Report on Alton Brown's City Ham



On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:14:23 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 27 Dec 2005 06:00:27 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
>> packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
>> cook'".
>
>Brined? BRINED? ;)

Yeah - it should say "marinated" <snork>.

-sw
 
In article <AH3sf.896$M%[email protected]>,
"Gregory Morrow"
....

> And WTF is a "city" ham...???
>
> Is the "city" Little Rock or NYC or Venezia or *where*...???

Basically, a "country ham" is (e.g. a Smithfield) a dry cured
ham of traditional kind, while a "city ham" is the product you
will usually find in city stores -- wet cured (less salty, at
the least; possibly less flavorful, though that may be disputable).

Country hams need some time soaked in water to extract excess salt.
Treatment from that point may or may not be similar to wet-cured
hams.
 
On 27 Dec 2005 06:18:29 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon 26 Dec 2005 10:13:56p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve Wertz?
>
>> On 27 Dec 2005 06:00:27 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
>>>packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
>>>cook'".
>>
>> It's a "City Ham" (wet cured) as opposed to a "Country Ham"
>> (dry-cured).
>>
>> Why they didn't just name them Urban Ham and Rural Ham is
>> anybody's guess.
>
>Then there must be one that is damp cured called "Suburban Ham".

Those are only made by Chevrolet and are too large for most ovens.

-sw
 
On Mon 26 Dec 2005 10:28:12p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
Wertz?

> On 27 Dec 2005 06:18:29 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon 26 Dec 2005 10:13:56p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
>>Wertz?
>>
>>> On 27 Dec 2005 06:00:27 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham
>>>>that's packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked
>>>>'ready to cook'".
>>>
>>> It's a "City Ham" (wet cured) as opposed to a "Country Ham"
>>> (dry-cured).
>>>
>>> Why they didn't just name them Urban Ham and Rural Ham is anybody's
>>> guess.
>>
>>Then there must be one that is damp cured called "Suburban Ham".
>
> Those are only made by Chevrolet and are too large for most ovens.

I wonder if you can get those spiral-sliced?


--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 27 Dec 2005 06:18:29 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon 26 Dec 2005 10:13:56p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve Wertz?
> >
> >> On 27 Dec 2005 06:00:27 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
> >>>packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
> >>>cook'".
> >>
> >> It's a "City Ham" (wet cured) as opposed to a "Country Ham"
> >> (dry-cured).
> >>
> >> Why they didn't just name them Urban Ham and Rural Ham is
> >> anybody's guess.
> >
> >Then there must be one that is damp cured called "Suburban Ham".
>
> Those are only made by Chevrolet and are too large for most ovens.
>
> -sw

And are real energy hogs when you cook them? :)

But what about exurban hams, or maybe "metroporcine" hams
(on the model of "metrosexual")?
 
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:47:28 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> > This is from the recipe on the FoodTV site: *Cook's note: A city ham is
>> > basically any brined ham that's packed in a plastic bag, held in a
>> > refrigerated case and marked "ready to cook", "partially cooked" or
>> > "ready to serve". Better city hams are also labeled "ham in natural
>juices"

>And WTF is a "city" ham...???

See above. This is as compared to a "country ham."

Here. From www.samcooks.com/flavor/CountryHam.htm :

In the hoopla over the introduction of Spanish serrano ham into the
United States a few years ago, and the gushing over Italian
prosciuttos before that, one of the world’s great hams has gotten left
out -- American country ham.

Unlike the more common wet-cured ham, which is soaked in brine or
injected with a salt solution, country ham is dry-cured and aged over
a much longer period. "There’s city ham and there’s country ham.
Country ham is a different animal altogether," said John Ash, Culinary
Director of Fetzer Vineyards Wine and Food Center at Valley Oaks,
Calif.
(dw note: "wet-cured, which is soaked in brine..." nyaa, nyaa,
Sheldon)

"Wet-cured hams have a lot of water so they have a watery flavor. The
flavor of country hams is more intense," said Eman Loubier, sous chef
of Commander’s Palace in New Orleans. It’s not surprising that country
ham’s flavor is so concentrated. Government guidelines require that at
least 18% of the ham’s original weight be lost during the curing and
aging process. Longer aging takes that figure over 20 percent.

