red light jumper

[David Martin]

p.k. wrote:
> James Annan wrote:
> >
> > Well it does for me, when cycling. It's as simple as that really -
> > it's a system put in place for the benefit and convenience of
> > motorists and has no place in a cycle-friendly system.
>
> Errm, what about the pedestrian crossing at the lights when they have a
> green man and you ignore the red light?
>
> In Wimbledon town centre I regularly have to be aware of cyclists trundling
> through pelican crossings on red.

Had one knock my 2yo son over in Dundee city centre last year. Not
impressed.

...d

 

[James Annan]

p.k. wrote:
> James Annan wrote:
> >
> > Well it does for me, when cycling. It's as simple as that really -
> > it's a system put in place for the benefit and convenience of
> > motorists and has no place in a cycle-friendly system.
>
> Errm, what about the pedestrian crossing at the lights when they have a
> green man and you ignore the red light?
>
> In Wimbledon town centre I regularly have to be aware of cyclists trundling
> through pelican crossings on red.

Well, I wouldn't try to defend people who cycle fast and recklessly
through crowds. But trundlikng through pelican crossings against a red
light - when there is ample space and time to do so - seems as harmless
as ambling across a road against a red man - again, assuming there is
ample space and time to do so. I just don't see that either of them are
anything to get worked up about. Compared to tuneless whistling and
cold soggy toast, they are mere trivialities.

James

 

[Ian Smith]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 07:40:09 +0100, Tony B <> wrote:
>
> Oh BTW, how do the RAC get a 70% figure from for red light jumpers?

It's 50%. They counted.

In order to demonstarte what evil law-breakers cyclists are they did a
survey of red-light-jumpers. You'll be pleased to know that the RAC
doesn't count it as jumping red if you go through at any time before 3
seconds after the red light appears, but that's a different
discussion.

Anyhow, they picked a few traffic-light junctions in inner city
locations and counted bicycles going through on red during peak
traffic periods. At just one of the locations (in London) they
managed to get _just_ above 50%.

A google for 'RAC foundation red mist' will probably find it.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Richard]

Ian Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 07:40:09 +0100, Tony B <> wrote:
>
>> Oh BTW, how do the RAC get a 70% figure from for red light jumpers?
>
>
> It's 50%. They counted.
>
> In order to demonstarte what evil law-breakers cyclists are they did a
> survey of red-light-jumpers. You'll be pleased to know that the RAC
> doesn't count it as jumping red if you go through at any time before 3
> seconds after the red light appears, but that's a different

ISTR the 3 seconds "grace" only applied for cars. Bicycles were counted
with 0 seconds from red. BICBW.

R.

 

[dkahn400]

Paul - *** wrote:

> You miss my point. What I meant was who cares what someone says
> they saw someone else do? I get fed up reading about the
> sanctimonious do-gooders all bleating about how good they are at
> spotting someone else doing something wrong. It's rare they also
> say, 'oops, I ran a red light myself today, sorry.'

It's an envy thing. They're sitting there trapped in their expensive
shiny MDG and some poor person on a bike simply rides past them leaving
them fuming impotently. They conveniently overlook the huge catalogue
of Highway Code violations they see other motorists performing, and
probably perform themselves, every time they venture out.

--
Dave...

 

[David Hansen]

On 23 Aug 2005 12:37:15 GMT someone who may be Ian Smith
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>A google for 'RAC foundation red mist' will probably find it.

It appears they only put a press release on their web site.

I wonder how they counted cyclists who made their own ASL?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Tim Woodall]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:07:23 +0100,
Tony B <[email protected]> wrote:
> Paul - *** wrote:
>
>> Does it really matter?
>
> yes. The law may well be an ass, but it's all we have between us and the
> jungle. Although I suppose some of the baboons in Burberry would
> rather like a jungle...

