Red Lights - What do you do?

[NoZX6R]

Tamyka Bell wrote:
> LotteBum wrote:
>
>>A couple of Questions:
>>
>>1. Do you run red lights?
>>
>>2. What do you do when people cruise past you when you're stopped at a
>>red light, patiently waiting for it to go green?
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> I don't run red lights because I'm a road user and I'd be pretty ******
> off if the cars started running red lights.
>
> Also I like the opportunity to chat to the people in their cars, give
> 'em a big grin and say g'day, try to make them smile. It's nice to make
> yourself memorable. Next time some cyclist is slowing them down they'll
> get annoyed and then go "but that chicky in the pink was so friendly..."
> and maybe be a bit more forgiving.
>
> TangoBravo

"cars started running red lights"

What paradise is it where you live?????

Here in Melbourne I see cars running reds every single day. Although
that's in the cbd so Im probably getting more than my fair share because
of the volume of traffic and smallish intersections.

--
Nick

 

[Theo Bekkers]

"byron27" wrote
> >>Do you run red lights?
>
> selectively. My theory, which of course some people will think is
> balderdash,

Yes

> is that a red light means stop for a car and caution for a
> bike. Yes, we use the same roads so the rules are the same, but does
> this mean that the rules should be the same?. I think that a bike
> weighing under 100kg total going through a red light at 30kph will
do a
> whole less damage than a car or truck, weighing upwards of 1000kg,
going
> at 60kph+. In fact, really, the only person to be hurt if a bike
runs
> the red is generally going to be the cyclist themselves, in which
case
> "tough luck".

I'm stunned. Surely nobody thinks the above is reasoning?

Theo

 

[Tamyka Bell]

NoZX6R wrote:
>
> Tamyka Bell wrote:
> > LotteBum wrote:
> >
> >>A couple of Questions:
> >>
> >>1. Do you run red lights?
> >>
> >>2. What do you do when people cruise past you when you're stopped at a
> >>red light, patiently waiting for it to go green?
> >>
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > I don't run red lights because I'm a road user and I'd be pretty ******
> > off if the cars started running red lights.
> >
> > Also I like the opportunity to chat to the people in their cars, give
> > 'em a big grin and say g'day, try to make them smile. It's nice to make
> > yourself memorable. Next time some cyclist is slowing them down they'll
> > get annoyed and then go "but that chicky in the pink was so friendly..."
> > and maybe be a bit more forgiving.
> >
> > TangoBravo
>
> "cars started running red lights"
>
> What paradise is it where you live?????
>
> Here in Melbourne I see cars running reds every single day. Although
> that's in the cbd so Im probably getting more than my fair share because
> of the volume of traffic and smallish intersections.
>
> --
> Nick

I see more bikes running reds than cars. This is not necessarily
indicative of the actual stats in Brisbane but I've only ever seen a
handful of cars running reds and I see cyclists doing it every time I
ride. Often in peak hour. I don't know why! I understand what some
people are saying about making sure it's safe and let me say that I'd be
happy if we did away with lights altogether and just had to obey road
rules but that really would require paradise to work!

 

[flyingdutch]

1: No. 99.9% of the time (realistic number BTW)

I certainly used to, but getting more involved as a regular commuter and BUG advocacy-ninja has shown me you make your own bed. Showing drivers 'some' of us are twats mean ALL of us get disrespected. I think its pretty hard to whine/dictate to govt/council/drivers that we should get better respect facilities if we arent prepared to apply 'roadlaws' when riding on the road.
I get really ****** when someone rides past me at a red light and the driver next to me glares at me or worse (this has happened quite a few times now. grrrrrr) yells abuse AT ME!!!

Having caught offending rider at (surprise, surprise) next set of lights, i mention "Please dont run the red lights, you just convinced 5 more drivers we all do that!" OR "thanx fella. I just got abused for what YOU did!"
99.9% of the time they apologise profusely. Yet to have someone argue the point, but then again until this morning i had never had another cyclist try and kill me!

 

[Stuart Lamble]

On 2005-04-05, NoZX6R <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipping]
>> Remember,
>> when you ride, you're an ambassador, not just someone who
>> thinks they don't have to play by the rules because it doesn't
>> suit them.
[more snipping]
> Why do you feel represented by all other cyclists?

Because, rightly or wrongly, your typical car driver sees one cyclist
doing something that's against the law, and automatically extrapolates
to "one cyclist does it, therefore all cyclists do too". It's stupid;
it's a fallacy; but it's the way things are. If you have suggestions on
how to fix it, please, feel free to throw them out.

> And I don't generally abuse people because they endanger themselves
> doing things I don't agree with.

The abuse I have for others is in direct proportion to the risk they
pose to others. Not to themselves. My motto is simple: do whatever you
feel is appropriate, as long as you are prepared to accept the
consequences for your actions. It's when *others* have to
(involuntarily) accept those consequences that I get riled.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".

