Red Lights

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Eric Shanabrook, May 15, 2003.

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  1. What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights? I do go through some and but not
    others deemed more dangerous. But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some
    bone heads that take risks, I will not ride with them. I think of myself as an ambassador (of a
    sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through lights
    and stop signs?
     
    Tags:


  2. Tbgibb

    Tbgibb Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Eric Shanabrook" <[email protected]> writes:

    >What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights? I do go through some and but
    >not others deemed more dangerous. But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with
    >some bone heads that take risks, I will not ride with them. I think of myself as an ambassador (of
    >a sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through
    >lights and stop signs?

    It is unlawful, dangerous and bad PR as you have suggested. The only exceptions I make are when I
    come to a trip light that won't recognize me and has no pedestrian walk button or when I'm going to
    work at 0530 in the AM and there is NO other traffic in sight. And then I'm very careful about it.

    Tom Gibb <[email protected]
     
  3. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    Eric Shanabrook wrote:
    > What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights? I do go through some and but
    > not others deemed more dangerous. But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with
    > some bone heads that take risks, I will not ride with them. I think of myself as an ambassador (of
    > a sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through
    > lights and stop signs?

    Stop signs, okay. Red lights, no. I always slow down for stop signs. At lights, I always come to a
    stop unless I'm turning right (American).

    At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of stop, while green-light x-traffic is
    going basically full speed. Too much of a risk. And then there's the PR factor.

    If you blow through red lights regularly, I kind of hope you get ticketed.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
    worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
    view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
    prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
     
  4. Mark Wolfe

    Mark Wolfe Guest

    Same here, usually stop, but there are those lights that won't change for a bike, and usually
    there's not a car around to trip it at 5:30 or 6 am in the morning. I treat those like stop
    signs, or a "broken" light as essentially that's what it is. Leaning the bike over and exposing
    the side of the wheel to the sensor sometimes helps, but you can only get so much lean with 1
    foot clipped in. :(

    TBGibb wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, "Eric Shanabrook"
    > <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights? I do go through some and but
    >>not others deemed more dangerous. But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with
    >>some bone heads that take risks, I will not ride with them. I think of myself as an ambassador (of
    >>a sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through
    >>lights and stop signs?
    >
    > It is unlawful, dangerous and bad PR as you have suggested. The only exceptions I make are when
    > I come to a trip light that won't recognize me and has no pedestrian walk button or when I'm
    > going to work at 0530 in the AM and there is NO other traffic in sight. And then I'm very
    > careful about it.
    >
    >
    > Tom Gibb <[email protected]>

    --
    Mark Wolfe http://www.wolfenet.org gpg fingerprint = 42B6 EFEB 5414 AA18 01B7 64AC EF46 F7E6 82F6
    8C71 Also note that i knew _far_ more about the people that call address mungers names like
    'lusers', 'egoists' or try to make luser giraffes. -- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06
     
  5. eric-<< What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights?

    Would you run a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??

    << But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some bone heads that take risks, I
    will not ride with them.

    When you say you run some, you are the bonehead that is taking risks.

    Why intentionally piss some car driver off? They are peeved enough about bicycles on their
    precious roadways.

    << I think of myself as an ambassador (of a sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when
    they see cyclists just blowing through lights and stop signs?

    Then you are a poor one if you run any red light.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Tbgibb

    Tbgibb Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> writes:

    >At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of stop, while green-light x-traffic is
    >going basically full speed.

    Yes, they do "kind of stop" at a 4-way, but it's been my experience that "they" will often ignore
    the bicyclist that can, at worst, only scratch their paint or (shudder) bleed on their windshield.

    I am begining to really dislike 4-ways.

