Repairing vs replacing wheels

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by [email protected], Mar 28, 2006.

  1. My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    bump, indicating a vertical deformation.

    I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    when it hit a pothole.

    The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    but will set me back around $250.

    Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?

    Thx,

    Atri
     
    Tags:


  2. Chris Nelson

    Chris Nelson Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >
    > Thx,
    >
    > Atri


    The Bontrager Race Lites are much nicer wheels than the Selects so I
    think your LBS is giving you good advice there.

    If the rim is bent, you need to replace it, but at $130 for a new
    wheel, the repair might not be worth it since it won't be that much
    less.

    Best bet, get a set of custom handbuilt wheels. Built right, they can
    be less expensive and more durable than the Bontragers.

    Chris
     
  3. gds

    gds Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >
    > Thx,
    >
    > Atri


    In my experience a wheel has to be more than "slightly damaged" to be
    untruable. And if you have loose spokes there is something wrong. I'd
    get another opinion on the condition of your rim before proceeding.
     
  4. Dane Buson

    Dane Buson Guest

    In rec.bicycles.misc [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?


    You could theoretically bang the old rim back into shape and re-tension
    it. I'd be more likely just to replace the rim and have someone rebuild
    the wheel. If you're careful you can use a similar size rim and reuse
    the spokes and hub. If you buy new, instead of giving Bontrager another
    $250, why not have someone handbuild a wheel for you? Ultregra hub + 32
    or 36 DB spokes + a good quality rim + labor will still likely be
    cheaper and last longer.

    --
    Dane Buson - [email protected]
    "I don't want to join the kind of a club that accepts
    people like me as members." -Groucho Marx
     
  5. > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.


    Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no shortage
    of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message indicates
    you're in the SF Bay Area).

    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.


    It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent, it
    won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent, trying to
    adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well... you need
    to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and then
    use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't possible,
    because the bend is too sharp.

    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?


    Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost comes
    close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just to
    buy a new one. As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our Los
    Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you the
    options).

    Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though. Dent
    resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and weight,
    and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper "Aero"
    style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.

    Hope this helps-

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >
    > Thx,
    >
    > Atri
    >
     
  6. Diablo Scott

    Diablo Scott Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >


    Trek doesn't allow dealers to sell Trek stuff on-line, but the rule
    apparently doesn't apply to Bontrager stuff. New Race Lite wheels show
    up all the time on eBay from legitimate on-line bike stores at prices
    far less than that, and used ones even cheaper.
     
  7. Neal

    Neal Guest

    "Diablo Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >> The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    >> replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    >> should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    >> but will set me back around $250.
    >>

    >
    > Trek doesn't allow dealers to sell Trek stuff on-line, but the rule apparently
    > doesn't apply to Bontrager stuff. New Race Lite wheels show up all the time
    > on eBay from legitimate on-line bike stores at prices far less than that, and
    > used ones even cheaper.



    I bought a new set of Race lites from a LBS last year for $250. I think Trek had
    some type of sale going on.
     
  8. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?


    Many rims can be repaired by slackening (but not zeroing)
    spoke tension, than applying appropriate force to the
    deformed section of the rim. Then tensioning and truing
    the wheel. Just for luck, squeeze the tensioned spoke
    pairs to be sure that they are stress relieved.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  9. >> replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    >> should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    >> but will set me back around $250.
    >>

    >
    > Trek doesn't allow dealers to sell Trek stuff on-line, but the rule
    > apparently doesn't apply to Bontrager stuff. New Race Lite wheels show up
    > all the time on eBay from legitimate on-line bike stores at prices far
    > less than that, and used ones even cheaper.


    Actually, Trek does *not* allow the sale of Bontrager components mail-order
    or via eBay. Many dealers either aren't aware of this or choose to ignore
    it. Unfortunately, you do need to be careful about wheels purchased that
    way. If it's a truly legit dealer, probably not an issue, but Trek changed
    the way they handled warranty stuff a while back, and stopped requiring the
    parts to be returned. They're in the midst of changing that, because there
    have been some dealers who then re-sold the defective parts on eBay
    (although I doubt it was done under a legit dealer name).