(end quoted material)
The Smithfield ham (or 'Virginia Ham') is the best-known of the country hams.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge
 
"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Nexis wrote:
>> Let me preface this post by saying, I am *not* a ham eater. Never have
>> liked
>> it, except covered in bbq sauce and served on a potato roll. That being
>> said, this ham turned out awesome! lol
>>
>> Here's the basics: You buy a brined ham, hock end.
>
> Hock... that ain't any kind of ham... ham is whole, butt, or shank...
> ain't no other. And what do you mean brined... then sure can't be
> cured, must be talking fresh pork.
>

I'm not a fan, as I said, and therefore I'm not usually in the market for
ham. Seems to me I've heard of ham hocks plenty of times though. In any
case, I printed the recipe which called for a "city style (brined) ham, hock
end" and I took it with me to the butcher. He knew what I needed, and it
looked exactly like the one in the show, and everyone loved so, hey, it
worked for me! :)

Happy Holidays, Sheldon.

kimberly
 
Kimberly wrote:

>> Hock... that ain't any kind of ham... ham is whole, butt, or shank...
>> ain't no other. And what do you mean brined... then sure can't be
>> cured, must be talking fresh pork.
>
> I'm not a fan, as I said, and therefore I'm not usually in the market for
> ham. Seems to me I've heard of ham hocks plenty of times though. In any
> case, I printed the recipe which called for a "city style (brined) ham,
> hock end" and I took it with me to the butcher. He knew what I needed, and
> it looked exactly like the one in the show, and everyone loved so, hey, it
> worked for me! :)
>
> Happy Holidays, Sheldon.

Pay no attention to the attention-starved pervert. In the lexicon *****
gives, "hock end" is the same as "shank end." He's just too stupid to
figure it out. Fortunately, your butcher is smarter than Sheldon -- not
like that's any kind of extraordinary accomplishment!

Bob
 
Denny Wheeler wrote:

>
> "Wet-cured hams have a lot of water so they have a watery flavor. The
> flavor of country hams is more intense," said Eman Loubier, sous chef
> of Commander's Palace in New Orleans. It's not surprising that country
> ham's flavor is so concentrated. Government guidelines require that at
> least 18% of the ham's original weight be lost during the curing and
> aging process. Longer aging takes that figure over 20 percent.
>
> (end quoted material)
> The Smithfield ham (or 'Virginia Ham') is the best-known of the country hams.
>
> --
> -denny-


Yes, this is correct for a country ham. I may be completely wrong in
my assessment of a 'city ham', but they need to be refrigerated to keep
from spoiling. 'Country hams' need no refrigeration as they are cured
with salt and generally smoked. No fly that values his life would
think about trying to pierce the tough dry skin of a country ham.

Some restaurants/people serve sliced country ham without removing some
of the salt. After eating a slice, there is not enough water on this
planet to quench that thirst. I've found the best way to serve country
ham is to place it in a skillet barely covered with water. Let it
simmer about 7 or 8 minutes, turn and simmer another 7-8 minutes.
Remove the skillet from the stove, dump water, quickly wipe out
skillet, and return ham slices to the pan. Fry for about 7 or 8
minutes on one side, turn and fry another 7-8 minutes. Delicious and
without that raging thurst.

YMMV
 
Denny Wheeler wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:47:28 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > This is from the recipe on the FoodTV site: *Cook's note: A city ham is
> >> > basically any brined ham that's packed in a plastic bag, held in a
> >> > refrigerated case and marked "ready to cook", "partially cooked" or
> >> > "ready to serve". Better city hams are also labeled "ham in natural
> >juices"
>
> >And WTF is a "city" ham...???
>
> See above. This is as compared to a "country ham."
>
> Here. From www.samcooks.com/flavor/CountryHam.htm :
>
> In the hoopla over the introduction of Spanish serrano ham into the
> United States a few years ago, and the gushing over Italian
> prosciuttos before that, one of the world's great hams has gotten left
> out -- American country ham.
>
> Unlike the more common wet-cured ham, which is soaked in brine or
> injected with a salt solution, country ham is dry-cured and aged over
> a much longer period. "There's city ham and there's country ham.
> Country ham is a different animal altogether," said John Ash, Culinary
> Director of Fetzer Vineyards Wine and Food Center at Valley Oaks,
> Calif.
> (dw note: "wet-cured, which is soaked in brine..." nyaa, nyaa,
> Sheldon)