Unfortunately, on the roads I usually cycle (commute), removing the
lights would make it much safer for me. I don't know what's been up but
over the last couple of weeks I've seen at least 5 separate sets of
lights not working (not all on the same day). Even the one that is on a
right turn from a minor road onto a main road (where the traffic on the
main road doesn't slow down for the failed lights) was preferable when
the traffic lights weren't working - Instead of riding out from the stop
line where you can't see the traffic on the main road and then having to
stop sharply for the "only just red" brigade you ride up to the point
where you can see and then go when it is safe. Attempting to ride up at
a sensible speed once the lights change results in cars behind you
overtaking on the right to turn left or on the left to turn right (and
at least 50% of the time it's not me filtering to the front - I've been
caught up by other cars because of the red light in the first place)


Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

[Wally]

dkahn400 wrote:

> It's an envy thing. They're sitting there trapped in their expensive
> shiny MDG and some poor person on a bike simply rides past them
> leaving them fuming impotently.

Yep, happens to me every day. There I am, sitting in the queue for the
lights, comfy seat, sooking a Barley Sugar, blue mirrored shades on, Joe
Satriani belting out serious rock on the 200 watt car stereo...

....and some velocipedist comes along, wobbling his way between the cars,
trying to avoid broken glass, potholes and people's door mirrors, and I
think to meself, "I wonder if that sweaty minger on the bike works in an
office? Wonder if they've got a shower? I bet his **** is sore... Hmmm...,
looks like it's gonna rain... Oooh, like this guitar solo - think I'll turn
it up s'more...".


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

 

[Simon Bennett]

Wally wrote:

> Yep, happens to me every day. There I am, sitting in the queue for the
> lights, comfy seat, sooking a Barley Sugar, blue mirrored shades on,
> Joe Satriani belting out serious rock on the 200 watt car stereo...

Joe Satriani [whohellhe?], blue shades, /and/ a Barley Sugar? Easy there
tiger; you're red hot, baby. Yeow!

 

[Badger]

David Martin wrote
> Oh spare me the handwringing and try applying what you actually know
> from the data.

> Don't think red light jumping really rates as far as that goes in terms
> of risk.

> So spare the claptrap about red light jumping being a death wish. It
> doesn't do very much to raise the overall odds. More likely to give the
> guy in the GT40 a heart attack from appoplexy, but hey, that's his
> problem.

Hummm, so you believe a cyclist should be able to say "I've never had a
accident" like a number of drivers I've met/seen, whilst the truth may
be they've caused quite a few by their actions, those caught up in
avoiding them being the victims, the cause getting away scot free....

 

[David Martin]

Badger wrote:
> David Martin wrote
> > Oh spare me the handwringing and try applying what you actually know
> > from the data.
>
> > Don't think red light jumping really rates as far as that goes in terms
> > of risk.
>
> > So spare the claptrap about red light jumping being a death wish. It
> > doesn't do very much to raise the overall odds. More likely to give the
> > guy in the GT40 a heart attack from appoplexy, but hey, that's his
> > problem.
>
> Hummm, so you believe a cyclist should be able to say "I've never had a
> accident" like a number of drivers I've met/seen, whilst the truth may
> be they've caused quite a few by their actions, those caught up in
> avoiding them being the victims, the cause getting away scot free....

Read the rest of the thread. It is about red light jumping being so
dangerous that you are bound to be killed. Which it isn't. Doesn't make
it right though.

I do not condone illegal cycling.

I even walked my bike home from the centre of town tonight (35 mins)
because I ended up going out for supper and hadn't taken the lights. It
would have been a 10 minute ride otherwise.

...d

 

[Wally]

Simon Bennett wrote:

> Joe Satriani [whohellhe?], ...

Bloody good guitarist - does a lot of instrumental stuff wiv great riffs and
solos.


> ... blue shades, /and/ a Barley Sugar? Easy
> there tiger; you're red hot, baby. Yeow!

Good job I didn't mention that the car's a Nissan Micra...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

 

[Jon Senior]

Wally wrote:
> Bloody good guitarist - does a lot of instrumental stuff wiv great riffs and
> solos.

