Renshaw out for headbutting



slovakguy

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have to agree with swampy in general. booting ren is excessive. dean is squeezing, not being forced, left. renshaw was justified in fighting for his line. if another angle of this finish shows dean hooking over ren's right elbow, you'd have, at the very least, to boot them both.
 

roadhouse

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that was too much with the headbutting, no need for that and i can see and agree with the banning of renshaw.
 

swampy1970

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If that'd been Vanderarden, Kelly and Bontempi, someone would have been in hospital, someone would have still been pulling themselves out of the barriers and the last one standing would have been celebrating the win...

... and everyone watching would have called it a great race.

And in the next Tour de France sprint, Farrar bursts into tears after Cav reveals he's only sprinting at 80% and he'll put 3 bike lengths into him in Paris, Dean complains after Pettachi starts sprinting at 600 meters and ruins his lead out whilst also smashing Farrar. Thor admits like a man that he didn't have the legs or the speed. Other news, Cadel Evans bursts into tears when someone questions his ability to win the Tour whilst holding his manbag resplendant with ratdog stuffed inside.
 

swampy1970

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roadhouse said:
that was too much with the headbutting, no need for that and i can see and agree with the banning of renshaw.

Normally I'd say that I'd respect your views, no matter how wrong they'd be but given that you're the board idiot and I'm just bored, I'd have to say that your views once again are just plain wrong...
 

swampy1970

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Eldrack said:
It does look like Dean cut across and tried to cut Renshaw out. That said head butting is in retaliation is a bit over the top.

Personnally I don't agree with Renshaw being chucked out. Relegated and fined, yes. Kicked out is too far given the circumstances although I respect the fact the commissaires can't be seen to be taking it easy.

So sticking elbow in his ribs or trying to lean on him is any better than a headbutt? Renshaw had two good nods in his direction and Dean was still edging him towards the barriers and didn't flinch an inch during the faux pas - a good shove with the shoulders has had many people on the deck. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
 

EoinC

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Andrija said:
...As for the incident, Dean's intention was to close Cavendish. It was visible from helicopter shots. So, Renshaw was protecting the line, it was probably too aggressive, but I wouldn't say it was for exclusion.
Watching it on Eurosport, Dean was moving in on the line - Renshaw was holding his line. Not worthy of being tossed off the Tour.
Pushing with the head does not a "headbutt" make...
 

steve

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EoinC said:
Watching it on Eurosport, Dean was moving in on the line - Renshaw was holding his line. Not worthy of being tossed off the Tour.
Pushing with the head does not a "headbutt" make...

It might have been that he had a second go at J.Dean that decided his fate? The first headbutt/lean looked reasonable, the second was obvious aggression.
 

roadhouse

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swampy1970 said:
Normally I'd say that I'd respect your views, no matter how wrong they'd be but given that you're the board idiot and I'm just bored, I'd have to say that your views once again are just plain wrong...

normally i'd give a sh!t.
 

roadhouse

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steve said:
It might have been that he had a second go at J.Dean that decided his fate? The first headbutt/lean looked reasonable, the second was obvious aggression.


i saw both times with aggression.

why didn't Cadel get evicted from the Giro is what i want to know. the guy unmistakabley swung at another rider a few times. and would anyone know what happened with those two who got in a fight after a previous stage ? they banned?
 

EoinC

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steve said:
It might have been that he had a second go at J.Dean that decided his fate? The first headbutt/lean looked reasonable, the second was obvious aggression.
Yeah, looking at the replay, that second lot of wobble-head looked a little less like the indicating intentions of a double amputee.
The real problem is that it's hard to get a proper full-on headbutt in when you have to watch the road in front, and the helmets make it even less effective. I guess that's why some riders prefer to carry a front wheel with them...
 

tonyzackery

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Intentional, aggressive contact (even attempted contact) with another rider has no place in professional cycling, regardless of reason. Allowing that **** can/will turn some riders into thugs...Cycling, irrespective of the drug issues, is a classy sport; and I, for one, would like to see it kept in that regard...

The message has been rightfully and properly sent. Same needs to be done with the drug issues. First offense? Lifetime ban. Done. End of story. Deterrent? Ya' damn right.
 

