Results on rbr handicapping of Armstrong's marathon



H

Howard Kveck

Guest
Going through the thread "Armstrong's NYC marathon time?" we see the following
picks for time:

BJC at 2:35
Cowpunk at 2:55
RJK3 at "under 2:40: the question is by how much"
Joedopebucket said "I will be impressed if he does it under 3 hours."
Kyle Legate clocked in with "Who cares?"
Miley90 estimated 3:07-3:12
Rik Van Diesel guessed 2:44
Dwayne thought matching Jaja's 2:55 would be good but beating 2:42 (a time turned in
by Rolf Aldag in his marthon debut) would be a compulsive Lance's line.
Rik Van Diesel changed to a 2:40
Ryan Cousineau went with a "supermotivated" 2:34
Ewoud Dronkert went with a 3:10
Phil Holman said 2:57
Michael Press at 2:35
Mark Fenelli at 2:50
Ben Weiner talked about rbr-LANCE drug use scenarios

Since he ran a 2:59:37, I'd say that Joedopebucket is now officially impressed
(if only just), Phil Holman came closest with actual numbers and Ryan Cousineau gets
the Alex Trebekian "Oooh..."

Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Howard Kveck wrote:
> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?


and did LANCE tell them to pull or get dropped.
 
Donald Munro wrote:
> Howard Kveck wrote:
>> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
>> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?

>
> and did LANCE tell them to pull or get dropped.
>


LOL!

Steve
 
Howard Kveck wrote:

> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?


The pacing situation was weird. Joan Benoit Samuelson was fetching
drinks from aid stations and handing them to LANCE. Hicham El Guerrouj,
recently retired mile record holder, seemed to jump in with about 8
miles to go, and was fetching GU packs from aid stations, tearing them
open, and handing them to LANCE. There was a Hispanic guy with a
T-shirt reading "GERMAN", who I thought might have been former NYCM
winner German Silva, and ran with LANCE almost the whole way. The only
one of these I noticed crossing the finish line was El Guerrouj. I
never noticed Alberto Salazar, who was mentioned in some media stories.

I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
athletes really like him; (c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
I have no idea which applies...
 
"Dwayne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Howard Kveck wrote:
>
>> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him.
>> Did they
>> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at
>> the end?

>
> The pacing situation was weird. Joan Benoit Samuelson was fetching
> drinks from aid stations and handing them to LANCE. Hicham El Guerrouj,
> recently retired mile record holder, seemed to jump in with about 8
> miles to go, and was fetching GU packs from aid stations, tearing them
> open, and handing them to LANCE. There was a Hispanic guy with a
> T-shirt reading "GERMAN", who I thought might have been former NYCM
> winner German Silva, and ran with LANCE almost the whole way. The only
> one of these I noticed crossing the finish line was El Guerrouj. I
> never noticed Alberto Salazar, who was mentioned in some media stories.


Sounds like cheating to me...

JF
 
Dwayne wrote:
> There was a Hispanic guy with a T-shirt reading "GERMAN",


That was an incognito Ullrich in his Spanish disguise.
 
That's the only way those folks are going to get any television time these
days, as Lance's domestiques.


"Dwayne" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> Howard Kveck wrote:
>
>> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him.
>> Did they
>> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at
>> the end?

>
> The pacing situation was weird. Joan Benoit Samuelson was fetching
> drinks from aid stations and handing them to LANCE. Hicham El Guerrouj,
> recently retired mile record holder, seemed to jump in with about 8
> miles to go, and was fetching GU packs from aid stations, tearing them
> open, and handing them to LANCE. There was a Hispanic guy with a
> T-shirt reading "GERMAN", who I thought might have been former NYCM
> winner German Silva, and ran with LANCE almost the whole way. The only
> one of these I noticed crossing the finish line was El Guerrouj. I
> never noticed Alberto Salazar, who was mentioned in some media stories.
>
> I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
> strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
> much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
> athletes really like him; (c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
> achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
> I have no idea which applies...
>
 
Howard Kveck wrote:
> Going through the thread "Armstrong's NYC marathon time?" we see the following
> picks for time:
>
> BJC at 2:35
> Cowpunk at 2:55
> RJK3 at "under 2:40: the question is by how much"
> Joedopebucket said "I will be impressed if he does it under 3 hours."
> Kyle Legate clocked in with "Who cares?"
> Miley90 estimated 3:07-3:12
> Rik Van Diesel guessed 2:44
> Dwayne thought matching Jaja's 2:55 would be good but beating 2:42 (a time turned in
> by Rolf Aldag in his marthon debut) would be a compulsive Lance's line.
> Rik Van Diesel changed to a 2:40
> Ryan Cousineau went with a "supermotivated" 2:34
> Ewoud Dronkert went with a 3:10
> Phil Holman said 2:57
> Michael Press at 2:35
> Mark Fenelli at 2:50
> Ben Weiner talked about rbr-LANCE drug use scenarios
>
> Since he ran a 2:59:37, I'd say that Joedopebucket is now officially impressed
> (if only just), Phil Holman came closest with actual numbers and Ryan Cousineau gets
> the Alex Trebekian "Oooh..."
>
> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?