 

[Peter Signorini]

"NoZX6R" wrote:

> Here in Melbourne I see cars running reds every single day. Although
> that's in the cbd so Im probably getting more than my fair share because
> of the volume of traffic and smallish intersections.

Living in Melbourne I also see drivers running red/amber lights. But there
is a far greater _proportion_ of cyclists who run reds, and it's the way
it's done that is so confronting to people - both drivers and concerned
cyclists.

Drivers tend to squeeze the green, by speeding through an amber, or even
catching the red. This is illegal, but can be viewed as pushing the rules.
Cyclists busting a red often do it in busy traffic, riding up to a red that
has been that way for some time, slowing/stopping, then blatantly crossing
the intersection when there's a gap. These are not reckless kids but often
mature roadies, who probably drive a car as well.. How often do you see
drivers pulling up to a red then deciding to proceed on against the red?

It's the blatant disregard for the traffic rules, as opposed to drivers
pushing the envelope, that gets people so riled. What if 70% of drivers
decided to do this on our roads? Would you feel safe? Is it desirable?

There is a point of view in traffic management that suggests that the
removal of all traffic controls may well lead to a better system, annd
greater sese of responsibility. Maybe but I'm still keen to obey the red
light.

Cheers
Peter

 

[Peter Signorini]

"LotteBum" wrote:
>
> 1. Do you run red lights?

In general traffic riding, no. Even late at night I'll try to position the
bike over the sensor loop, or go over to press the button. On my once or
twice a yearly CM ride, yes, rather a lot. But that doesn't really count eh?

> 2. What do you do when people cruise past you when you're stopped at a
> red light, patiently waiting for it to go green?

grumble, grumble. "Oh don't worry about the red light. ********!" fairly
loudly. Not worth much else as such riders are too set in their ways.
Criticism just comes across as craping.

Cheers
Peter

 

[[email protected]]

suzyj wrote:
> LotteBum wrote:
>
> > 1. Do you run red lights?
>
> Yes, but only when I judge it's safe to do so.
>

Thank god most cars drivers don't think the same way. With an attitude
like yours, no wonder Joe Public and Betty Voter think most cyclists
are bandits.

 

[DaveB]

flyingdutch wrote:
> 1: No. 99.9% of the time (realistic number BTW)
>
> I certainly used to, but getting more involved as a regular commuter
> and BUG advocacy-ninja has shown me you make your own bed. Showing
> drivers 'some' of us are twats mean ALL of us get disrespected. I think
> its pretty hard to whine/dictate to govt/council/drivers that we should
> get better respect facilities if we arent prepared to apply 'roadlaws'
> when riding on the road.
> I get really ****** when someone rides past me at a red light and the
> driver next to me glares at me or worse (this has happened quite a few
> times now. grrrrrr) yells abuse AT ME!!!
>
> Having caught offending rider at (surprise, surprise) next set of
> lights, i mention "Please dont run the red lights, you just convinced 5
> more drivers we all do that!" OR "thanx fella. I just got abused for
> what YOU did!"
> 99.9% of the time they apologise profusely. Yet to have someone argue
> the point, but then again until this morning i had never had another
> cyclist try and kill me!
>
>

clears throat ... starts coughing ... COUGH COUGH roundabouts COUGH ...
ends coughing.

DaveB

 

[[email protected]]

byron27 wrote:
> >>Do you run red lights?
>
> selectively. My theory, which of course some people will think is
> balderdash, is that a red light means stop for a car and caution for
a
> bike. Yes, we use the same roads so the rules are the same, but does
> this mean that the rules should be the same?. I think that a bike
> weighing under 100kg total going through a red light at 30kph will do
a
> whole less damage than a car or truck, weighing upwards of 1000kg,
going
> at 60kph+. In fact, really, the only person to be hurt if a bike runs
> the red is generally going to be the cyclist themselves, in which
case
> "tough luck".

Except that when you get crushed by an innocent driver going through
the green, you will give them all sorts of psychological trauma (thats
if you don't end up like a roo through their front windscreen).

If you survive, you're then a burden on the taxpayer and
(green-slip-paying) road user, who's helping you recover from your
horrific injuries.

Wonderful.

 

[flyingdutch]

I have a nice little speech filed away for the next motorist whom stereotypes me for crimes-by-other-cyclists that goes something like this...

"Hey. Are you a bank robber? (insert confused look of driver here)
Well, i once saw video footage of a bank robber getting away in a car, so following your logic of 'all cyclists run red lights' I can therefore conclude that 'all drivers are bankrobbers!!!' (insert image of me riding off thru now turned green light whil driver tries to figure that one out )"

havent used it yet, but please feel free if you feel so inclined.
appropriate Dutchy™ should be footnoted tho...

 

[Bleve]

"typical cyclists ...."

Everyone is an ambassador for the things they do. The more of them
that realise it,
the better off we all are.

 

[suzyj]

duncanmcrae wrote:

> If you survive, you're then a burden on the taxpayer
> and (green-slip-paying) road user, who's helping you
> recover from your horrific injuries.

