M
Matt B
Guest
Marc Brett wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:42:46 +0100, Matt B
> <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote:
>
>> Marc Brett wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:32:09 +0100, Matt B
>>> <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, "denial" was a bad choice of word. What I meant was, perhaps, more
>>>> like "trivialisation". The tendency to brush aside any criticism, to
>>>> even treat the anti-social actions as acceptable, because others do it
>>>> too. Condemnation is what is required, then when it has been eradicated
>>>> others can be condemned from the moral high ground.
>>> Eradication of anti-social behaviour is impossible. To ask that anybody
>>> wait for it to happen before they can criticise anyone else is to
>>> guarantee their silence forever. Is this really productive? Is this
>>> your aim?
>> No, I'd rather see a cycling group concentrate on cleaning up its own
>> act. By all means discuss other aspects of road safety, such as the
>> risks taken at traffic lights, but do not attempt to use the antics of
>> non-cyclists to bat away criticism of anti-social cyclists.
>
> That is pandering to the wails of the "lycra louts are a menace"
> brigade.
Not at all. It's showing genuine concern for road safety.
> There's nothing wrong in pointing out the
> hysteria-to-actual_danger ratio to get things in perspective.
Agreed, but that doesn't involve other road user types.
> Then the
> true picture would emerge that cyclists actually represent very little
> danger to anyone.
Possibly, but how does highlighting the bad behaviour of other users
impact that?
> Then, one might reasonably conclude, there is very
> little to clean up.
"Perception" and "preconceptions" are a big factors, unfortunately.
> Trivial matters deserve trivialisation.
Not if it damages the chances of achieving the ultimate goal.
> BTW, I saw /loads/ of RLJing cyclists this morning. They were /all/
> courteously letting peds go first or giving them a very wide berth, and
> watching carefully for cross traffic, before enjoying their tiny time
> slice of traffic-free road. Oddly enough, my face didn't turn red and I
> wasn't foaming at the mouth. Isn't that strange?
--
Matt B
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:42:46 +0100, Matt B
> <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote:
>
>> Marc Brett wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:32:09 +0100, Matt B
>>> <"matt.bourke"@nospam.london.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, "denial" was a bad choice of word. What I meant was, perhaps, more
>>>> like "trivialisation". The tendency to brush aside any criticism, to
>>>> even treat the anti-social actions as acceptable, because others do it
>>>> too. Condemnation is what is required, then when it has been eradicated
>>>> others can be condemned from the moral high ground.
>>> Eradication of anti-social behaviour is impossible. To ask that anybody
>>> wait for it to happen before they can criticise anyone else is to
>>> guarantee their silence forever. Is this really productive? Is this
>>> your aim?
>> No, I'd rather see a cycling group concentrate on cleaning up its own
>> act. By all means discuss other aspects of road safety, such as the
>> risks taken at traffic lights, but do not attempt to use the antics of
>> non-cyclists to bat away criticism of anti-social cyclists.
>
> That is pandering to the wails of the "lycra louts are a menace"
> brigade.
Not at all. It's showing genuine concern for road safety.
> There's nothing wrong in pointing out the
> hysteria-to-actual_danger ratio to get things in perspective.
Agreed, but that doesn't involve other road user types.
> Then the
> true picture would emerge that cyclists actually represent very little
> danger to anyone.
Possibly, but how does highlighting the bad behaviour of other users
impact that?
> Then, one might reasonably conclude, there is very
> little to clean up.
"Perception" and "preconceptions" are a big factors, unfortunately.
> Trivial matters deserve trivialisation.
Not if it damages the chances of achieving the ultimate goal.
> BTW, I saw /loads/ of RLJing cyclists this morning. They were /all/
> courteously letting peds go first or giving them a very wide berth, and
> watching carefully for cross traffic, before enjoying their tiny time
> slice of traffic-free road. Oddly enough, my face didn't turn red and I
> wasn't foaming at the mouth. Isn't that strange?
--
Matt B