REI Safari or Surly Long haul Trucker?



D

datakoll

Guest
On Mar 30, 5:21 pm, daveornee <[email protected]
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> datakoll Wrote:> A RARE OPPORTUNITY two honest wheel builders in the same place at...
>
> > Alex 18 are harder, less ductile than Sun Rhyno/CR

>
> > do yawl see a difference in trueing a hole bent rim-for the group 2
> > wheelbuilder ?????

>
> > on the race teams (to which the above question should be directed but
> > not answered) the upper limits of bang-bend are in racing. A NO BEND
> > rim is better than a lighter sometimes bend rim. AND OFF COURSE the
> > eyelet question is irrelevant to a racer. In fact racers using Alex
> > rim is irrelevant to the Trekker, is it snot?

>
> > BTW- what are messengers using? whatever they can steel ?

>
> Race teams provide feedback to sponsors and ask for things to change in
> the directions they feel are valuable.  Relevance to a Trekker isn't
> something I can easily evaluate, but I think the exposure in both
> directions does some good.
> I agree with Chalo's explanations on the values of heavier and stiffer
> rims.  I would add that Alex rims like DM 18 and Adventurer seem to last
> longer when subjected to the normal abrasion from braking.
> I have built with every available brand and most available models out
> there.   My most recent good results for over 1,000 wheels came from
> Velocity USA.  
> I don't have good long term results with reshaping rims once they have
> been plastically deformed, thus I consider ductility something of little
> or no worth to me.  I have used Sun CR18, Rhyno Lite, Rhyno, and other
> versions of Sun rims with mixed results.  Fortunately, Sun rims were
> relatively inexpensive and none were DOA out of the box as I have
> experienced with a few other manufacturer's products.
> I have built many wheels for Chicago messengers.  Velocity Deep V seems
> to be the favorite, especially for single speed and/or Fixie riders.
> Chicago messengers that I deal with who favor wider tires seem to be
> split between Velocity Dyad or Velocity Synergy (now available with OC
> for rear multispeed and/or disc applications).
>
> --
> daveornee


as a Sun rider: what are "mixed results" ?

Is a plastically deformed rim-a state the owner/builder deals with-
more responsive to retrue with an alloy more ductile more malleable
more plastic than a harder alloy?

I undertand what Chalo is writing: metals' characteristics bring each
rim into being but are not defined without tests at limits beyond the
metals intended use.

Yet in designing an ideal wheel-to sell, continue selling, and profit
from-there is an ideal alloy.
maybe, maybe not or somewhere inbetween.

last Sun rims bought for my 29er Monodog are from Universal Cycles,
nicely packed and round round. I was relieved taht's fersure as yes MO
rims are not always.
 
D

datakoll

Guest
anyone for rim science?

from the flat, 1200 rortating wheel grams up 300 grams from the
flatlanders' 900 rotating gram weight gives what grade ?

I've read this equation interms of "when do we arrive at Elysian
Fields State Park" but the source eludes.
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> I'm back. As an example: steel rims true waaaaay easier than aluminum
> rims. This is snot due to the metal's characteristics but ? tidal
> effects? The Ides of March?


The Earth's magnetic field affects the steel rim, but not the aluminium
alloy rim.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> recumbent


Inline wheelchair.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
datakoll wrote:
> I'm back. As an example: steel rims true waaaaay easier than aluminum
> rims. This is snot due to the metal's characteristics but ? tidal
> effects? The Ides of March?


Sure, generally much more flexible, hence more responsive to your
efforts. But less likely to stay straight after riding/abuse.

Some steel rims (Chicago Schwinns, Panasonic Sport) were overbuilt
behemoths which could be ridden/punished over an amazing life. Quite
hefty of course compared to aluminum rims, and dismal braking for the bonus.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:
>
> forget gravity?
>

The secret to flying - when you fall towards the ground you must miss it!

> local noise sez 300 grams is a 2% grade


Street value?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
C

Chalo

Guest
datakoll wrote:
>
> "In normal circumstances, spokes don't pull a rim far enough to yield
> it, so ductility doesn't really come into play"
>
> you're pulling my spokes? the sum of (which is the math reality here)
> 36 spokes radiating from a central pull area to the pull circle out
> 300mm do not pull strong enough to give a positive or negative affect
> on common rim alloys? leading to the alloy as a variable in total
> spoke pull?


All that spoke tension adds up to a whole lot of hoop compression.
Aluminum alloy is pretty good at withstanding it, up to the point
where the yield point is reached and the rim buckles into a Brandt's
Potato Chip figure.

As long as the rim's section is large enough to resist Euler column
type buckling, the alloy's strength does have an effect on how much
total tension you can use. But truing a wheel does not bring a rim to
its yield stress-- there isn't any permanent deformation going on.
Any rim yielding from spoke tension (other than very locally, like
where the nipple heads bed into the spoke holes) inevitably results in
the appearance of Brandt's Potato Chip.

