Red lights, ranting, etc.

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Mike S., Jan 29, 2003.

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  1. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a disturbing trend among the riders I was near. Seems that
    some guys have the mistaken belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.

    What's up with that??

    Please help my understand why an otherwise law-abiding car driver suddenly feels that he/she's not
    bound by the rules of the road just because they're riding a bicycle.

    All I can think of is that those of us riding the same stretch of road on a more or less daily basis
    have to deal with the drivers of the cars that said cyclist just pissed off by running the red light
    in plain view of however many cars are lined up at the light. Next time these drivers are confronted
    by a cyclist doing something ordinary like riding along minding our own business, they may decide to
    take out their frustration on said cyclist.

    If we're trying to get respect and a slice of road, why piss off drivers by doing something as
    stupid as "saving" 30sec to 1min out of your workout by running lights? So you don't keep up your
    average speed. So what? Is it that important that you're willing to risk your (and MY) life for
    another mile an hour?

    On the weekly SDBC ride last Sat. I was honked at by some idiot in Rancho Santa Fe. Seems that I
    wasn't moving out of his way fast enough. As a note, RSF is fairly "rural" the road was two lanes,
    no center stripe, with trees in the way of visibility on both sides of the road. He wanted to pass
    me around a blind corner, endangering both himself, the possible oncoming driver, me, and the guy
    that I was riding with. Best of all, he turned right onto his street not 50-100m from where he
    passed me! All I could think was: if I were driving a tractor, would you have gone around me around
    a blind corner? The answer was: probably not. Since I'm on a bicycle, I'm fair game for harassment
    'cause I'm "in the way." I didn't cuss at the guy, I didn't flip him the bird, I just shook my head
    and shrugged my shoulders as he turned down his street.

    I wanted to follow him home and try and explain my actions, but I figured I was going to go piss up
    a rope anyway, so I let him drive off.

    I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?

    Mike
     
    Tags:


  2. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:49:24 GMT, <[email protected]>, "Mike S."
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    >courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    >
    >Mike

    I trace it back to the widespread prescription of Prozac and its derivatives. About the same time as
    people started "going postal".
    --
    zk
     
  3. David Storm

    David Storm Guest

    I don't know about around San Diego, but here in Sacramento a biker running a red light gets the
    same fine as a motorist...several hundred dollars. A few cyclists I know were thus zapped. Hard to
    sympathize.

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    > wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a disturbing trend among the riders I was near. Seems that
    > some guys have the mistaken belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.
    >
    > What's up with that??
    >
    > Please help my understand why an otherwise law-abiding car driver suddenly feels that he/she's not
    > bound by the rules of the road just because
    they're
    > riding a bicycle.
    >
    > All I can think of is that those of us riding the same stretch of road on
    a
    > more or less daily basis have to deal with the drivers of the cars that
    said
    > cyclist just pissed off by running the red light in plain view of however many cars are lined up
    > at the light. Next time these drivers are
    confronted
    > by a cyclist doing something ordinary like riding along minding our own business, they may decide
    > to take out their frustration on said cyclist.
    >
    > If we're trying to get respect and a slice of road, why piss off drivers
    by
    > doing something as stupid as "saving" 30sec to 1min out of your workout by running lights? So you
    > don't keep up your average speed. So what? Is it that important that you're willing to risk your
    > (and MY) life for another mile an hour?
    >
    > On the weekly SDBC ride last Sat. I was honked at by some idiot in Rancho Santa Fe. Seems that I
    > wasn't moving out of his way fast enough. As a note, RSF is fairly "rural" the road was two lanes,
    > no center stripe, with trees in the way of visibility on both sides of the road. He wanted to
    pass
    > me around a blind corner, endangering both himself, the possible oncoming driver, me, and the guy
    > that I was riding with. Best of all, he turned right onto his street not 50-100m from where he
    > passed me! All I could think was: if I were driving a tractor, would you have gone around me
    around
    > a blind corner? The answer was: probably not. Since I'm on a bicycle,
    I'm
    > fair game for harassment 'cause I'm "in the way." I didn't cuss at the
    guy,
    > I didn't flip him the bird, I just shook my head and shrugged my shoulders as he turned down
    > his street.
    >
    > I wanted to follow him home and try and explain my actions, but I figured
    I
    > was going to go piss up a rope anyway, so I let him drive off.
    >
    > I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    > courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    >
    > Mike
     
  4. Nyrides

    Nyrides Guest

    Mike:

    Have you been following the thread on Critical Mass? Well, it's turned into yet another discussion
    about exactly what you've just blown off steam about.