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

    "Diablo Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >> The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    >> replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    >> should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    >> but will set me back around $250.
    >>

    >
    > Trek doesn't allow dealers to sell Trek stuff on-line, but the rule
    > apparently doesn't apply to Bontrager stuff. New Race Lite wheels show up
    > all the time on eBay from legitimate on-line bike stores at prices far
    > less than that, and used ones even cheaper.
     
  10. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 28 Mar 2006 11:51:42 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    >rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    >bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    >inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    >so)?


    There are a couple of websites with basic info about straightening a
    bent rim; as long as this isn't a Select Aero, I'd give it a try.
    (Aero rims tend not to be as easily unkinked in my experience.) The
    best that can happen is that the wheel will get bent to a new shape
    that's more useful than the current one; the worst is that you'll
    still need a replacement. If the latter ends up being the case, I'd
    shop for a generic 36-spoke wheel; those tend to be less expensive by
    far, at least as durable as the costly racy stuff, and often will be
    less fragile in the bump-damage department because they're not aimed
    at the it-must-be-super-light market.


    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  11. [email protected] wrote:
    > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >
    > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > when it hit a pothole.
    >
    > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > but will set me back around $250.
    >
    > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >
    > Thx,
    >
    > Atri


    Yep, go to a bike shop that will build you a wheel that will do what
    you want it to do. I find it appalling that a hub will be thrown away
    because the rim, which always will go south eventually', becomes
    wacked. Use a hub, like an ultegra one, a good Velocity or mavic rim
    and spokes...about $225 from us.
     
  12. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >
    > > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > > when it hit a pothole.

    >
    > Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no shortage
    > of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message indicates
    > you're in the SF Bay Area).
    >
    > > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > > but will set me back around $250.

    >
    > It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent, it
    > won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent, trying to
    > adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well... you need
    > to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and then
    > use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't possible,
    > because the bend is too sharp.
    >
    > > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?

    >
    > Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost comes
    > close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    > about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just to
    > buy a new one.


    This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    or worn out.



    As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    > something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    > location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our Los
    > Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you the
    > options).
    >
    > Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though. Dent
    > resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and weight,
    > and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper "Aero"
    > style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.
    >
    > Hope this helps-
    >
    > --Mike Jacoubowsky
    > Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReaction.com
    > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >
    > > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > > when it hit a pothole.
    > >
    > > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > > but will set me back around $250.
    > >
    > > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    > >
    > > Thx,
    > >
    > > Atri
    > >
     
  13. >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    >> comes
    >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just
    >> to
    >> buy a new one.

    >
    > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > or worn out.


    ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete component
    is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build it.
    That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant about
    the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).

    If you want an example of something you'd approve of (but hate doing so),
    the Trek OCLV frames are intentionally designed in a way to enhance
    reparability (tube replacement), and they cost more to build because of
    that. Even though this doesn't always make economic sense (because what
    proportion will actually require repair, vs everyone paying a bit for so you
    can...), it sends a message to those putting new stuff on the drawing boards
    that they're working on a DURABLE piece of equipment that should be around
    for a while, not something that you use and throw away. That, in my opinion,
    makes a big difference in the quality and properties of the finished
    product.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >> >
    >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    >> > when it hit a pothole.

    >>
    >> Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no
    >> shortage
    >> of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message
    >> indicates
    >> you're in the SF Bay Area).
    >>
    >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    >> > but will set me back around $250.

    >>
    >> It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent, it
    >> won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent, trying
    >> to
    >> adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well... you
    >> need
    >> to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and
    >> then
    >> use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't possible,
    >> because the bend is too sharp.
    >>
    >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?

    >>
    >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    >> comes
    >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just
    >> to
    >> buy a new one.

