SOME bents are slower uphill. SOME riders are slower uphill.

Does your world allow for generalities, with exceptions to the rule?

I am NOT a great rider, but sometimes pass diamond frame riders uphill and sometimes I do not pass
anyone uphill.
 
"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BAA9D441.7A70%[email protected]...
>
> > "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a roadie
> >> yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills also.
>
> > [email protected] wrote: Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit
> > that bents can't climb as well as DF's. Your claims are suspicious.
>
> SOME bents are slower uphill. SOME riders are slower uphill.
>
> Does your world allow for generalities, with exceptions to the rule?

Sure, but the rule is that bents are slower climbers. A fast climber on a bent would be faster
yet on a DF. It's not reasonable to claim that a bent made you a faster climber than everyone
in a locale.
 
"Curtis L. Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> For a few years there were several low-racers on the Seagull Century that outran everything but
> the USCF pacelines and a few A-type tandem teams.
>
> I also did the final time point for a USCF/open time trial a couple of years ago, and one of three
> fastest bikes was a recumbent -

All you are saying is that sometimes fast guys ride bents. I know plenty of fast guys who tried
bents and went back. They went back because they weren't any faster. These guys would kill to
go faster.
 
"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<hhYga.241320$3D1.130592@sccrnsc01>...
> "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a roadie
> > yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills also.
>
> Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit that bents can't climb as well as DF's.
> Your claims are suspicious.

Ask Mr. Foltz how the baron climbs. I'm up to a 316 watt average output now for the 10k time trial
on the bike now, so that may be a factor in my climbing ability. I've also been working out with a
leg press at home. I have a DF and I can still climb faster on the Baron now. Now if you gave me a
5% grade that was a mile long, well then that might be another story. I could keep up with the
roadies for a long time. Now if they were not able to stand in the saddle, however and had to sit
and spin all the way, then I would probably beat them to the top. The leg press, puts me into the
same position as on the lowracer, so naturally my legs are delveloped for this position now. I got
out on a long straight flat road last weekend with no wind and was able to hold 29.5 mph by myself
for 17 minutes until I ran out of road. Of course my heartrate was at 169 bpm with probably near a
280 watt output. I'm not saying all bents are optimized for hills at all. I'm saying my legs and
bike are optimized now. Its pretty much a mental thing also. I just tell myself that those roadies
will not beat me to the top. Once a roadie has to stand on the pedals, they usually don't accelerate
too much from that point. I usually do a bit higher gear and mash my way up trying to let the
aerodynamics help me out a bit. Its all about maintaining momentum and enduring pain. Remember, the
faster you get to the top, the sooner the pain is over. Where I ride in the Metro park system on the
roads, I'm pretty much the fastest thing out there now, unless of course Frank Geyer shows up on his
Jester. He is my competition now. I haven't had a chance to ride yet with the other fast riders like
Alan Ariel or Ed Gin. John Foltz is a heck of a hill climber also on his baron. He gave the guys on
the Dalmac tour last year a pretty good hurting on the hills. I also heard rumour that he did very
well on the Hilly Hundred ride. I probably would not choose the baron for any mountain type
riding..........mainly not due to the fact of going up, but the scary thought of going down.
 
In article <DD2ha.244222$3D1.132029@sccrnsc01>, [email protected] says...
> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BAA9D441.7A70%[email protected]...
> >
> > > "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >> I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a
> > >> roadie yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills
> > >> also.
> >
> > > [email protected] wrote: Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit
> > > that bents can't climb as well as DF's. Your claims are suspicious.
> >
> > SOME bents are slower uphill. SOME riders are slower uphill.
> >
> > Does your world allow for generalities, with exceptions to the rule?
>
> Sure, but the rule is that bents are slower climbers. A fast climber on a bent would be faster
> yet on a DF. It's not reasonable to claim that a bent made you a faster climber than everyone in
> a locale.

I've been watching this thread with interest, and I don't understand why someone would expect to be
a better climber on a DF than a bent, assuming equivalent experience and similar bike weights
(within a few pounds).

ISTM that you can push harder on the pedals on a bent than you can on a DF, because you are braced
against a solid back rest. Therefore you should be able to push significantly harder than your own
weight (assuming your knees are up to it), which would allow you to push slightly taller gears at
the same RPM. On a DF, you are limited to little more than your own weight (pulling down on the
handlebars). If you chose to gear down and spin the same rpm on the bent, you should be able to
climb at essentially the same rate.