Andrija

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steve said:
It might have been that he had a second go at J.Dean that decided his fate? The first headbutt/lean looked reasonable, the second was obvious aggression.
That second go was, probably, too much for the sprint we're talking about, but I understand the move... It's message - don't you f... with me with that *** ride.
Dean had the speed to match Renshaw's lead, Farrar didn't. The only way to beat Cavendish was to box out Renshaw, block Cavendish and leave open sprint to slow Farrar. Renshaw saw through the intention and responded like he did...
If you want to beat Cavendish you have to do it in duel with him, not by sending your lead out man to block him.
Renshaw's not only fast, he has brains too. His dedication is precious.
If I was Stapleton, I'd put him on scales and ask: "How do you wish your gold? In bars? In guineas, dollars...? Sorry Cav, but you'll have to settle with fame... Money goes to Renshaw."
Lets wait and see where Cav will be without Renshaw. That's gain of this punishment - more exciting sprint finishes (like this was not exciting enough).
 

limerickman

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I think the TDF are over reacting here.
Renshaw is a clean rider normally, as is Julian Dean.

I don't condone headbutting and Renshaw shouldn't have reacted
but there you go, people make stupid moves.

That incident would be nothing to the old Sean Kelly Eric Vandeerarden boxing matches.
I heard Kelly tell another story recently when he felt his shirt being tugged in a race in italy.
Kelly just punched the arm grabbing his jersey. Micro seconds later he felt another tug and Kelly just turned and planted the guilty party.
Cippo ended up going in to the barrier for trying to tug at Sean:D.

Serguei Outschakov managed to get in to a shoulder to shoulder tussle in the TDF in the late 1990's.
Him and another rider literally went head to head.
 

slovakguy

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given the significance of the well-executed head-butt in australian culture, renshaw may well be able to take the aso to european commonwealth court because of the obvious cultural discrimination.

just a thought in these litigious times.
 

tonyzackery

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Hmmm, the language and cultural cards? I've witnessed weaker cases have success. I think Renshaw should go for it...

Anyway, having engaged in a few bunch sprints myself, I would not want someone sprinting next to me at 60-65k thinking they'll be allowed to get away with head butting me to gain a few inches of space. With that put out there, you armchair experts that have never engaged in a bunch sprint at 60K+ - visualize for a moment and ask yourself if you'd be okay with another guy headbutting you at that speed...I didn't think so. Now consider what would be an appropriate punishment for that offender going upside your head with his at speeds that could be fatal...I rest my case...
 

EoinC

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EoinC said:
Yeah, looking at the replay, that second lot of wobble-head looked a little less like the indicating intentions of a double amputee...
I take that back. Dean moved in 3 times, and received three head wobbles back after each move. Dean instigated each of the events that brought a wobble reaction.
 

jonuck

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I concur! .. watching two different angles in the one Deans elbows are definitely where they shouldn't be and the other angle shows three separate moves to the left to occur the wobblehead reaction! .......... the apparent move toward Farrar may well have been consequence reaction and not intentional! .... I think Renshaw has been delt the cacky end of sticky stick. A penalty for both would have just but not exclusion for one! ..... :(
 

jonuck

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I have managed to review the interview between Robbie Ventura and Julian Dean! ... interestingly it is currently "Unavailable" and Julian's reaction is muted and he implied that "These things happen In Sprints" and is indicative of at least the part he himself played in it! ... Renshaw got a bum rap! ..........:(
 

leerobbs

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tonyzackery said:
Hmmm, the language and cultural cards? I've witnessed weaker cases have success. I think Renshaw should go for it...

Anyway, having engaged in a few bunch sprints myself, I would not want someone sprinting next to me at 60-65k thinking they'll be allowed to get away with head butting me to gain a few inches of space. With that put out there, you armchair experts that have never engaged in a bunch sprint at 60K+ - visualize for a moment and ask yourself if you'd be okay with another guy headbutting you at that speed...I didn't think so. Now consider what would be an appropriate punishment for that offender going upside your head with his at speeds that could be fatal...I rest my case...

Well said, I agree totally. You cannot have that in the race it is too dangerous to let it go without being ejected from the race.
 

EoinC

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leerobbs said:
Well said, I agree totally. You cannot have that in the race it is too dangerous to let it go without being ejected from the race.
Unfortunately, with all other limbs tied up in providing forward motion and holding his line, Mr Renshaw had few other appendages available to indicate to Mr Dean his displeasure at his repeated incursion on that line. Perhaps next time he could send him an e-mail?
If the book is to be thrown, you're going to require a large library to apply it equitably.
 

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