What do you do when people cruise past you when you're stopped at a red light, patiently waiting for it to go green?
Its none of my business. Its no ones business to lecture someone on the rights and wrongs of the road unless (a) they ask for your opinion or (b) they are a cop, or (c) you have lived the life of a convent monk/nun and never thought sinful thoughts or taped a show off tv.
Applying Reductio ad absurdum[1] to this position suggests that if you saw someone repeatly running over a child in the street with a RAV4 you would not intervene because you're not a cop, the driver doesn't look like they're interested in what you think, and once you borrowed a pen from work and never gave it back.
"Tops! The world needs more people like you! They really make the world a better place for all of us!"
byron27 <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
I think that a bike weighing under 100kg total going through a red light at 30kph will do a whole less damage than a car or truck, weighing upwards of 1000kg, going at 60kph+. In fact, really, the only person to be hurt if a bike runs the red is generally going to be the cyclist themselves, in which case "tough luck".
Except that most drivers will react in some way to avoid killing somebody, usually by swerving. Have you ever seen the aftermath of an accident where a driver has swerved to avoid a kid running into the road? (substitute "red light running cyclist" or any other mobile hazard) I've seen it once, it was nasty (but not fatal) and triggered off a conversation with a paramedic friend and her fireman boyfriend. They could remember numerous occassions when one or more fatality has been caused by such mobile hazards, often with the mobile hazard going relatively unharmed themself. But then again, as you say, that's just "tough luck".
2. What do you do when people cruise past you when you're stopped at a red light, patiently waiting for it to go green?
I personally don't run red lights and have a tendencey to scream at people who do... this morning, however, myself and another roadie were sitting at the lights just as you come off the Indooroopilly Bridge (heading towards UQ) when an older lady on a touring bike with panniers cruised straight past us. Despite waiting probably 2 minutes for the light, I passed her about 1km ahead and said to her "You represent a lot of people when you run red lights - not a good idea". Not sure what her response was (was wearing headphones), but I hope she takes it in...
I used to quite regularly; even collected a couple of tickets for it! Now I don't exactly "run" them. I stop, then if it is a left turn I will walk around the corner then go again. Same with ped crossings etc. I stop, then walk with the peds. Both these avoid the hazardous start when bikes and cars start off together when the lights turn green.
Peter
-- If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or good -- will ever happen to you.
Everyone is an ambassador for the things they do. The more of them that realise it, the better off we all are.
Cyclists are a minority. The majority (in this case car drivers) ascribe attributes to all the cyclist minority based on observed attributes in a very small number of individual members of the minority group. Called stereotyping. Built into the human cognitative system.
Illustration - ethnic minority groups...All Greeks are..... or All Aboriginals are..... etc
Illustration - professions, trades etc....All lawyers.... All plumbers....etc
We are stuck with the actions of a few colouring the perceptions of many
I treat red lights the way they were originally intended - as per a stop sign. If the way is entirely clear, I then proceed. I think there's nothing more idiotic than waiting for a light to change colour on a road entirely devoid of traffic. If you're still feeling guilty, walk your bike across.
byron27 <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
I think that a bike weighing under 100kg total going through a red light at 30kph will do a whole less damage than a car or truck, weighing upwards of 1000kg, going at 60kph+. In fact, really, the only person to be hurt if a bike runs the red is generally going to be the cyclist themselves, in which case "tough luck".
Except that most drivers will react in some way to avoid killing somebody, usually by swerving. Have you ever seen the aftermath of an accident where a driver has swerved to avoid a kid running into the road? (substitute "red light running cyclist" or any other mobile hazard) I've seen it once, it was nasty (but not fatal) and triggered off a conversation with a paramedic friend and her fireman boyfriend. They could remember numerous occassions when one or more fatality has been caused by such mobile hazards, often with the mobile hazard going relatively unharmed themself. But then again, as you say, that's just "tough luck".
Graeme
Gee Graeme, you make it sound like people blindly ride through these red lights with barely a care in the world, and without even looking. Whilst I almost always stop at red lights (like Dutchy, 99.9% of the time), I quite often used to cross one particular street *against the pedestrian red* <OMG!> near the end of my commute. The Perth guys will know the intersection where the Mitchell Freeway and Spring Street meet Mounts Bay Road. There is a brief time after the light for the freeway offramp goes red that you can scoot across from the bike path and merge with the flow of traffic going east on Mounts Bay Road (not hard at peak hour) without any danger of getting run over by cross traffic.