Can someone explain (or try to) why the difference?

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.
 
Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BAA9D441.7A70%[email protected]>...
> > "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a roadie
> >> yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills also.
>
> > [email protected] wrote: Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit
> > that bents can't climb as well as DF's. Your claims are suspicious.
>
> SOME bents are slower uphill. SOME riders are slower uphill.
>
> Does your world allow for generalities, with exceptions to the rule?
>
> I am NOT a great rider, but sometimes pass diamond frame riders uphill and sometimes I do not pass
> anyone uphill.
Where I train, the hills are actually hills and not considered rollers. If a DF has a good run at a
hill, say doing 25 mph, they get half way up and then drop to a low gear, stand on the pedals and
crank their way to the top. I approach the hill generally near 30mph plus and have to drop to a
lower gear about 10% from the top of the hill. So naturally when they have slowed to about 12 mph in
their climb, I smoke by them still doing 25 mph. If my legs are good and fresh, 25 mph now is the
slowest speed I drop to on the hill. Once cresting the top, I can hang at 25 mph then accelerate on
the long downgrade approaching 34 mph. On my DF, I could no way do this, not in a million years of
training. I might as well be a pro rider if I could do that on a DF.
 
CK197 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hello, I'm thinking of getting into cycling to alleviate the boredom I get from traditional forms
> of exercise. Since cycling seems to be more fun, I would like to know if there are any websites
> that highlight the differences between recumbent and traditional bikes, the pros and cons, what
> type to buy, etc. Any help would be appreciated.

the best thing for you to do would be to go to dealers and get test rides on both recumbents and
diamond frame bikes. that's the only way to find out which will really suit you the best. seems like
every time we get a thread like this, it turns into a "recumbents vs. wedgies, mine is better than
yours" thread. hopefully, that won't happen this time. one thing i do disagree with is the nearly
universal opinion that recumbents are better for bad backs. this may be true for a lot of people,
but not me. i have four vertebrae in my lower back that are pretty much bone-on-bone, due to
disintegration of the discs. the recumbent position (or any reclining position) is the worst
possible one for me. i use a DF with wide drop bars set level with the seat, and a moderate amount
of forward lean. the seat height leaves a small amount of bend in my leg with the pedal down. in
this position, my weight is distributed between my legs, arms, and buns/back. i can easily rise off
the saddle for bumps in the road or just to pedal standing to stretch out. if anyone with a bad back
is considering a recumbent, i would strongly recommend a long test ride. it could be the best thing
for you; then again, you may find it doesn't work, as i have.
 
[email protected] (smokey) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> CK197 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hello, I'm thinking of getting into cycling to alleviate the boredom I get from traditional
> > forms of exercise. Since cycling seems to be more fun, I would like to know if there are any
> > websites that highlight the differences between recumbent and traditional bikes, the pros and
> > cons, what type to buy, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> the best thing for you to do would be to go to dealers and get test rides on both recumbents and
> diamond frame bikes. that's the only way to find out which will really suit you the best. seems
> like every time we get a thread like this, it turns into a "recumbents vs. wedgies, mine is better
> than yours" thread. hopefully, that won't happen this time. one thing i do disagree with is the
> nearly universal opinion that recumbents are better for bad backs. this may be true for a lot of
> people, but not me. i have four vertebrae in my lower back that are pretty much bone-on-bone, due
> to disintegration of the discs. the recumbent position (or any reclining position) is the worst
> possible one for me. i use a DF with wide drop bars set level with the seat, and a moderate amount
> of forward lean. the seat height leaves a small amount of bend in my leg with the pedal down. in
> this position, my weight is distributed between my legs, arms, and buns/back. i can easily rise
> off the saddle for bumps in the road or just to pedal standing to stretch out. if anyone with a
> bad back is considering a recumbent, i would strongly recommend a long test ride. it could be the
> best thing for you; then again, you may find it doesn't work, as i have.