    >
    > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > or worn out.
    >
    >
    >
    > As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    >> something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    >> location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our
    >> Los
    >> Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you the
    >> options).
    >>
    >> Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though. Dent
    >> resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and weight,
    >> and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper
    >> "Aero"
    >> style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.
    >>
    >> Hope this helps-
    >>
    >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
    >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> www.ChainReaction.com
    >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    >>
    >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >> >
    >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    >> > when it hit a pothole.
    >> >
    >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    >> > but will set me back around $250.
    >> >
    >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >> >
    >> > Thx,
    >> >
    >> > Atri
    >> >

    >
     
  14. I am curious - as a large Trek dealer, how many OCLV frames have you
    sent in for tube replacement?
     
  15. >I am curious - as a large Trek dealer, how many OCLV frames have you
    > sent in for tube replacement?


    Very few. Typically it occurs for chain suck issues (chewed-through
    chainstay), which doesn't happen too often, or a damaged top tube due to a
    side impact. Once in a while you'll get a total front-end replacement where
    the down tube, head tube and top tube require replacement; this is usually a
    roof-rack special. In general, it's pretty difficult to damage an OCLV
    frame, and often those that are damaged (from a head-on collision of some
    sort) are ridden long afterward without anyone knowing, because they didn't
    bother to check for damage on the backside of the lower headtube fitting.

    At some point it becomes more practical to simply replace the entire frame,
    as the cost of tubes & labor adds up. But I would much rather retain the
    flexibility of being able to repair them, even if it might not always make
    financial sense to do so, because I believe you get a better product that
    way. I'm sure one could make an argument that there is some sort of weight
    penalty in doing so, but I'll live with that. I like the idea of the
    engineer believing that the product is going to be in use for a very, very
    long time... and someday might be in need of repair, not just tossed a
    landfill component.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
     
  16. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:04:14 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    > ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete
    > component is often less than the sum of its part, without including
    > labor to build it. That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in
    > the world. Besides, you're preaching to the choir about disposability;
    > I'm often on a rant about the fact that things are often engineered with
    > the idea that you wouldn't repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one
    > (particularly electronics).


    This is true of many things, but with bicycle wheels it's only because of
    Trek's (and others') proprietary incompatibility and absurd markup. For
    example, I have it on good authority that many Rolf and Bontrager rims are
    actually rebranded Sun Venus rims. From Sun with standard drillings these
    retail for <$50, but if you want a replacement for your paired spoke
    wheels they're 50-200% more -- if they'll even sell you one.

    Matt O.
     
  17. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    > >> comes
    > >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    > >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just
    > >> to
    > >> buy a new one.

    > >
    > > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > > or worn out.

    >
    > ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete component
    > is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build it.
    > That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    > you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant about
    > the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    > repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).



    But Trek encourages it, practices it, from their components(shimano-BBs
    and STI-to Bontrager-hubs.

    If ya sell it, you agree with it. I do not, one of the reasons I do not
    sell out of the box wheels. Yes, Campag also does this with BBs...poor
    form, IMO.
    >
    > If you want an example of something you'd approve of (but hate doing so),
    > the Trek OCLV frames are intentionally designed in a way to enhance
    > reparability (tube replacement), and they cost more to build because of
    > that. Even though this doesn't always make economic sense (because what
    > proportion will actually require repair, vs everyone paying a bit for so you
    > can...), it sends a message to those putting new stuff on the drawing boards
    > that they're working on a DURABLE piece of equipment that should be around
    > for a while, not something that you use and throw away. That, in my opinion,
    > makes a big difference in the quality and properties of the finished
    > product.



    Glad to hear this because in the early days of OCLV, it certainly
    wasn't the case. It was obvious to me that Trek would rather warranty
    their frames then rather than make them better.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
    > "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >> >
    > >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > >> > when it hit a pothole.
    > >>
    > >> Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no
    > >> shortage
    > >> of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message
    > >> indicates
    > >> you're in the SF Bay Area).
    > >>
    > >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > >> > but will set me back around $250.
    > >>
    > >> It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent, it
    > >> won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent, trying
    > >> to
    > >> adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well... you
    > >> need
    > >> to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and
    > >> then
    > >> use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't possible,
    > >> because the bend is too sharp.
    > >>
    > >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    > >>
    > >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    > >> comes
    > >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes run
    > >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense just
    > >> to
    > >> buy a new one.