    I don't think we can improve our relationship with auto drivers by bashing them over the head with
    massive, day-long, out-of-control protests. I think it's how each and every one of us hot-headed
    cyclists behaves ourselves on the road every day of the week.

    Whenever I see a guy on a $2,000 road bike blow through a light or fly down a major road on the
    wrong side of the street, I get majorly pissed -- almost violent in my thoughts.

    I can't IMAGINE how drivers, especially those who are jealous because they don't own bicycles, feel
    toward guys like that (and subsequently, every OTHER bicyclist on the road) after watching a scene
    like that.

    Don't give up on stopping for red lights, etc. It's the right thing to do. Just look behind
    you before you stop, because, chances are, the yahoo behind you is coming right up your butt
    really fast!
     
  5. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    I run red lights all the time.
    --
    Ron Hardin [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  6. Mike,

    I couldn't agree more with everything you say. We get frustrated at motorists for the bonehead
    things they do then we have to watch our fellow cyclists do things equally as dangerous and
    boneheaded. It only makes things tough for all of us.

    Let me add one thing, regarding your last comment "When did things change?". As a native of
    San Diego who has been cycling in this city for more than 20 years things have always been
    this way, IMO.

    Tom

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<8fWZ9.2134$[email protected]>...
    > I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    > wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a disturbing trend among the riders I was near. Seems that
    > some guys have the mistaken belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.
    >
    > What's up with that??
    >
    > Please help my understand why an otherwise law-abiding car driver suddenly feels that he/she's not
    > bound by the rules of the road just because they're riding a bicycle.
    >
    > All I can think of is that those of us riding the same stretch of road on a more or less daily
    > basis have to deal with the drivers of the cars that said cyclist just pissed off by running the
    > red light in plain view of however many cars are lined up at the light. Next time these drivers
    > are confronted by a cyclist doing something ordinary like riding along minding our own business,
    > they may decide to take out their frustration on said cyclist.
    >
    > If we're trying to get respect and a slice of road, why piss off drivers by doing something as
    > stupid as "saving" 30sec to 1min out of your workout by running lights? So you don't keep up your
    > average speed. So what? Is it that important that you're willing to risk your (and MY) life for
    > another mile an hour?
    >
    > On the weekly SDBC ride last Sat. I was honked at by some idiot in Rancho Santa Fe. Seems that I
    > wasn't moving out of his way fast enough. As a note, RSF is fairly "rural" the road was two lanes,
    > no center stripe, with trees in the way of visibility on both sides of the road. He wanted to pass
    > me around a blind corner, endangering both himself, the possible oncoming driver, me, and the guy
    > that I was riding with. Best of all, he turned right onto his street not 50-100m from where he
    > passed me! All I could think was: if I were driving a tractor, would you have gone around me
    > around a blind corner? The answer was: probably not. Since I'm on a bicycle, I'm fair game for
    > harassment 'cause I'm "in the way." I didn't cuss at the guy, I didn't flip him the bird, I just
    > shook my head and shrugged my shoulders as he turned down his street.
    >
    > I wanted to follow him home and try and explain my actions, but I figured I was going to go piss
    > up a rope anyway, so I let him drive off.
    >
    > I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    > courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    >
    > Mike
     
  7. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > All I can think of is that those of us riding the same stretch of road on a more or less daily
    > basis have to deal with the drivers of the cars that said cyclist just pissed off by running the
    > red light in plain view of however many cars are lined up at the light. Next time these drivers
    > are confronted by a cyclist doing something ordinary like riding along minding our own business,
    > they may decide to take out their frustration on said cyclist.

    > On the weekly SDBC ride last Sat. I was honked at by some idiot in Rancho Santa Fe. Seems that I
    > wasn't moving out of his way fast enough.

    Just a question: who do you think pissed off a driver more? If a driver gets aggressive and acts
    dangerously towards anyone, he/she is entirely at fault. It doesn't matter if they were irritated by
    a lawful or lawless cyclist. The problem with predicting aggressive/hostile reactions from motorists
    towards non law abiding cyclists is that it can start sounding vindictive. I try to leave law
    enforcement to the people who do that for a job, most people don't obey traffic laws out of a sense
    of civic decency anyway, most just fear being caught. Most cops in most locales don't seem to get
    real interested in cyclists running traffic signals, I've had some wave me through red lights
    impatiently, seemingly irritated that I stopped. Whatever, most cyclists also drive, I figure they
    probably drive badly also.
     