....but tends somewhat towards the soul-less. No doubt about his
technical skills but they seem to be at the expense of decent tunes.

Jon

 

[Geraint Jones]

I'm slightly disappointed that a thread with this subject
turns out not to be about night-time safety clothing.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Geraint Jones
('[email protected]') wrote:

> I'm slightly disappointed that a thread with this subject
> turns out not to be about night-time safety clothing.

<bonzos>
Have you got a red light jumper?
No, but I've got a dark brown overcoat.
</bonzos>

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.

 

[Tony Raven]

Geraint Jones wrote:
> I'm slightly disappointed that a thread with this subject
> turns out not to be about night-time safety clothing.

Is that clothing that protects you from solicitation while cycling round
parts of Soho at night ;-)

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

 

[Marvin]

BrianW wrote:
> No wonder cyclists get a bad name. Sitting at this red light (in my car),
> this cyclist breezed through, literally one second before the right turn
> phase in the opposite direction. A second later and he would most likely
> have been strawberry jam.
>
> He was a local, as he turned off into a residential street a quarter of a
> mile later - after jumping another red light as a bus was about to come out
> from the terminus.
>
> (A6/A523, Rising Sun, Stockport.)
>
> Brian

In a similar vein, Cambridge cyclists hit a new low today - I actually
got shouted at for *not* jumping a red light and holding up the guy
behind me.

He then went on to jump a total of three lights before he got away from
me. I'm hoping his next crash causes him to land on his top tube and
removes him from the gene pool

 

[the.Mark]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Geraint Jones
> ('[email protected]')
> wrote:
>
>> I'm slightly disappointed that a thread with this subject
>> turns out not to be about night-time safety clothing.
>
> <bonzos>
> Have you got a red light jumper?
> No, but I've got a dark brown overcoat.
> </bonzos>

I've got a light red jumper.
--
the.Mark

 

[David Nutter]

On 2005-08-24, Marvin <[email protected]> wrote:

> In a similar vein, Cambridge cyclists hit a new low today - I actually
> got shouted at for *not* jumping a red light and holding up the guy
> behind me.
>
> He then went on to jump a total of three lights before he got away from
> me. I'm hoping his next crash causes him to land on his top tube and
> removes him from the gene pool

It is much better when the red-light jumpers turn out to be slower than
oneself as they often do. Then you can follow them for a while providing
"helpful" advice[1] before burning them off for kicks when you get to a
piece of clear road.

I did that on Monday to some twit on a MTB who passed me with far too little
room to spare while I was gently rolling through some roadworks at the same
speed as the traffic in front. He subsequently found out that a) he wasn't
faster than me and b) wasn't going to get away without being mocked.

Great sport. Tee hee.

Regards,

-david will get chinned one day

[1] "It goes faster if you pedal you know...", "My granny could drop you!"
and "Didn't help much, did it?" (shortly after catching up once the lights
have changed in your favour) are favourites.

 

[Tim Hall]

On 24 Aug 2005 10:31:36 -0700, "Marvin" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>BrianW wrote:
>> No wonder cyclists get a bad name. Sitting at this red light (in my car),
>> this cyclist breezed through, literally one second before the right turn
>> phase in the opposite direction. A second later and he would most likely
>> have been strawberry jam.
>>
>> He was a local, as he turned off into a residential street a quarter of a
>> mile later - after jumping another red light as a bus was about to come out
>> from the terminus.
>>
>> (A6/A523, Rising Sun, Stockport.)
>>
>> Brian
>
>In a similar vein, Cambridge cyclists hit a new low today - I actually
>got shouted at for *not* jumping a red light and holding up the guy
>behind me.

On the Dunwich Dynamo I got told by a Pizza delivery guy on his
_moped_ that I didn't have to stop at red lights. I think he was
miffed I was blocking his way.


Tim