    Tom Gibb <[email protected]
     
  7. Jimp

    Jimp Guest

    I agree that running red lights is both bad PR and dangerous. I have a question for the group on how
    you handle left hand turn lanes on a red light. I used to think that it was safer when there is a
    que in the left hand lane to coast up to a position next to the front right fender of the lead car
    and then wait for the light to turn green. On a few occasions, I received honks and glares from the
    drivers behind the lead car as if I were cutting in line. Now I just que up in line in the middle of
    the lane as if I were a car and all seems right with the world again. Do you do the same?

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > eric-<< What does most of you guys and gals think about running red
    lights?
    >
    > Would you run a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??
    >
    > << But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some bone heads that take risks,
    > I will not ride with them.
    >
    > When you say you run some, you are the bonehead that is taking risks.
    >
    > Why intentionally piss some car driver off? They are peeved enough about bicycles on their
    > precious roadways.
    >
    >
    > << I think of myself as an ambassador (of a sort) for cyclists, because
    what do
    > drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through lights and stop signs?
    >
    > Then you are a poor one if you run any red light.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. Harris

    Harris Guest

    "TBGibb" wrote:

    > Yes, they do "kind of stop" at a 4-way, but it's been my experience that
    "they"
    > will often ignore the bicyclist that can, at worst, only scratch their
    paint or
    > (shudder) bleed on their windshield.
    >
    > I am begining to really dislike 4-ways.

    I agree. You also have to watch for other cyclists (who may not be as visible or audible as a car)
    blasting through the 4-way.

    Art Harris
     
  9. Harris

    Harris Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote:

    > Would you run a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??

    I strongly agree, although I seem to be in the minority in my area. It blows my mind to see
    "serious" cyclists on club rides routinely blowing through red lights. Terrible PR for cycling.

    Art Harris
     
  10. Java Man

    Java Man Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > I agree that running red lights is both bad PR and dangerous. I have a question for the group on
    > how you handle left hand turn lanes on a red light. I used to think that it was safer when there
    > is a que in the left hand lane to coast up to a position next to the front right fender of the
    > lead car and then wait for the light to turn green. On a few occasions, I received honks and
    > glares from the drivers behind the lead car as if I were cutting in line. Now I just que up in
    > line in the middle of the lane as if I were a car and all seems right with the world again. Do you
    > do the same?
    >
    At lower speeds, I take up my spot in the centre of the lane, in the traffic, as though I was
    driving. When the traffic speed picks up so that I begin to slow the flow, I move over to the
    shoulder if the shoulder is wide enough for cars to pass me safely. If not, I move to a different
    route so I can avoid holding up traffic . . . unless there is no alternate route, in which case I
    take up my spot in the centre of the lane.

    Rick
     
  11. Matt Locker

    Matt Locker Guest

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    JimP:

    I queue up behind the car that was last in line when I arrived. Why? Because I will be no slower
    through the light than anyone else and therefore I fit with the traffic flow. If you pull up next to
    him you run a couple risks. 1) He will decide at the last second he really wants to go straight and
    now you are in his way; 2) He will cut you off if you go through the corner together; 3) The guy
    behind him will be POed because you are now in his way and he was there first and rightfully has the
    right of way before you. I'm sure there are other possible outcomes but these are what currently are
    on the mind.

    If you "ride like you drive" while on your bike I believe you will receive more respect on the road
    from other drivers.

    MOO, Matt

    JimP wrote:

    >I agree that running red lights is both bad PR and dangerous. I have a question for the group on
    >how you handle left hand turn lanes on a red light. I used to think that it was safer when there is
    >a que in the left hand lane to coast up to a position next to the front right fender of the lead
    >car and then wait for the light to turn green. On a few occasions, I received honks and glares from
    >the drivers behind the lead car as if I were cutting in line. Now I just que up in line in the
    >middle of the lane as if I were a car and all seems right with the world again. Do you do the same?
    >
    >
    >"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >>eric-<< What does most of you guys and gals think about running red
    >>
    >>
    >lights?
    >
    >
    >>Would you run a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??
    >>
    >><< But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some bone heads that take risks,
    >>I will not ride with them.
    >>
    >>When you say you run some, you are the bonehead that is taking risks.
    >>
    >>Why intentionally piss some car driver off? They are peeved enough about bicycles on their
    >>precious roadways.
    >>
    >>
    >><< I think of myself as an ambassador (of a sort) for cyclists, because
    >>
    >>
    >what do
    >
    >
    >>drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through lights and stop signs?
    >>
    >>Then you are a poor one if you run any red light.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    >>(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >

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    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
    http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body>
    JimP:<br> <br> I queue up behind the car that was last in line when I arrived. Why?
    Because I will be no slower through the light than anyone else and therefore I fit with the
    traffic flow. If you pull up next to him you run a couple risks. 1) He will decide at
    the last second he really wants to go straight and now you are in his way; 2) He will cut you
    off if you go through the corner together; 3) The guy behind him will be POed because
    you are now in his way and he was there first and rightfully has the right of way before you.
    I'm sure there are other possible outcomes but these are what currently are on the mind.<br>
    <br> If you "ride like you drive" while on your bike I believe you will receive more respect on the
    road from other drivers. <br> <br> MOO,<br> Matt<br> <br> JimP wrote:<br> <blockquote
    type="cite" cite="[email protected]"> <pre wrap="">I agree that running red lights is
    both bad PR and dangerous. I have a question for the group on how you handle left hand turn lanes on
    a red light. I used to think that it was safer when there is a que in the left hand lane to coast up
    to a position next to the front right fender of the lead car and then wait for the light to turn
    green. On a few occasions, I received honks and glares from the drivers behind the lead car as if I
    were cutting in line. Now I just que up in line in the middle of the lane as if I were a car and all
    seems right with the world again. Do you do the same?

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in message <a
    class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:[email protected]">news:2003051-
    [email protected]</a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
    wrap="">eric-<< What does most of you guys and gals think about running red </pre>
    </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->lights? </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Would you run
    a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??

    << But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some bone heads that take
    risks, I will not ride with them.

    When you say you run some, you are the bonehead that is taking risks.

    Why intentionally piss some car driver off? They are peeved enough about bicycles on their
    precious roadways.

    << I think of myself as an ambassador (of a sort) for cyclists, because </pre> </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!---->what do </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">drivers think when they see
    cyclists just blowing through lights and stop signs?

    Then you are a poor one if you run any red light.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
    href="http://www.vecchios.com">http://www.vecchios.com</a> "Ruote convenzionali costruite
    eccezionalmente bene" </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->

    </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

    --------------070007020801070306080004--
     
  12. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    "JimP" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Now I just que up in line in the middle of the lane as if I were a car and all seems right with
    > the world again. Do you do the same?

    Yep. In a left turn lane I just take my place in line behind other vehicles, typically in the middle
    of the lane.

    RFM
    --
    To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
     
  13. TBGibb <[email protected]> wrote:
    >In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> writes:
    >>At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of stop, while green-light x-traffic
    >>is going basically full speed.
    >I am begining to really dislike 4-ways.

    Here we do not have them. Instead we tend to have mini-roundabouts, which are another bad solution
    to the problem.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  14. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "JimP" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I agree that running red lights is both bad PR and dangerous. I have a question for the group on
    > how you handle left hand turn lanes on a red light. I used to think that it was safer when there
    > is a que in the
    left
    > hand lane to coast up to a position next to the front right fender of
    the
    > lead car and then wait for the light to turn green. On a few
    occasions, I
    > received honks and glares from the drivers behind the lead car as if I
    were
    > cutting in line. Now I just que up in line in the middle of the lane
    as if I
    > were a car and all seems right with the world again. Do you do the
    same?