I have to admit that I agree somewhat with Suzy's comments. Deep down, whether it's an elitist thing or not, I think that cyclists should be exempt from certain road rules as an incentive to cycle. Of course, here in Perth, we are not even allowed to turn left at red lights like you can (or at used to be able to) do in Sydney.
hippy> See my 12:02 post in 'Some Kind of Monster' 🙂 and add "Red hippy> means stop, [censored]".
I tried that tactic (sans [censored]) this morning as I passed a lady who'd cruised through a red past me. Next red she stopped, turned around and said "who died and made you God?"
My retort, "You're the one breaking the law and you're asking me that?"
Anyway, I don't really care what "typical drivers" think of me. IME, it is a tiny, tiny fraction of motorists who do anything that's really dangerous, deliberately - so tiny as to be not worth getting stressed about. So long as they're not acting on their narrow minded prejudices then why care what they think of you?
As for fixing it, mutual respect and courtesy would do the job I reckon.
Exactly! And most people see respect for the rules that we are all subject to as part of this. Not the only thing, but a key part.
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It's a shame LOTS of people can't seem to manage it.
whether it's an elitist thing or not, I think that cyclists should be exempt from certain road rules as an incentive to cycle. Of course, here in Perth, we are not even allowed to turn left at red lights like you can (or at used to be able to) do in Sydney.
We are, but how differs between jurisdiction and then there's drivers awareness. A few weeks back, I had a driver absolutely go off when I legally overtook on the left at the (red) lights. He never bothered to indicate left! Of course, try and find this the glossy drivers handbook. You have to refer to the ACT legislation.
Anyway, I don't really care what "typical drivers" think of me. IME, it is a tiny, tiny fraction of motorists who do anything that's really dangerous, deliberately - so tiny as to be not worth getting stressed about. So long as they're not acting on their narrow minded prejudices then why care what they think of you?
As for fixing it, mutual respect and courtesy would do the job I reckon.
Exactly! And most people see respect for the rules that we are all subject to as part of this. Not the only thing, but a key part.
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It's a shame LOTS of people can't seem to manage it.
Can you? (I ask myself this question too)
Cheers Peter
I try, and I think I'm successful most of the time, but I guess we all momentary lapses of reason from time to time. I don't generally get people abusing me so I don't think I'm upsetting anyone else 🙂
I try, and I think I'm successful most of the time, but I guess we all momentary lapses of reason from time to time. I don't generally get people abusing me so I don't think I'm upsetting anyone else 🙂
-- Nick
oh yeah? you !^@^#^$ fix$& ri#*$! you wouldnt k#&$^% a #$**%^)&😉& if you rode into it! 😠 :eek: 😕 🙄 😎 😄 😉 :p
oh! er, sorry. ... and now, for something completely different...
F " you gotta fiiiiight fer yaw riiiight to Baaaaaarrrgy! " Dutch
"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
NoZX6R said:
I try, and I think I'm successful most of the time, but I guess we all momentary lapses of reason from time to time. I don't generally get people abusing me so I don't think I'm upsetting anyone else 🙂
-- Nick
oh yeah? you !^@^#^$ fix$& ri#*$! you wouldnt k#&$^% a #$**%^)&😉& if you rode into it! 😠 :eek: 😕 🙄 😎 😄 😉 :p
oh! er, sorry. ... and now, for something completely different...
F " you gotta fiiiiight fer yaw riiiight to Baaaaaarrrgy! " Dutch
FD, you seem to have 'issues' today. Push the keyboard aside, take a step outside into the garden... sooooth down, smell the roses. Now you can work off all that aggression on the commute home with some interval training.
oh yeah? you !^@^#^$ fix$& ri#*$! you wouldnt k#&$^% a #$**%^)&😉& if you rode into it! 😠 :eek: 😕 🙄 😎 😄 😉 :p
Blue pills, Dutchy, blue pills.
Cheers,
Suzy (much happier now she's ordered a pile of nice Columbus Zona (and Genius!) tubes, and some Henry James lugs - isn't retail therapy great!)[/QUOTE]
Blue Pills?
Is that like Christian Slater's line in Heathers... "Drink 'Big Blue' here. it'll cure all your woes" (saying as he held up a bottle of draino)
It's more a "that Dutchy, he's such a nice young lad", and then I read a terrible stream of obscenities 😉 and figure you must have forgotten to take your pills.