When you true a bent rim, you're not plastically yielding the thing
back to a round and flat shape, you're just flexing it to that shape.
If you undo the same number of turns it took to true the wheel, it
will relax back to its bent shape.

Chalo
 
Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:

>I know exactly what you mean - I never toured on the bike but
>I do some kayaking and that moment when you push this thing on
>the water and it starts bouncing on the waves and you KNOW that
>for next 8 hours it will be just you water and wind is the best.
>One of these days I would like to ride across Texas. And really
>SEE the land.


Sounds very cool!!

I don't know..... I think people spend SO MUCH time
inside now days that something inside of you dies... or
cries out for nourishment!!

At least I know that's how I've felt lately. I just
cant handle any more "technology"..... and just have a
need for some time away from all of it
 
Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:

>I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
>about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel and I
>wanted durable bike. Plus I know everybody in the bike shop at local
>REI and those guys are fantastic when it comes to service and repairs.


How you liking hat Novara Randonee so far?

I bought one over the weekend..... 55 cm model....
haven't put any miles on it yet. I can return it if I
don't like it, right?
 
SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd go with the Randonee. It's 20% off for the next three days, with the
>20% REI discount on one item. Another 5% back with an REI Visa card.


Well I bought the Randonee..... not sure I'm gonna keep
it tho. have 30 days to decide, right?

>OTOH, the frame on the LHT is better, 4130 versus 520. The LHT is hard
>to purchase around here, it has to be ordered I believe. Maybe some
>store stocks it, but probably not in multiple sizes.


Yeah the LHT Trucker IS hard to find!!! I couldn't
even find one to set on and make sure the size was
right. So that's why I went with the Novara Randonee
 
L

landotter

Guest
On Mar 31, 10:39 am, [email protected] wrote:
> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I'd go with the Randonee. It's 20% off for the next three days, with the
> >20% REI discount on one item. Another 5% back with an REI Visa card.

>
> Well I bought the Randonee..... not sure I'm gonna keep
> it tho. have 30 days to decide, right?
>
> >OTOH, the frame on the LHT is better, 4130 versus 520. The LHT is hard
> >to purchase around here, it has to be ordered I believe. Maybe some
> >store stocks it, but probably not in multiple sizes.

>
> Yeah the LHT Trucker IS hard to find!!!  I couldn't
> even find one to set on and make sure the size was
> right. So that's why I went with the Novara Randonee


See if you get along with the shifting system, that's the major
difference, really. You might just love it, or your inner techno
grouch might long for the simplicity of the LHT's bar-ends. Once you
know how the Randonee fits--if you want to switch to a different bike--
it's pretty easy to look at the specs and find your size. For example,
the 55cm Randonee and 56cm LHT have top tubes that are within a couple
mms of each other. Hopefully the Randonee will work out for you.
 
D

datakoll

Guest
mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator
 
L

landotter

Guest
On Mar 27, 8:15 pm, Woland99 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 10:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I want to do some touring this summer.

>
> > Any help on deciding between the tow bikes above?

>
> I was facing similar choice - wanted a touring bike and
> at the end had to decide betw Surly LHT and Novarra Randonee.
> For me Novarra Safari was out of a question - I wanted something
> that would look like road bike. PLus I had Novarra Viaggio - I guess
> you can call it earlier version of Safari and I was VERY unhappy
> with that B-shaped handlebar.
> I eventually went with Randonee for two reasons - all things being
> about the same on both bikes Randonee had much better wheel.


That's not true. The Randonee has a perfectly good wheel with Tiagra
hubs, Mavic rims, and generic SS spokes. The LHT has even better XT
hubs, DT spokes, and Adventurer rims. Both are good wheels, but at the
end of the day--I'd say the LHTs are higher pedigree.
 
landotter <[email protected]> wrote:

>See if you get along with the shifting system, that's the major
>difference, really. You might just love it, or your inner techno
>grouch might long for the simplicity of the LHT's bar-ends. Once you
>know how the Randonee fits--if you want to switch to a different bike--
>it's pretty easy to look at the specs and find your size. For example,
>the 55cm Randonee and 56cm LHT have top tubes that are within a couple
>mms of each other. Hopefully the Randonee will work out for you.


OK thanks

The Luddite in me does wonder if the combo shifter and
brake levers of the Novara Randonee make sense

I will give it a week or so before deciding whether to
keep it
 
D

datakoll

Guest
On Mar 31, 3:21 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >mount decent kevlar/aramid belt tires, Specialized thornproof tubes
> >with a CO2 threaded and unthreaded inflator

>
> Mount on what?
>
> Who are you talking to?


well, ya gotta get ridda the generic spokes too. nooooooo touring on
generic spokes.
less ya wanna spend the sumer in Demoine learnin taxidermee
 
D

datakoll

Guest
EVER WONDER WHY your supplier has a bad attitude?

"Well I bought the Randonee..... not sure I'm gonna keep
it tho. have 30 days to decide, right? "
 

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