The only problem with going to dealers and trying out bents to see which might be better for you or
faster, is that there aren't very many fast bents at dealers in the United States. Unfortunately,
most of the very fast and low bents are in Europe, such as Optima, M-5, Challenge, and so on. George
Reynolds has some fast t-bone models here in the U.S. , but good luck getting one for a test ride.
Personally, I'm glad that lowracers haven't caught on yet by the roadie crowd. Its great doing
century rides with 6000 riders and passing 97% of them. This is no joke. Last summer, Frank Geyer on
his challenge Jester with Razz FAzz tailbox, solo'd the entire Hancock Horizontal 100 mile ride for
a total time of 4 hours 15 minutes. He left 20 minutes after the mass start and still came in first.
This is a noted ride where many roadies attend to try and get the best possible century times. Many
treat it as a race. I did it in 4 hours 45 minutes with only having 3 months worth of riding time on
the bike with no previous winter training. This year I have so am going for the 4:15 time.
 
In article <BAA9A378.7A4B%[email protected]>,
Jay <[email protected]> writes:

> There were so many advantages to riding recumbents that I put in an adapter to get up/down in the
> lowest trike.

This intrigues my mechanical connoisseur-ness. Is it some sort of raisable/lowerable seat? Something
hydraulic could be really pretty -- maybe something fashioned out of parts of an old oil-damped fork
... hmm, what to pump it with? ...

> I can ride comfortably for about 10 hours on a properly fitted bent compared to about 10minutes on
> a diamond frame.

I really don't doubt you at all. Bikes and skeletons can be all kinds of odd mixes. I remember about
5 years ago I was suffering from a bout of the sciatica. I *had* to either lay in some groceries or
go hungry, but I couldn't walk very much. So, I determined to use my bike (a DF MTB at the time) as
a sort of scooter, scoogying along with my feet on the pavement. But of course, I _had_ to step on
the pedals and rotate 'em :) Next thing I knew, the sciatica was cured.

That was one of my best rides, ever. I opine that my fractured coxxyx (a classic barstool-toppling
injury) never healed properly and was pinching the nerve; pedalling opened the fracture enough to
release the nerve. But while suffering with a lot of lumbar pain, for that time, riding was the last
thing I wanted to do. The sciatica never came back since then.

> Are recumbents better than diamond frame? No- more like "Isn't it great to have a range of
> possibilities to suit your needs".

Yes! I entirely agree with you there. I like to say it as: "options are good." Can't get enough of
'em. But, hey -- I'm claustraphobic :)

> There are so many factors that I emphasise again that the rider needs to figure out his/her needs
> and *experience* each style of bike.

Some of the LWB 'bents, I'd *hate* to have to wrestle out my basement shop/office, around the
corner, out the basement door, and up the little flight of concrete stairs to ground level. I can
see recumbents presenting their own, pragmatic storage and parking problems. That said, please know
that I'm not dis'ing them. As you suggest, they could be ideally suited to some folks; "traditional"
configs can be ideally suited to other folks. And recumbents open /design/ doors ... or at least,
keep them unlocked. I think that's a Good Thing.

> I still say that the main thing is the original poster's OWN feel as he tries many options for
> extended riding.

But the basics are always a good starting point. Test rides are good, too. There's another option.
Options are good.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca
 
[email protected] (ckaudio1) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (smokey) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > CK197 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Hello, I'm thinking of getting into cycling to alleviate the boredom I get from traditional
> > > forms of exercise. Since cycling seems to be more fun, I would like to know if there are any
> > > websites that highlight the differences between recumbent and traditional bikes, the pros and
> > > cons, what type to buy, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > the best thing for you to do would be to go to dealers and get test rides on both recumbents and
> > diamond frame bikes. that's the only way to find out which will really suit you the best. seems
> > like every time we get a thread like this, it turns into a "recumbents vs. wedgies, mine is
> > better than yours" thread. hopefully, that won't happen this time. one thing i do disagree with
> > is the nearly universal opinion that recumbents are better for bad backs. this may be true for a
> > lot of people, but not me. i have four vertebrae in my lower back that are pretty much
> > bone-on-bone, due to disintegration of the discs. the recumbent position (or any reclining
> > position) is the worst possible one for me. i use a DF with wide drop bars set level with the
> > seat, and a moderate amount of forward lean. the seat height leaves a small amount of bend in my
> > leg with the pedal down. in this position, my weight is distributed between my legs, arms, and
> > buns/back. i can easily rise off the saddle for bumps in the road or just to pedal standing to
> > stretch out. if anyone with a bad back is considering a recumbent, i would strongly recommend a
> > long test ride. it could be the best thing for you; then again, you may find it doesn't work, as
> > i have.
>
> The only problem with going to dealers and trying out bents to see which might be better for you
> or faster, is that there aren't very many fast bents at dealers in the United States.
> Unfortunately, most of the very fast and low bents are in Europe, such as Optima, M-5, Challenge,
> and so on. George Reynolds has some fast t-bone models here in the U.S. , but good luck getting
> one for a test ride. Personally, I'm glad that lowracers haven't caught on yet by the roadie
> crowd. Its great doing century rides with 6000 riders and passing 97% of them. This is no joke.
> Last summer, Frank Geyer on his challenge Jester with Razz FAzz tailbox, solo'd the entire Hancock
> Horizontal 100 mile ride for a total time of 4 hours 15 minutes. He left 20 minutes after the mass
> start and still came in first. This is a noted ride where many roadies attend to try and get the
> best possible century times. Many treat it as a race. I did it in 4 hours 45 minutes with only
> having 3 months worth of riding time on the bike with no previous winter training. This year I
> have so am going for the 4:15 time.