    I take a busy left turn home everyday through a typical four-way intersection that I approach in one
    of three ways. If I approach the intersection on a green light, that means that I have missed the
    left-turn signal, so I continue half-way through the intersection, stop and line up with the cross
    traffic (there is a bike lane, so I get in
    it). I will then get to go on the next light. If I approach the intersection on a red light, that
    means then next light will be the left turn, so I either get behind the last car in line if the
    line is not too long, or I go along the right side all the way to the front of the turn lane. I
    am not going to wait two or more cycles to get through the goddamn light. Sorry. BTW, just
    getting across two lanes of traffic to the turn lane is often dicey.

    It is technically illegal under the UVC to pass on the right, so getting to the front is illegal in
    most states -- but it is not unreasonable from a safety standpoint because I am faster off the line
    than cars and usually get through the intersection before the lead-car driver wakes up, puts down
    his cell-phone and starts moving. The traffic on the other side of this particular turn lane also
    stacks up, and if I stay out of the line of traffic, that is one more car that can make it through
    the intersection. People will honk no matter what you do, and probably will honk more if you get
    squarely infront of them in the lane, even if you are going the speed of creeping traffic. Most cops
    tell me to stay out of traffic, even if it means passing on the right -- and the enforcement policy
    in this city is to NOT cite for passing on the right. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  15. [email protected] (TBGibb) writes:

    >It is unlawful, dangerous and bad PR as you have suggested. The only exceptions I make are when I
    >come to a trip light that won't recognize me ...

    I'm surprised that the CPSC hasn't outlawed carbon bikes. My trek 2300 carbon / aluminum bike is
    almost never recognized by the trip sensors in the roads. its imho too dangerous to leave the road
    just to hit a pedestrian crosswalk button. Luckily, when this problem occurs there are generally no
    cars nearby and so its safer to run the light than it normally would be.

    - Don
     
  16. Turtle Funk

    Turtle Funk Guest

    "Eric Shanabrook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<ba1jff$[email protected]>...
    > What does most of you guys and gals think about running red lights? I do go through some and but
    > not others deemed more dangerous. But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with
    > some bone heads that take risks, I will not ride with them. I think of myself as an ambassador (of
    > a sort) for cyclists, because what do drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through
    > lights and stop signs?

    I am a 30+ish year old "renegade" bicycle messenger in Houston. Perhaps the fastest since I am one
    of the few that don't wait at lights. There is one bike police officer in particular that may
    eventually catch me and give me a ticket (not in the last year anyway). If he is reading, I would
    like to tell him that I can only sustain hard efforts for around 10-15 blocks as my heart has
    arrhythmia (I wouldn't want him to give up). Granted he may be doing more important things, and I
    respect him for that.

    Most of the downtown grid in Houston is one-way streets. The best method for going thru a light
    without losing all your speed is to turn in the direction of traffic at the crosswalk so you get a
    full view of the oncoming traffic. If the road is clear or you see a good gap, bank the bicycle 90
    degrees to the other side quick and cross the street. Needless to say, you'll also be looking at
    road surfaces while you do this. If it is raining, your traction is screwed so you'll have to move
    like a granny (no offense to the grannies out there that could kick my ass in a road race... my
    heart goes out to you in admiration :)

    I like the thrill. If I die, I will have died doing something I love, and that is good enough for
    me. Worst thing that could happen is that I live handicapped, a burden to society and unable to do
    my job. Hmmm... in that case, I guess I'll have to work on my computer skills.
     
  17. Matt Locker

    Matt Locker Guest

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    Dave:

    I call these "Traffic Pimples"!