  8. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I think there are some reasons for going through a red light. One is that if the raos is a T and the
    entering road is on the left then there is no harm in riding through on the shoulder of the road. If
    your turning left then as soon as the oncoming light turns red then the bike should go before green
    to clear the intersection. In europe they have a speacial like for bikes so that they can get out of
    the interection before the cars move.

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    > wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a disturbing trend among the riders I was near. Seems that
    > some guys have the mistaken belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.
    >
    > What's up with that??
    >
    > Please help my understand why an otherwise law-abiding car driver suddenly feels that he/she's not
    > bound by the rules of the road just because
    they're
    > riding a bicycle.
    >
    > All I can think of is that those of us riding the same stretch of road on
    a
    > more or less daily basis have to deal with the drivers of the cars that
    said
    > cyclist just pissed off by running the red light in plain view of however many cars are lined up
    > at the light. Next time these drivers are
    confronted
    > by a cyclist doing something ordinary like riding along minding our own business, they may decide
    > to take out their frustration on said cyclist.
    >
    > If we're trying to get respect and a slice of road, why piss off drivers
    by
    > doing something as stupid as "saving" 30sec to 1min out of your workout by running lights? So you
    > don't keep up your average speed. So what? Is it that important that you're willing to risk your
    > (and MY) life for another mile an hour?
    >
    > On the weekly SDBC ride last Sat. I was honked at by some idiot in Rancho Santa Fe. Seems that I
    > wasn't moving out of his way fast enough. As a note, RSF is fairly "rural" the road was two lanes,
    > no center stripe, with trees in the way of visibility on both sides of the road. He wanted to
    pass
    > me around a blind corner, endangering both himself, the possible oncoming driver, me, and the guy
    > that I was riding with. Best of all, he turned right onto his street not 50-100m from where he
    > passed me! All I could think was: if I were driving a tractor, would you have gone around me
    around
    > a blind corner? The answer was: probably not. Since I'm on a bicycle,
    I'm
    > fair game for harassment 'cause I'm "in the way." I didn't cuss at the
    guy,
    > I didn't flip him the bird, I just shook my head and shrugged my shoulders as he turned down
    > his street.
    >
    > I wanted to follow him home and try and explain my actions, but I figured
    I
    > was going to go piss up a rope anyway, so I let him drive off.
    >
    > I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    > courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    >
    > Mike
     
  9. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    > wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a disturbing trend among the riders I was near. Seems that
    > some guys have the mistaken belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.

    How I feel about observing stop signs, one-way steets, prohibited turns, etc., while on my bike, is
    very context-sensitive.

    If there are motorists who could flatten me or be given an unwelcome scare at my failure to observe
    the rules, I follow the rules. Common courtesy and all, like navigating well-trafficked hallways.

    If the traffic is particularly fast and frenzied or chaotic, I'll clear the roadway altogether and
    keep to the (empty) sidewalk, crossing warily like a pedestrian if necessary.

    At an empty intersection with plenty of visibility, I'll blow through that sucker at speed.
    Just like navigating the hallways of an empty building-- no traffic, no traffic rules. Applied
    common sense.

    Any cyclist who stops at a stop sign at an open, empty country crossroads, for instance, is a
    hopeless case, an irretrievable tool.

    Chalo Colina

    I don't wait for the "walk" signal to cross an empty street either
     
  10. > I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    > courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?

    Mike: It's worse than you think. In the SF Bay Area, it seems that cyclists have taught cars a thing
    or two and now they're running red lights too. They do it century-style... after the light turns
    red, particularly for turn lanes, they just keep on following the car in front of them.

    I hate stop signs and lights as much as the next guy, but what the heck, it does improve your
    sprinting when you have to keep catching up to the group you're riding with! But mostly I stay out
    of the cities and ride roads where there might be a stopsign once every five miles or so, so it's
    not really an issue.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReaction.com
     
  11. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Guest

    On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:42:34 GMT, "NYRides" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Whenever I see a guy on a $2,000 road bike blow through a light or fly down a major road on the
    >wrong side of the street, I get majorly pissed -- almost violent in my thoughts.

    So if he was riding a $50.00 Schwin it wouldn't bother you?

    And how does one get "almost violent" in their thoughts?

    And why should anyone care if you get "majorly pissed"?

    Sparhawk
     
  12. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    <Any cyclist who stops at a stop sign at an open, empty country crossroads, for instance, is a
    hopeless case, an irretrievable tool.> Hell, I don't stop in my truck at country stop signs. Slow
    down, look both ways, then proceed if clear.