this is what i mean, another "we are faster than you" thread. who gives a damn, anyway? i'm glad you
enjoy your recumbent, and i'm glad all the people you pass enjoy their DFs, too. undoubtably i would
be one of them, my riding skills still leave a lot to be desired. there is one area where i would
finish near the top, however; the riders who enjoy their bicycles and every day when they are able
to ride them. it would be the same if i had a recumbent and was able to ride it. ride what you enjoy
and respect the other riders and their choice of mounts, too! smokey strodtman
 
[email protected] (ckaudio1) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<hhYga.241320$3D1.130592@sccrnsc01>...
> > "ckaudio1" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I would have to say that I am much faster on my Optima Baron lowracer. I haven't found a
> > > roadie yet around here that I haven't been able to outrun. \ I now pass them up the hills
> > > also.
> >
> > Even the most enthusiastic bent riders all seem to admit that bents can't climb as well as DF's.
> > Your claims are suspicious.
>
> Ask Mr. Foltz how the baron climbs. I'm up to a 316 watt average output now for the 10k time trial
> on the bike now, so that may be a factor in my climbing ability. I've also been working out with a
> leg press at home. I have a DF and I can still climb faster on the Baron now. Now if you gave me a
> 5% grade that was a mile long, well then that might be another story. I could keep up with the
> roadies for a long time. Now if they were not able to stand in the saddle, however and had to sit
> and spin all the way, then I would probably beat them to the top. The leg press, puts me into the
> same position as on the lowracer, so naturally my legs are delveloped for this position now. I got
> out on a long straight flat road last weekend with no wind and was able to hold 29.5 mph by myself
> for 17 minutes until I ran out of road. Of course my heartrate was at 169 bpm with probably near a
> 280 watt output. I'm not saying all bents are optimized for hills at all. I'm saying my legs and
> bike are optimized now. Its pretty much a mental thing also. I just tell myself that those roadies
> will not beat me to the top. Once a roadie has to stand on the pedals, they usually don't
> accelerate too much from that point. I usually do a bit higher gear and mash my way up trying to
> let the aerodynamics help me out a bit. Its all about maintaining momentum and enduring pain.
> Remember, the faster you get to the top, the sooner the pain is over. Where I ride in the Metro
> park system on the roads, I'm pretty much the fastest thing out there now, unless of course Frank
> Geyer shows up on his Jester. He is my competition now. I haven't had a chance to ride yet with
> the other fast riders like Alan Ariel or Ed Gin. John Foltz is a heck of a hill climber also on
> his baron. He gave the guys on the Dalmac tour last year a pretty good hurting on the hills. I
> also heard rumour that he did very well on the Hilly Hundred ride. I probably would not choose the
> baron for any mountain type riding..........mainly not due to the fact of going up, but the scary
> thought of going down.

don't count on leg presses making you faster on your bike. before my back gave out, i worked out in
a gym with guys that squatted 500+ and leg pressed the whole stack (which is a lot more than any
home press machine). of course, most of them were on "the juice", too. they couldn't ride a bicycle
worth a damn and would be lucky to make it up my driveway. we are all duly impressed with your speed
and feats of braggadacio. it's lucky you weren't riding back in the late 60s and
70s. it would have broken eddy merckx's heart to have you passing him all the time in the alps.
 