    > >
    > > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > > or worn out.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    > >> something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    > >> location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our
    > >> Los
    > >> Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you the
    > >> options).
    > >>
    > >> Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though. Dent
    > >> resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and weight,
    > >> and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper
    > >> "Aero"
    > >> style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.
    > >>
    > >> Hope this helps-
    > >>
    > >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
    > >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > >> www.ChainReaction.com
    > >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    > >>
    > >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected]
    > >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a spoke
    > >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out that
    > >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat loose.
    > >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I can
    > >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >> >
    > >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > >> > when it hit a pothole.
    > >> >
    > >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think of
    > >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said I
    > >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger rim,
    > >> > but will set me back around $250.
    > >> >
    > >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    > >> >
    > >> > Thx,
    > >> >
    > >> > Atri
    > >> >

    > >
     
  18. I would suggest that you have a friend show you how to build and true a
    wheel, using your old hub and new spokes. Or read a book on how to do
    it. Even if you screw up the trueing, you can take the built-up wheel
    to a bike shop and have them true it. Inevitably, after doing this a
    few times, you learn how to true a wheel well. It's not really that
    hard once you get a feel for it, know what to look for and take a
    systematic approach to it. Then you will never have this problem again.
     
  19. >> ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete
    >> component
    >> is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build
    >> it.
    >> That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    >> you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant
    >> about
    >> the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    >> repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).

    >
    >
    > But Trek encourages it, practices it, from their components(shimano-BBs
    > and STI-to Bontrager-hubs.
    >
    > If ya sell it, you agree with it. I do not, one of the reasons I do not
    > sell out of the box wheels. Yes, Campag also does this with BBs...poor
    > form, IMO.


    I'll grant you that Campagnolo has an advantage in terms of rebuilding shift
    levers (although fortunately I'm one of the lucky ones who's never had a
    Shimano STI fail), but bottom brackets? I find the cartridge bottom brackets
    last much longer than the old style. True that if someone does regular
    maintenance on an older-style bottom bracket (taking them apart, cleaning &
    regreasing), but depending upon how you ride and the weather, that might
    require doing so 3-4 times per year. The percentage of people who would do
    so is insignificant. The cartridge bottom bracket, on the other hand, just
    doesn't seem to care. They just go and go and go, and the fact that when
    they finally die they can't be rebuilt... seems like a small price to pay,
    to me.

    Hub bearings, on the other hand... I'm very disappointed in current
    cartridge-bearing hub technology. I like the fact that they're easily
    replaced, and allow for hub designs nor previously practical. But why is it
    that, in heavy rain, they siphon water *into* them, where it sits and rusts
    the bearings? Cartridge-bearing hubs are great for incidental water
    exposure, or mud, but give them some real rain to contend with, and they
    die. I try to make sure I don't call them "sealed" bearings anymore, because
    "sealed" implies that they might be waterproof.

    So here's a question- why do cartridge bearings work so much better in a
    bottom bracket than in a hub? Is it the rotational speed?

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    >> >> comes
    >> >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes
    >> >> run
    >> >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense
    >> >> just
    >> >> to
    >> >> buy a new one.
    >> >
    >> > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    >> > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    >> > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    >> > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    >> > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    >> > or worn out.

    >>
    >> ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete
    >> component
    >> is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build
    >> it.
    >> That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    >> you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant
    >> about
    >> the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    >> repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).