    My parents live out in the sticks in VA. I got to ride a bunch of rides out even further in the
    country. Sometimes on 3+ hour rides I'd see maybe 2-3 cars.

    I agree with the "context sensitive" comment from somewhere else in this thread. Problem is: the 101
    up and down the coast has a lot of traffic on it most of the time, leaving lines of aggravated
    drivers watching idiot cyclists run red lights. The way it seems to work: cars get stopped at a
    light, bike goes up the bike lane to the light, cars go, bikes go, cars get stopped at a light,
    bikes go up the bike lane to the light, etc. If we add that the bike is actually jumping the lights,
    can you see how much more aggravated the drivers get?

    Mike

    "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it
    was
    > > cool enough to have to wear arm and knee warmers) and noticed a
    disturbing
    > > trend among the riders I was near. Seems that some guys have the
    mistaken
    > > belief that they can run red lights on their bicycles.
    >
    > How I feel about observing stop signs, one-way steets, prohibited turns, etc., while on my bike,
    > is very context-sensitive.
    >
    > If there are motorists who could flatten me or be given an unwelcome scare at my failure to
    > observe the rules, I follow the rules. Common courtesy and all, like navigating well-trafficked
    > hallways.
    >
    > If the traffic is particularly fast and frenzied or chaotic, I'll clear the roadway altogether and
    > keep to the (empty) sidewalk, crossing warily like a pedestrian if necessary.
    >
    > At an empty intersection with plenty of visibility, I'll blow through that sucker at speed.
    > Just like navigating the hallways of an empty building-- no traffic, no traffic rules. Applied
    > common sense.
    >
    > Any cyclist who stops at a stop sign at an open, empty country crossroads, for instance, is a
    > hopeless case, an irretrievable tool.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
    >
    > I don't wait for the "walk" signal to cross an empty street either
     
  13. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    See one of my other posts in this thread. Parents live in the sticks. Man, I miss that. I don't
    however miss the hour + drive out there every day...

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists
    and
    > > drivers do. Has common courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When
    did
    > > things change?
    >
    > Mike: It's worse than you think. In the SF Bay Area, it seems that cyclists have taught cars a
    > thing or two and now they're running red
    lights
    > too. They do it century-style... after the light turns red, particularly for turn lanes, they just
    > keep on following the car in front of them.
    >
    > I hate stop signs and lights as much as the next guy, but what the heck,
    it
    > does improve your sprinting when you have to keep catching up to the group you're riding with! But
    > mostly I stay out of the cities and ride roads where there might be a stopsign once every five
    > miles or so, so it's not really an issue.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReaction.com
     
  14. On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:18:15 -0500, David Storm wrote:

    > I don't know about around San Diego, but here in Sacramento a biker running a red light gets the
    > same fine as a motorist...several hundred dollars. A few cyclists I know were thus zapped. Hard to
    > sympathize.

    Naw. Impossible to sympathize. I'd like to see more of that here, but then, in Philadelphia even
    drivers get away with running red lights. Until they hit someone.
    >
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> I was riding up the 101 here in San Diego yesterday. (as an aside, it was cool enough to have to
    >> wear arm and knee warmers)

    Gee, that's tough.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) |
     
  15. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Bob wrote:

    > I think there are some reasons for going through a red light. One is that if the raos is a T
    > and the entering road is on the left then there is no harm in riding through on the shoulder of
    > the road.

    If you do just that in Portola Valley, CA (a stop sign, not a stop light), be prepared to pay the
    fine. And it's not cheap, either ($100+).

    Don't do the infraction if you can't pay for court action.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:49:24 GMT, <[email protected]>, "Mike S."
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >I'm constantly amazed at some of the bullshit stuff that both cyclists and drivers do. Has common
    > >courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    > >
    > >Mike
    >
    > I trace it back to the widespread prescription of Prozac and its derivatives. About the same time
    > as people started "going postal".

    1966?

    http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuilding/news/reopen/nytimes111798.html

    The Clock Tower shooting.

    A member of my family takes an SSRI. "Changed their life" wouldn't be too strong a statement. No
    signs of postal behaviour so far.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  17. Nyrides

    Nyrides Guest

    >>>So if he was riding a $50.00 Schwin it wouldn't bother you?<<<

    I knew somebody would take issue with that comment. The point was, if a guy has a really nice bike
    and all the bells and whistles that go with it, I usually assume he has respect for everything about
    cycling, including the rules of the road. (Cont'd)

    >>>And how does one get "almost violent" in their thoughts?<<<<

    Use your imagination, man....Unless your only purpose here is to let out your anger on me.