"CK197" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hello, I'm thinking of getting into cycling to alleviate the boredom I get from traditional forms
> of exercise. Since cycling seems to be more fun, I would like to know if there are any websites
> that highlight the differences between recumbent and traditional bikes, the pros and cons, what
> type to buy, etc. Any help would be appreciated.

Ask yourself some questions:

What do you want from cycling? Are you highly competitive, and want to race? Do you just want to
have fun and get fit? Do you want to ride alone, or in groups? Where will you ride? Rail trails?
Highways? Do you want a bike that can double for commuting? Intersted in long-distance touring? Do
you get a kick out of high speeds (27 MPH+), or do you like a moderate pace? Will you be riding off
road at all? Do you have any health problems, such as prostatitis, back trouble, neck trouble or
carpal tunnel that would make traditional upright bikes painful or uncomfortable?

These are important questions. Answering them will help to narrow your choices dramatically.
Nowadays, there is a bike for every purpose under the sun. From 20" folding bikes, to tandem road
bikes, to full-suspension MTB's to land-speed-record-class fully-faired recumbents that can hit
50MPH+. (The current record is 80 MPH on a recumbent.)

If you're just getting started, and exercise is your primary goal, and you aren't competitive (ie:
don't care about racing), then a hybrid bike might be a good choice. Personally, I would prefer one
of the flat-handlebar road bikes, like the Bianchi Strada, because it offers a more stretched-out
position than a hybrid.

Personally, I like recumbents, too. My little RANS Rocket is a fantastic bike. On a recumbent, you
are looking up at the sky, instead of down at the ground. It really makes a difference. You can
sometimes get a "magic carpet ride" feeling from riding a recumbent.

Recumbents can be *very* fast, even without strange-looking fairings attached. I hit 31mph on level
ground (for a short sprint) while I was dropping a roadie on an upright bike. I've owned an M5 Low
Racer, which holds 6 world speed and distance records. It was a handful to ride; but man, what a
machine! It was breathtakingly fast; but my "engine" couldn't do it justice. My RANS Rocket is much
more what I needed, and is very versatile, light, inexpensive ($550 used) and pretty fast.

For maximum versatility, I recommend buying a bike with mount points (eyelets) for a rear cargo rack
and/or fenders. Some road bikes have this feature, and it elevates them to a level of versatility
that more expensive bikes can't match.

Though the lightness of a bike seems to be touted as directly proportional to speed, this simply
isn't true. The M5 Low Racer must have weighed 45 lbs; but it is one of the fastest production bikes
on Earth. Don't let a salesperson talk you into spending 2x or 3x more to drop 4 lbs off the bike.
It just doesn't matter. As long as you're in a bike shop, and not at WalMart, you can't make a
mistake. Any of the bikes will work well for a very long time. I prefer lighter bikes, as do most
people, and I'm willing to spend the money for high-end parts. You don't have to do that.

Whatever you do, make sure that the bike you buy fits you, and that you can get it serviced easily.
Make sure that it is what you like. Don't listen to anybody else's criteria but your own. Ride
enough bikes to be able to decide. When you find the one that you fall in love with, buy it. Don't
let price determine your final choice. The right bike will be a joy to ride for a very long time.
That is the most important part.

Best of luck on your search,

Barry Sanders
 
>Recumbents can be *very* fast, even without strange-looking fairings attached. I hit 31mph on level
>ground (for a short sprint) while I was dropping a roadie on an upright bike.

31mph is readily doable for a rider like myself on a diamond frame bike, not for long but for a
ways. Best speed I ever made riding alone on the flat with no tailwind was 38.4 mph on my 1982 Trek
Pro Series with aerobars, aerowheels and a forward seat post. Certainly there are faster DF and
unfaired recumbent riders, but not my guess is that many of em are 50+ years old and wear a size 52
sport coat.

Jon Isaacs
 
"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Recumbents can be *very* fast, even without strange-looking fairings attached. I hit 31mph on
> level ground (for a short sprint) while I was dropping a roadie on an upright bike. I've owned an
> M5 Low Racer, which holds 6 world speed and distance records. It was a handful to ride; but man,
> what a machine! It was breathtakingly fast; but my "engine" couldn't do it justice.