    MOO, Matt

    David Damerell wrote:

    >TBGibb <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>>At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of stop, while green-light x-traffic
    >>>is going basically full speed.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>I am begining to really dislike 4-ways.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Here we do not have them. Instead we tend to have mini-roundabouts, which are another bad solution
    >to the problem.
    >
    >

    --------------040606090204070809030604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
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    Dave:<br> <br> I call these "Traffic Pimples"!<br> <br> MOO,<br> Matt<br> <br> David Damerell
    wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="midfUo*[email protected]"> <pre
    wrap="">TBGibb <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
    wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a>, Raptor <a
    class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> writes: </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of
    stop, while green-light x-traffic is going basically full speed. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">I
    am begining to really dislike 4-ways. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> Here we do not have
    them. Instead we tend to have mini-roundabouts, which are another bad solution to the problem.
    </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

    --------------040606090204070809030604--
     
  18. Spacey Spade

    Spacey Spade Guest

    David Damerell wrote:
    >TBGibb <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> writes:
    >>>At (4-way) stop signs, the cross traffic will at least kind-of stop, while green-light x-traffic
    >>>is going basically full speed.
    >>I am begining to really dislike 4-ways.
    >
    >Here we do not have them. Instead we tend to have mini-roundabouts, which are another bad solution
    >to the problem.

    I personally much prefer a roundabout to a 4 way stop sign, especially on a bike or motorcycle.
     
  19. "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > eric-<< What does most of you guys and gals think about running red
    lights?
    >
    > Would you run a red light in a car? Why is a bicycle on a roadway any different??
    >
    > << But I do have a problem with it generally. I have ridden with some bone heads that take risks,
    > I will not ride with them.
    >
    > When you say you run some, you are the bonehead that is taking risks.
    >
    > Why intentionally piss some car driver off? They are peeved enough about bicycles on their
    > precious roadways.
    >
    >
    > << I think of myself as an ambassador (of a sort) for cyclists, because
    what do
    > drivers think when they see cyclists just blowing through lights and stop signs?
    >
    > Then you are a poor one if you run any red light.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    Peter your are absolutely right!

    It is just that I have seen so much red light running, that I wanted to bounce it off the bicycling
    community here. And yes...I have transgressed, forgive me.
     
  20. Turtle Funk

    Turtle Funk Guest

    "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected].com>... [cut]
    > I take a busy left turn home everyday through a typical four-way intersection that I approach in
    > one of three ways. If I approach the intersection on a green light, that means that I have missed
    > the left-turn signal, so I continue half-way through the intersection, stop and line up with the
    > cross traffic (there is a bike lane, so I get in
    > it). I will then get to go on the next light. If I approach the intersection on a red light, that
    > means then next light will be the left turn, so I either get behind the last car in line if the
    > line is not too long, or I go along the right side all the way to the front of the turn lane. I
    > am not going to wait two or more cycles to get through the goddamn light. Sorry. BTW, just
    > getting across two lanes of traffic to the turn lane is often dicey.
    >
    > It is technically illegal under the UVC to pass on the right, so getting to the front is illegal
    > in most states -- but it is not unreasonable from a safety standpoint because I am faster off the
    > line than cars and usually get through the intersection before the lead-car driver wakes up, puts
    > down his cell-phone and starts moving. The traffic on the other side of this particular turn lane
    > also stacks up, and if I stay out of the line of traffic, that is one more car that can make it
    > through the intersection. People will honk no matter what you do, and probably will honk more if
    > you get squarely infront of them in the lane, even if you are going the speed of creeping traffic.
    > Most cops tell me to stay out of traffic, even if it means passing on the right -- and the
    > enforcement policy in this city is to NOT cite for passing on the right. -- Jay Beattie.

    I just assume I am invisible in traffic and ignore honking (unless I sense a driver ready to hit me
    on purpose... I imagine that happens a lot in NYC). To the contrary of what I just said, I do make
    myself as visible in traffic as I can. In downtown streets where (most) traffic doesn't go over
    35-45mph on the one-way streets (gee... I don't even remember what the speed limit is hahahaha), I
    ride in one of the center lanes. I find the center lanes to be safer than the outer lanes. I also
    don't assume I am invisible when I look at a driver and find they are looking at me... then, for
    example, I'll change into the lane in front of them for an upcoming turn, or for a vehicle that
    provides a good draft.
     
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