    >
    >
    > But Trek encourages it, practices it, from their components(shimano-BBs
    > and STI-to Bontrager-hubs.
    >
    > If ya sell it, you agree with it. I do not, one of the reasons I do not
    > sell out of the box wheels. Yes, Campag also does this with BBs...poor
    > form, IMO.
    >>
    >> If you want an example of something you'd approve of (but hate doing so),
    >> the Trek OCLV frames are intentionally designed in a way to enhance
    >> reparability (tube replacement), and they cost more to build because of
    >> that. Even though this doesn't always make economic sense (because what
    >> proportion will actually require repair, vs everyone paying a bit for so
    >> you
    >> can...), it sends a message to those putting new stuff on the drawing
    >> boards
    >> that they're working on a DURABLE piece of equipment that should be
    >> around
    >> for a while, not something that you use and throw away. That, in my
    >> opinion,
    >> makes a big difference in the quality and properties of the finished
    >> product.

    >
    >
    > Glad to hear this because in the early days of OCLV, it certainly
    > wasn't the case. It was obvious to me that Trek would rather warranty
    > their frames then rather than make them better.
    >>
    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >>
    >>
    >> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> >
    >> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a
    >> >> > spoke
    >> >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out
    >> >> > that
    >> >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    >> >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat
    >> >> > loose.
    >> >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I
    >> >> > can
    >> >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    >> >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    >> >> > when it hit a pothole.
    >> >>
    >> >> Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no
    >> >> shortage
    >> >> of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message
    >> >> indicates
    >> >> you're in the SF Bay Area).
    >> >>
    >> >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think
    >> >> > of
    >> >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said
    >> >> > I
    >> >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger
    >> >> > rim,
    >> >> > but will set me back around $250.
    >> >>
    >> >> It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent,
    >> >> it
    >> >> won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent,
    >> >> trying
    >> >> to
    >> >> adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well...
    >> >> you
    >> >> need
    >> >> to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and
    >> >> then
    >> >> use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't
    >> >> possible,
    >> >> because the bend is too sharp.
    >> >>
    >> >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    >> >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    >> >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    >> >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    >> >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    >> >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >> >>
    >> >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    >> >> comes
    >> >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes
    >> >> run
    >> >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense
    >> >> just
    >> >> to
    >> >> buy a new one.
    >> >
    >> > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    >> > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    >> > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    >> > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    >> > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    >> > or worn out.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    >> >> something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    >> >> location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our
    >> >> Los
    >> >> Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you
    >> >> the
    >> >> options).
    >> >>
    >> >> Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though.
    >> >> Dent
    >> >> resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and
    >> >> weight,
    >> >> and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper
    >> >> "Aero"
    >> >> style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.
    >> >>
    >> >> Hope this helps-
    >> >>
    >> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
    >> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> >> www.ChainReaction.com
    >> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    >> >>
    >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >> news:[email protected]
    >> >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a
    >> >> > spoke
    >> >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out
    >> >> > that
    >> >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    >> >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat
    >> >> > loose.
    >> >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I
    >> >> > can
    >> >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    >> >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    >> >> > when it hit a pothole.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think
    >> >> > of
    >> >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said
    >> >> > I
    >> >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger
    >> >> > rim,
    >> >> > but will set me back around $250.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    >> >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    >> >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    >> >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    >> >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    >> >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Thx,
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Atri
    >> >> >
    >> >

    >
     
  20. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete
    > >> component
    > >> is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build
    > >> it.
    > >> That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    > >> you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant
    > >> about
    > >> the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    > >> repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).

    > >
    > >
    > > But Trek encourages it, practices it, from their components(shimano-BBs
    > > and STI-to Bontrager-hubs.
    > >
    > > If ya sell it, you agree with it. I do not, one of the reasons I do not
    > > sell out of the box wheels. Yes, Campag also does this with BBs...poor
    > > form, IMO.

    >
    > I'll grant you that Campagnolo has an advantage in terms of rebuilding shift
    > levers (although fortunately I'm one of the lucky ones who's never had a
    > Shimano STI fail), but bottom brackets? I find the cartridge bottom brackets
    > last much longer than the old style. True that if someone does regular
    > maintenance on an older-style bottom bracket (taking them apart, cleaning &
    > regreasing), but depending upon how you ride and the weather, that might
    > require doing so 3-4 times per year. The percentage of people who would do
    > so is insignificant.