Thanks you for the summary. I was WAY off. Lance is soft and slow! My
wife would have beaten his sorry ass. Why is it that any time someone
competes in a sport they haven't spent their life training for and then
subsequently suck they turn around and say this is the hardest sport
ever. So weak! Think Michael Jordan at baseball, then Golf..

RVD
 
Dwayne wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
>
>
>> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
>>peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?

>
>
> The pacing situation was weird. Joan Benoit Samuelson was fetching
> drinks from aid stations and handing them to LANCE. Hicham El Guerrouj,
> recently retired mile record holder, seemed to jump in with about 8
> miles to go, and was fetching GU packs from aid stations, tearing them
> open, and handing them to LANCE. There was a Hispanic guy with a
> T-shirt reading "GERMAN", who I thought might have been former NYCM
> winner German Silva, and ran with LANCE almost the whole way. The only
> one of these I noticed crossing the finish line was El Guerrouj. I
> never noticed Alberto Salazar, who was mentioned in some media stories.
>
> I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
> strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
> much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
> athletes really like him;


They like him--they REALLY LIKE HIM!!

Steve


(c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
> achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
> I have no idea which applies...
>



--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
 
On 6 Nov 2006 11:07:57 -0800, "Rik Van Diesel"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Howard Kveck wrote:
>> Going through the thread "Armstrong's NYC marathon time?" we see the following
>> picks for time:
>>
>> BJC at 2:35
>> Cowpunk at 2:55
>> RJK3 at "under 2:40: the question is by how much"
>> Joedopebucket said "I will be impressed if he does it under 3 hours."
>> Kyle Legate clocked in with "Who cares?"
>> Miley90 estimated 3:07-3:12
>> Rik Van Diesel guessed 2:44
>> Dwayne thought matching Jaja's 2:55 would be good but beating 2:42 (a time turned in
>> by Rolf Aldag in his marthon debut) would be a compulsive Lance's line.
>> Rik Van Diesel changed to a 2:40
>> Ryan Cousineau went with a "supermotivated" 2:34
>> Ewoud Dronkert went with a 3:10
>> Phil Holman said 2:57
>> Michael Press at 2:35
>> Mark Fenelli at 2:50
>> Ben Weiner talked about rbr-LANCE drug use scenarios
>>
>> Since he ran a 2:59:37, I'd say that Joedopebucket is now officially impressed
>> (if only just), Phil Holman came closest with actual numbers and Ryan Cousineau gets
>> the Alex Trebekian "Oooh..."
>>
>> Noted that Nike provided three elite-level marathoneers to pace him. Did they
>> peel off as they approached the line or did they get to sprint away at the end?
>>
>> --
>> tanx,
>> Howard
>>
>> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>>
>> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

>
>Thanks you for the summary. I was WAY off. Lance is soft and slow! My
>wife would have beaten his sorry ass. Why is it that any time someone
>competes in a sport they haven't spent their life training for and then
>subsequently suck they turn around and say this is the hardest sport
>ever. So weak! Think Michael Jordan at baseball, then Golf..
>
>RVD


Watching him run, it was hard to believe he had ever been good at short
course Triathlons, he just wasn't moving like a even a good recreational
runner.

(Trying hard not to be controversial), hypothetically, if someone had
always relied on PEDs, maybe they'd underestimate the necessary training
and overestimate their ability?

I do feel empathy for him. He clearly likes to go out and run and ride but
he can't enter any bike races for fear that people would diss him. And if
he goes and runs and doesn't win, then people get on him for that. Yeah, I
know, poor Lance.
 
nobody wrote:
>
> Watching him run, it was hard to believe he had ever been good at short
> course Triathlons, he just wasn't moving like a even a good recreational
> runner.






Dumbass -


Sitting on one's ass on a bike seat 5 hours/day for X years will do
that to you.

It's happened to many of us runners turned cyclists.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.
 
On 6 Nov 2006 12:32:17 -0800, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>nobody wrote:
>>
>> Watching him run, it was hard to believe he had ever been good at short
>> course Triathlons, he just wasn't moving like a even a good recreational
>> runner.

>
>


>
>Dumbass -
>
>
>Sitting on one's ass on a bike seat 5 hours/day for X years will do
>that to you.
>
>It's happened to many of us runners turned cyclists.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>K. Gringioni.


Dumbasses,

We'll not even discuss the pedalling technique of
runners-recently-turned riders (not to mention some tri-guys bike
handling skills). OK, gotta go hit the rollers to get that picture out
of my head.
 