You need to read the sections on hams in the book by Rytec Kutas...
instead of the above **** by some know-nothing jounalist. Wet cured
means spray injected with nitrite solution, not just soaked in salt
water... no commercial hams are just brined. Hams that are brined
(pickled) only will be grey, tasteless, and are very likely to spoil.
Soaked in salt water would be pickled, and pickled is not cured.
Pickled is reserved for much smaller cuts of pork, like knuckles, and
tongues... and even those are more typically nitrite injected to
guarantee they won't spoil before the brine fully penetrates, and to
impart flavor and color. Read Rytec Kutas' book and then you'll know
something. Yoose as ignorant on the topic as the OP who began this
thread... actually you are far more ignorant, because the OP had the
intelligence to admit not knowing.

If curing ham was as simple as soaking in a tub of salt water everyone
would be buying fresh hams for a buck a pound and making their own.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Mon 26 Dec 2005 09:47:28p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Gregory
> Morrow?
>
> >
> > Sheldon wrote:
> >
> >> Goomba38 wrote:
> >> > Sheldon wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Nexis wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >>Let me preface this post by saying, I am *not* a ham eater. Never
> >> > >>have liked it, except covered in bbq sauce and served on a potato
> >> > >>roll. That being said, this ham turned out awesome! lol
> >> > >>
> >> > >>Here's the basics: You buy a brined ham, hock end.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Hock... that ain't any kind of ham... ham is whole, butt, or
> >> > > shank... ain't no other. And what do you mean brined... then sure
> >> > > can't be cured, must be talking fresh pork.
> >> > >
> >> > This is from the recipe on the FoodTV site: *Cook's note: A city ham
> >> > is basically any brined ham that's packed in a plastic bag, held in a
> >> > refrigerated case and marked "ready to cook", "partially cooked" or
> >> > "ready to serve". Better city hams are also labeled "ham in natural
> >> > juices"
> >>
> >> What are you jabbering about... FoodTV! Ahahahahahahahaha. . . . .
> >>
> >> "Hock" is not ham, and brining is not curing.... do you think when folk
> >> discuss how to brine a turkey or pork chops it's about preserving...
> >> you'd best stay far away from FoodTV, your brain is brined. <G>
> >>
> >
> > And WTF is a "city" ham...???
> >
> > Is the "city" Little Rock or NYC or Venezia or *where*...???
> >
>
> According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
> packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
> cook'".
>
>

Whereas a country ham is the likes of Serrano or Prosciutto. Personally
I'll take those over a city ham any day.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]ost says...
> On 27 Dec 2005 06:00:27 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
> >packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
> >cook'".
>
> It's a "City Ham" (wet cured) as opposed to a "Country Ham"
> (dry-cured).
>
> Why they didn't just name them Urban Ham and Rural Ham is
> anybody's guess.

Marketing. I say that because almost all marketing plays to lowest
common denominator.

Of course when I hear city vs. country I think in terms of attitude more
than anything else. For instance, this is a city boy's blog:

http://truthspew.blogspot.com
 
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:AH3sf.896$M%[email protected]...

<snip>

>
> And WTF is a "city" ham...???
>
> Is the "city" Little Rock or NYC or Venezia or *where*...???
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

See below

Dimitri

http://www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=105&id=741&floater=disabled#types


Ham TypesDescription
Fresh HamsFresh hams are cuts from the hind leg that are not cured or smoked.
They are grayish-pink in color when raw and when cooked they are grayish-white.
Fresh hams are cooked using the same methods used for other fresh pork cuts and
have a similar flavor to pork roast.

Dry-Cured Hams
Sometimes referred to as country hams, they are cuts from the hind leg of a hog
that have been cured without the injection of water. A curing compound
consisting of salt and other ingredients, which may include sugar, sodium
nitrate, nitrates, phosphates, and other seasonings, is rubbed on the surface of
the ham. The ham is then hung to dry, allowing it to age anywhere from a few
weeks to over a year, depending on the variety of ham. Generally, the aging
process is approximately six months. During this time the curing compound
penetrates through the entire ham, drawing out moisture and thereby preserving
the ham. The weight of the ham is reduced 18 to 25 percent. The loss of moisture
produces a more intense flavor and deepens the color of the ham. Dry-cured hams
may also be smoked. Ham that is dry cured is saltier and drier than the typical
ham you find in normal food stores.