I dunno, I reckon I'm a good way into credit with medical expenses etc simply by virtue of being a cyclist. No adult-onset diabetes here, nor high blood pressure, nor obesity etc etc etc that seem to be plagueing the rest of the population.

If I get hit by a car (I have actually, but I wasn't doing anything illegal or silly at the time) I'll make use of our hospital services with a free conscience.

Regards,

Suzy

PS: It's all interrelated - red lights, helmets, road rules, and peoples ideas of what to do with each. My own view is that if I'm likely to be the only one injured, then I'll take greater risks (whether by running red lights on my bike or not wearing a helmet) than if I'm likely to cause injury to others. Similarly, if I see people doing things that I perceive as foolhardy (many people see cycling generally as foolhardy) and they're the only ones likely to be hurt, then I figure that it's their own business.

 

[hippy]

NoZX6R wrote:
> Carl Brewer wrote:
>> If it's some generic oaf, depends on my mood
>> If it's Stu, I push him into the gutter.

If I ran reds you wouldn't catch me

> Yeah but he never runs red

Never-ish (those 15+ years when I didn't know any better might not have
been quite kosher.. but I've changed.. )

hippy

 

[flyingdutch]

>> If it's Stu, I push him into the gutter.[/color][/color]

If I ran reds you wouldn't catch me

> Yeah but he never runs red

Never-ish (those 15+ years when I didn't know any better might not have
been quite kosher.. but I've changed.. )

hippy

Hey hip. Im off to do some sprinty-things. good luck with the trip and enjoy. make sure we get regular doses of jealousy-posts and drink the good stuff!

 

[DaveB]

flyingdutch wrote:
>
> Hey hip. Im off to do some sprinty-things.
>
>

Yeah enough about red lights. Wasn't today a great day for a ride. I
managed to get out around lunch for a quick trip to the free freewheel
shop and the day was just perfect for riding - warm, sunny, no wind. Of
course despite all that I still got my bike wet, stupid road works, but
it was such a good ride I didn't care.

DaveB "sunburnt in April"

 

[NoZX6R]

Stuart Lamble wrote:
> On 2005-04-05, NoZX6R <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snipping]
>
>>>Remember,
>>>when you ride, you're an ambassador, not just someone who
>>>thinks they don't have to play by the rules because it doesn't
>>>suit them.
>
> [more snipping]
>
>>Why do you feel represented by all other cyclists?
>
>
> Because, rightly or wrongly, your typical car driver sees one cyclist
> doing something that's against the law, and automatically extrapolates
> to "one cyclist does it, therefore all cyclists do too". It's stupid;
> it's a fallacy; but it's the way things are. If you have suggestions on
> how to fix it, please, feel free to throw them out.
>
<snip>

I spose this is where I disagree then.

Even if your theory is true, so long as there is one cyclist doing the
wrong thing then the "typical driver" will extrapolate that to every
other cyclist. So for a start, it's a pretty hopeless battle I would say.

Anyway, I don't really care what "typical drivers" think of me. IME, it
is a tiny, tiny fraction of motorists who do anything that's really
dangerous, deliberately - so tiny as to be not worth getting stressed
about. So long as they're not acting on their narrow minded prejudices
then why care what they think of you?

As for fixing it, mutual respect and courtesy would do the job I reckon.
It's a shame LOTS of people can't seem to manage it.

--
Nick

 

[hippy]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Hey hip. Im off to do some sprinty-things. good luck with the trip and
> enjoy. make sure we get regular doses of jealousy-posts and drink the
> good stuff!

Hold your horses man.. I'm leaving work (if I ever get out of this
fscking office!!!) but I don't fly out until mid-May. Time to run amok
still..

hippy

 

[GPLama]

DaveB wrote:
> Yeah enough about red lights. Wasn't today a great day for a ride. I
> managed to get out around lunch for a quick trip to the free freewheel
> shop and the day was just perfect for riding - warm, sunny, no wind. Of
> course despite all that I still got my bike wet, stupid road works, but
> it was such a good ride I didn't care.
>
> DaveB "sunburnt in April"

My ride today to work was the best in a long while.. looking forward to
another nice ride home in the dark...while politely informing people on
the path that they cant be seen when IT IS DARK....

*bump* was that a dog?...


cheers,
GPL

 

[Graeme]

suzyj <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Finally, I reckon by not polluting the environment to the same extent
> as the cars, bikes are entitled to some concessions. Selectively
> obeying road rules is one of these.

Bollocks! That's like saying "I plant trees so I can quite happily pump
toxic waste into the waterways". The justification and the concession are
not related in any way. This is part of what really annoys non-cyclists,
the perceived "holier than thou" attitude, but I've seldom seen this
attitude present itself as clearly as it is above.


> Of course, I only ever run the light when I feel it's _safe_ to do so.
> Anyone who gets hit when running a light has only themselves to blame.

Ah well, that's okay then. I'm sure the majority of people who, for
example, drive way over the speed limit only do so when they feel it's
safe. After all, it's only a little law they're breaking isn't it, it's
not like their behaviour affects anyone else?

Graeme