    It's become insignificanrt becasue shimano has foisted the cart bearing
    BB onto the market with it's 'gorilla in the room' power. I have used
    the same BB on my bicycle since 1990...I overhaul it once per year or
    if I get caught in the rain...NO big deal.


    The cartridge bottom bracket, on the other hand, just
    > doesn't seem to care. They just go and go and go, and the fact that when
    > they finally die they can't be rebuilt... seems like a small price to pay,
    > to me.


    Not surprised you say that, considering your reliance on shimano and
    your business.


    >
    > Hub bearings, on the other hand... I'm very disappointed in current
    > cartridge-bearing hub technology. I like the fact that they're easily
    > replaced, and allow for hub designs nor previously practical. But why is it
    > that, in heavy rain, they siphon water *into* them, where it sits and rusts
    > the bearings? Cartridge-bearing hubs are great for incidental water
    > exposure, or mud, but give them some real rain to contend with, and they
    > die. I try to make sure I don't call them "sealed" bearings anymore, because
    > "sealed" implies that they might be waterproof.
    >
    > So here's a question- why do cartridge bearings work so much better in a
    > bottom bracket than in a hub? Is it the rotational speed?


    See above. I think cart beartings in a BB are sluggish, overpriced and
    necessary only because shimano has made them necessary when they went
    to them in the 7410 crank.


    >
    > --Mike Jacoubowsky
    > Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReaction.com
    > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    >
    > "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    > >> >> comes
    > >> >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes
    > >> >> run
    > >> >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense
    > >> >> just
    > >> >> to
    > >> >> buy a new one.
    > >> >
    > >> > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > >> > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > >> > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > >> > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > >> > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > >> > or worn out.
    > >>
    > >> ??? This "philosophy" comes about because the cost of a complete
    > >> component
    > >> is often less than the sum of its part, without including labor to build
    > >> it.
    > >> That's a simple fact of life for a lot of things in the world. Besides,
    > >> you're preaching to the choir about disposability; I'm often on a rant
    > >> about
    > >> the fact that things are often engineered with the idea that you wouldn't
    > >> repair it, but just toss it and buy a new one (particularly electronics).

    > >
    > >
    > > But Trek encourages it, practices it, from their components(shimano-BBs
    > > and STI-to Bontrager-hubs.
    > >
    > > If ya sell it, you agree with it. I do not, one of the reasons I do not
    > > sell out of the box wheels. Yes, Campag also does this with BBs...poor
    > > form, IMO.
    > >>
    > >> If you want an example of something you'd approve of (but hate doing so),
    > >> the Trek OCLV frames are intentionally designed in a way to enhance
    > >> reparability (tube replacement), and they cost more to build because of
    > >> that. Even though this doesn't always make economic sense (because what
    > >> proportion will actually require repair, vs everyone paying a bit for so
    > >> you
    > >> can...), it sends a message to those putting new stuff on the drawing
    > >> boards
    > >> that they're working on a DURABLE piece of equipment that should be
    > >> around
    > >> for a while, not something that you use and throw away. That, in my
    > >> opinion,
    > >> makes a big difference in the quality and properties of the finished
    > >> product.