    >>>And why should anyone care if you get "majorly pissed"?<<<<

    OK...now I realize I just wasted my time responding to this one.
     
  18. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:27:04 -0800, <[email protected]>, Ryan Cousineau
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > Has common courtesy gone the way of the dodo bird? When did things change?
    >> >
    >> >Mike
    >>
    >> I trace it back to the widespread prescription of Prozac and its derivatives. About the same time
    >> as people started "going postal".
    >
    >
    >1966?
    >
    >http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuilding/news/reopen/nytimes111798.html
    >
    >The Clock Tower shooting.

    That was an unprecedented occurrence at the time and exactly is why it's still talked about.

    Think of the greater number of "postal" incidents which have happened since 1987 compared to the
    period between 1966 and '87

    The first SSRI to be released was Prozac in January of 1988. Since then we have had Zoloft, Paxil,
    Luvox and Celexa. The time frame for these new drugs is exactly the same as the time frame for the
    7% rise each year in "road rage".

    A quick google on _road rage prozac_ turns up some scary stuff.

    In his book, "Talking Back to Prozac" Peter Breggin, MD, says, "At my request, Bonnie Leitsch, then
    director of the national Prozac Survivors Support Group, summarized all the reports coming into the
    organization during 1991 & 1992. The information covered 288 individuals who had adverse reactions
    to Prozac during those two years." It continues, " The vast majority were related to violence
    against self or others (pages 138 & 139)." The book continues, " there were 133 cases of crime and
    violence, including 14 murders ( 6 by car), 39 violent actions (8 in cars), 54 violent
    preoccupations (5 in cars), " etc.

    Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D. in her book, "Prozac: Panacea or Pandora." "A court appointed psychiatrist to
    the Gail Ann Ransom case, Dr.James Missett, soon discovered that Prozac had more to do with Gail's
    actions than he had felt possible before learning what he had from this case. As curiosity set in,
    Dr. Missett called in the 30 to 40 patients he had on Prozac. Armed with his newly acquired insight
    into the behaviors induced by the drug, he began interviewing his own patients with more pointed and
    deeply probing questions. He reportedly quickly discontinued the use of Prozac in two patients who
    admitted feelings of wanting to hurt or take the life of someone close to them. Then he discovered
    an additional aspect the patients were sharing with him - he had five patients wanting to ram cars
    on the freeway, and all had been given tickets for irrational driving and speeding. As soon as Dr.
    Missett was able to meet with Gail's fiancee, he questioned him about Gail's driving. Yes, her
    experience had been the same. In fact, on her way to murder her mother, Gail was stopped and given a
    ticket for speeding."
    >
    >A member of my family takes an SSRI. "Changed their life" wouldn't be too strong a statement. No
    >signs of postal behaviour so far.

    The majority of persons respond well although only marginally better than those taking placebos.

    With more than 36 million people in the US prescribed these drug, there are undoubtedly numerous
    individuals who do react badly. They're the ones who get the media and court attention. When things
    do go wrong, their use of the drug is brought up frequently by defence attorneys.

    Note: If you (or anyone you know) take these medications and are doing well on them, then do not be
    alarmed by this message. Never discontinue any medication on your own. Always consult your
    physician.
    --
    zk
     
  19. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    NYRides wrote:
    > I knew somebody would take issue with that comment. The point was, if a guy has a really nice bike
    > and all the bells and whistles that go with it, I usually assume he has respect for everything
    > about cycling, including the rules of the road.

    Serious cyclists put playing cards in their spokes so motorists know they're really vehicles.
    --
    Ron Hardin [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  20. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    I'll answer that one. YES, if he were riding a $50 Schwinn it would still bother me. Reason being
    drivers can't seem to tell the freds from those of us on nicer bikes. This is especially true when
    they're blowing past you at twice your speed.

    Mike "NYRides" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >>>So if he was riding a $50.00 Schwin it wouldn't bother you?<<<
    >
    > I knew somebody would take issue with that comment. The point was, if a
    guy
    > has a really nice bike and all the bells and whistles that go with it, I usually assume he has
    > respect for everything about cycling, including the rules of the road. (Cont'd)
    >
    > >>>And how does one get "almost violent" in their thoughts?<<<<
    >
    > Use your imagination, man....Unless your only purpose here is to let out your anger on me.
    >
    > >>>And why should anyone care if you get "majorly pissed"?<<<<
    >
    > OK...now I realize I just wasted my time responding to this one.
     
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