Because of the lengthy curing time, country hams often form a layer of mold on
the outside. This mold is not harmful, but is rather an indication of proper
aging. The mold can easily be scrubbed off.
Frequently aged ham will also develop white specks through out the meat. The
specks do not affect the quality of the meat.

Because of the saltiness of the country hams, they are generally soaked before
they are cooked to help reduce the salt content. Dry-cured country hams may be
found in a market near the area in which they are produced but typically they
have to be special ordered. There are also dry-cured hams available that are not
country hams, such as prosciutto ham, which is a lightly salted dry-cured ham
that is air-dried for many months and served raw.


Wet (or Brine) Cured HamsAlso referred to as city hams, they are cuts from the
hind leg of a hog that have been cured by soaking or injecting with water and
brining ingredients. The curing solution consists of water and brining
ingredients, such as salt, sugar, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, honey, spices,
seasoning, and artificial flavoring. The ham may also be cooked or smoked during
this process. Wet cured /CITY HAMS/ are mass-produced and generally ready for
market in one to seven days. Their flavor is less intense than a dry-cured ham.
The city ham is the type of ham commonly found in a typical food store. It is
popular for its pink color, moistness, and sweet flavor.
 
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:13:56 -0600, Steve Wertz
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Why they didn't just name them Urban Ham and Rural Ham is
>anybody's guess.

Urban Hams are on-Broadway, Rural Hams are off-Broadway.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge
 
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:47:28 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>And WTF is a "city" ham...???
>
>Is the "city" Little Rock or NYC or Venezia or *where*...???


The old-fashioned ham is now called a "country" ham. It's drier, has a
strong flavor -- a traditional ham. Like the original Smithfield hams, I
guess.

A "City" ham is milder, moister, more tender (mostly because of the
moistness, I think) and is more popular with "city" people who find the
"country" ham to be too dry and strongly flavored.

At least, that's the current terminology I see from some mail-order ham
places.





Alan Moorman

=========================================
 
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:05:42 -0500, Tony P. wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> >
> > According to Food Network, "A city ham is basically any brined ham that's
> > packed in a plastic bag, held in a refrigerated case and marked 'ready to
> > cook'".
> >
>
> Whereas a country ham is the likes of Serrano or Prosciutto. Personally
> I'll take those over a city ham any day.

Most American's idea of a country ham is smoked. Prosciutto and
Serrano hams are dry cured. There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those
processes. Cured ham tastes raw to me, smoked ham doesn't.
http://www.answers.com/topic/prosciutto
http://bbq.about.com/cs/pork/a/aa112903a.htm

Food Network's idea of City and Country ham isn't right, IMO. For me,
City Ham is dry cured and Country Ham has been and will always be
smoked. I will call the injected stuff Suburban Ham.

:)
sf
who doesn't like prosciutto
<ick>
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
 
Nothing you wrote proves your original point (or disproves ours).
I especially like d the part about salt water brining being a
pickle. That's a classic.

For economy sake, commercial hams nowdays are injected with a
brining solution containing nitrites. Not long ago they were
simply soaked in that same solution. A brine contains salt.
Sodium nitrite (and nitrate) is a salt.

-sw
 
Who are you replying to?
``````````

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:41:29 -0600, Steve Wertz wrote:

> Nothing you wrote proves your original point (or disproves ours).
> I especially like d the part about salt water brining being a
> pickle. That's a classic.
>
> For economy sake, commercial hams nowdays are injected with a
> brining solution containing nitrites. Not long ago they were
> simply soaked in that same solution. A brine contains salt.
> Sodium nitrite (and nitrate) is a salt.
>
> -sw

--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
 
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:37:09 -0800, sf <[email protected]>
wrote:

(to Steve Wertz)
>Who are you replying to?
>``````````
Sheldon. Doesn't Steve W. usually quote in his replies? Seemed to me
like he does/did.
--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge
 
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