    > >
    > >
    > > Glad to hear this because in the early days of OCLV, it certainly
    > > wasn't the case. It was obvious to me that Trek would rather warranty
    > > their frames then rather than make them better.
    > >>
    > >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected]
    > >> >
    > >> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a
    > >> >> > spoke
    > >> >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out
    > >> >> > that
    > >> >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > >> >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat
    > >> >> > loose.
    > >> >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I
    > >> >> > can
    > >> >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > >> >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > >> >> > when it hit a pothole.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Potholes kill far more rims than crashes. Unfortunately, there's no
    > >> >> shortage
    > >> >> of potholes, especially this year, with all the rain (your message
    > >> >> indicates
    > >> >> you're in the SF Bay Area).
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think
    > >> >> > of
    > >> >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said
    > >> >> > I
    > >> >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger
    > >> >> > rim,
    > >> >> > but will set me back around $250.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> It probably is safe to ride, but if the spoke tension is inconsistent,
    > >> >> it
    > >> >> won't hold its shape for very long. If the rim is physically bent,
    > >> >> trying
    > >> >> to
    > >> >> adjust it straight via nothing but spoke tension won't work well...
    > >> >> you
    > >> >> need
    > >> >> to physically bend the rim back into shape, as close as possible, and
    > >> >> then
    > >> >> use the spokes for fine-tuning. In many cases this simply isn't
    > >> >> possible,
    > >> >> because the bend is too sharp.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > >> >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > >> >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > >> >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > >> >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > >> >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Those wheels can definitely be rebuilt; rims are available. The cost
    > >> >> comes
    > >> >> close to a new wheel however; I believe the rim is around $65, spokes
    > >> >> run
    > >> >> about $20 and labor about $40. Thus, in most cases, it makes sense
    > >> >> just
    > >> >> to
    > >> >> buy a new one.
    > >> >
    > >> > This philosophy and mentality, from Trek and Bontrager and others, I
    > >> > find really disappointing. When it's better to just throw a hub away,
    > >> > and buy a new wheel rather than have the thing rebuilt, with a new
    > >> > rim(no need for new spokes) ala a normal wheel. I guess that speaks
    > >> > voluimes about the hub, when it's of no use when the rim gets damaged
    > >> > or worn out.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > As for the dent in your old wheel, I can't tell if it's
    > >> >> something that can be dealt with without seeing it (and, given your
    > >> >> location, it's quite possible you might have already taken it into our
    > >> >> Los
    > >> >> Altos store already, where someone should have been able to give you
    > >> >> the
    > >> >> options).
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Not sure that a RaceLite wheel would be more dent-resistant though.
    > >> >> Dent
    > >> >> resistance is almost entirely a function of rim cross-section and
    > >> >> weight,
    > >> >> and the Select, Race and RaceLite are all quite similar. The deeper
    > >> >> "Aero"
    > >> >> style rims are significantly stronger, but at some expense in weight.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Hope this helps-
    > >> >>
    > >> >> --Mike Jacoubowsky
    > >> >> Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > >> >> www.ChainReaction.com
    > >> >> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    > >> >>
    > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> >> news:[email protected]
    > >> >> > My road bike has Bontrager Select wheels, and I recently broke a
    > >> >> > spoke
    > >> >> > on the rear wheel and had it replaced at the LBS. They pointed out
    > >> >> > that
    > >> >> > my rim was slightly damaged, and that they could not fully true the
    > >> >> > wheel. They did the best they could, but the spokes are somewhat
    > >> >> > loose.
    > >> >> > Any tighter, and they said the wheel will get further deformed. I
    > >> >> > can
    > >> >> > see that the wheel has a lateral shimmy, and while riding, I feel a
    > >> >> > bump, indicating a vertical deformation.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > I have never crashed this bike, and so I guess the wheel got damaged
    > >> >> > when it hit a pothole.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > The LBS said it should be safe to ride for now, but I should think
    > >> >> > of
    > >> >> > replacing the wheel. A Bontrager Select is about $130, but they said
    > >> >> > I
    > >> >> > should consider a Bontrager Race Lite, which has a much stronger
    > >> >> > rim,
    > >> >> > but will set me back around $250.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Since I am a recreational rider (occasional century/double metric),
    > >> >> > rather than a racer, I don't really need the lightest and greatest
    > >> >> > bike, but would like to have a decent, sturdy, and preferably
    > >> >> > inexpensive wheel. Is a dented rim repairable (the LBS did not think
    > >> >> > so)? Any recommendations of where to get a wheel rim repaired in the
    > >> >> > San Jose, CA area? Any wheel recommendations?
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Thx,
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Atri
    > >> >> >
    > >> >

    > >
     
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