Sandiway Fong did some extensive experimentation with various bents, including the M5 and
Festinas, he didn't find unfaired bents to be faster, nor have many other cyclists. See his web
site for the details.
 
ckaudio1 <[email protected]> wrote:
: to the top. The leg press, puts me into the same position as on the lowracer, so naturally my legs
: are delveloped for this position now.

So bent riders benefit more from leg press than DF riders? Do DF riders benefit from squat more than
bent riders?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
ckaudio1 <[email protected]> wrote:
: hill. So naturally when they have slowed to about 12 mph in their climb, I smoke by them still
: doing 25 mph. If my legs are good and fresh, 25 mph now is the slowest speed I drop to on the
: hill. Once cresting the top, I can hang at 25 mph then accelerate on the long downgrade
: approaching 34 mph. On my DF, I could no way do this, not in a million years of training. I might
: as well be a pro rider if I could do that on a DF.

A wild claim. I demand a theoretical explanation. ;) I suspect ckaudio1 just has far better
conditioning than most local DF riders.

PS. Here .5 mile of 6% hill would classify as "the biggest darned hill I know". We do have
occasional rollers, though :)

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
: Jon: No doubt about folks doing major mileage on DF's. I think the team record for the RAAM is
: still held by folks on a faired Lightning, yes? I believe their time was sub 6 days.

Think so... But team RAAM is very different from solo RAAM. I think you can take turns sleeping etc.

Are race/record results a reliable guide for estimating how fast different bikes are? It would sound
plausible for me, because it eliminates many random factors that figure in in any "I pass most DFs
uphill here" type of statement.

However, some bikes have more riders and better sponsor funding, so they have chances to reach
better results. Also RAAM is very different from shorter efforts. Maybe it requires unusual levels
of physical and mental toughness, with some interference from weather, team and practicality factors
thrown in, so records are more dependent on exceptional individuals and luck than superiority of
bike design?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
: "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
:>
:> Recumbents can be *very* fast, even without strange-looking fairings attached. I hit 31mph on
:> level ground (for a short sprint) while I was dropping a roadie on an upright bike. I've owned an
:> M5 Low Racer, which holds 6 world speed and distance records. It was a handful to ride; but man,
:> what a machine! It was breathtakingly fast; but my "engine" couldn't do it justice.

: Sandiway Fong did some extensive experimentation with various bents, including the M5 and
: Festinas, he didn't find unfaired bents to be faster, nor have many other cyclists. See his web
: site for the details.

Do you mean http://www.neci.nj.nec.com:80/homepages/sandiway/bike/festina/compare.html

?

I recall reading it fairly recently, wasn't the main point that recumbents get good results in
windtunnel and power measurement tests, but in real life you need years of conditioning to your bike
to get the results?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
smokey <[email protected]> wrote:

: this is what i mean, another "we are faster than you" thread.

Yes, it's been degenerating. They've even started to discuss climbing speed ;)

I wonder if the original poster is still interested - or even understands what the heck we are
ranting about :)

: gives a damn, anyway? i'm glad you enjoy your recumbent, and i'm glad all the people you pass
: enjoy their DFs, too. undoubtably i would be one of them, my riding skills still leave a lot to be
: desired. there is one area where i would finish near the top, however; the riders who enjoy their
: bicycles and every day when they are able to ride them. it would be the same if i had a recumbent
: and was able to ride it. ride what you enjoy and respect the other riders and their choice of
: mounts, too!

Enjoy - that's the point. To enjoy you need a good bike. Or at least a bike that isn't
completely awful. Or then you just need to be able to see the big picture, despite your
completely awful bike...

Cycling is a personal quest. It reflects who you are and what made you into the you you are.
Eventually you come to know what you really want, and how to get there. You might become the racer
whose greatest interest is to be faster than any other, and win events.

For a beginner, that might not be relevant. There are very many aspects to cycling - many things to
try, experience, learn. A difference of 1 km/h in speed is huge in a race, but if it comes from
sacrifice of comfort, practicality, safety or budget, it is worthless in all-around riding.

A bent lowracer probably sacrifices something at least in the practicality and budget departments.
Therefore, it doesn't make sense for total beginners in cycling to lose their sleep over it.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
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