On 6 Nov 2006 12:32:17 -0800, "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>nobody wrote:
>>
>> Watching him run, it was hard to believe he had ever been good at short
>> course Triathlons, he just wasn't moving like a even a good recreational
>> runner.

>
>
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>
>Sitting on one's ass on a bike seat 5 hours/day for X years will do
>that to you.
>
>It's happened to many of us runners turned cyclists.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>K. Gringioni.


Uh-huh. He also had some hip problems, iirc, and actually had a dislocate
that his masseur had to fix, iirc. Guess it's like riding a horse and
becoming bow-legged?
 
On 6 Nov 2006 07:17:27 -0800, "Dwayne" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
>strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
>much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
>athletes really like him; (c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
>achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
>I have no idea which applies...


A and C for sure, and maybe a bit of B for people like that.

That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
what this is about? It's just a 40K run.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
Howard Kveck wrote:
> he ran a 2:59:37


He was bonking and about to concede a 3:05, but then his team told him
that Simeoni was ahead of him, so Armstrong tried to chase him down.
 
> That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
> running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
> helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
> that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
> get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
> some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
> what this is about? It's just a 40K run.


To be fair, the TV coverage spent quite a bit of time talking about runners
who pay "rabbits" to help pace them for the first 16 miles or so, and then
drop out. This caught me off guard; it was entirely new to me.

But that's a bit different than having someone physically help you by
essentially fetching your water bottles and feed bags (which is closer to
what it sounds like Lance was having done for him).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 6 Nov 2006 07:17:27 -0800, "Dwayne" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
>>strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
>>much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
>>athletes really like him; (c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
>>achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
>>I have no idea which applies...

>
> A and C for sure, and maybe a bit of B for people like that.
>
> That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
> running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
> helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
> that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
> get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
> some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
> what this is about? It's just a 40K run.
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
> > running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
> > helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
> > that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
> > get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
> > some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
> > what this is about? It's just a 40K run.

>
> To be fair, the TV coverage spent quite a bit of time talking about runners
> who pay "rabbits" to help pace them for the first 16 miles or so, and then
> drop out. This caught me off guard; it was entirely new to me.
>
> But that's a bit different than having someone physically help you by
> essentially fetching your water bottles and feed bags (which is closer to
> what it sounds like Lance was having done for him).


Can you blame the guy? He isn't used to it, he hasn't had to
fetch his own bottle and musette since 1993 or so. Around
mile 20 he was probably cracking, bonking and looking over
his shoulder for handups from the team car.

Ben
and I still haven't figured out where to bolt the bottle
cages when running in hot weather
 
On 6 Nov 2006 16:31:59 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> > That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
>> > running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
>> > helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
>> > that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
>> > get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
>> > some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
>> > what this is about? It's just a 40K run.

>>
>> To be fair, the TV coverage spent quite a bit of time talking about runners
>> who pay "rabbits" to help pace them for the first 16 miles or so, and then
>> drop out. This caught me off guard; it was entirely new to me.
>>
>> But that's a bit different than having someone physically help you by
>> essentially fetching your water bottles and feed bags (which is closer to
>> what it sounds like Lance was having done for him).

>
>Can you blame the guy? He isn't used to it, he hasn't had to
>fetch his own bottle and musette since 1993 or so. Around
>mile 20 he was probably cracking, bonking and looking over
>his shoulder for handups from the team car.


Too funny. I can see it now:

"Hello, Joan? This is Lance. I might need your help in the NYC marathon.

"Water"

"Yeah, when I try I keep crashing into the tables. Can you help?"


>Ben
>and I still haven't figured out where to bolt the bottle
>cages when running in hot weather
 
On 6 Nov 2006 16:31:59 -0800, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> > That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
>> > running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
>> > helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
>> > that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
>> > get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
>> > some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
>> > what this is about? It's just a 40K run.

>>
>> To be fair, the TV coverage spent quite a bit of time talking about runners
>> who pay "rabbits" to help pace them for the first 16 miles or so, and then
>> drop out. This caught me off guard; it was entirely new to me.
>>
>> But that's a bit different than having someone physically help you by
>> essentially fetching your water bottles and feed bags (which is closer to
>> what it sounds like Lance was having done for him).

>
>Can you blame the guy? He isn't used to it, he hasn't had to
>fetch his own bottle and musette since 1993 or so. Around
>mile 20 he was probably cracking, bonking and looking over
>his shoulder for handups from the team car.


Firm grip on the bottle, eh?

>Ben
>and I still haven't figured out where to bolt the bottle
>cages when running in hot weather


I see guys strapping them around their necks. Only a runner would do that.

Ron
 
The runners don't pay the rabbits. Their paid by the race organization.
This is a frequent occurrence in track races.


"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
>> running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
>> helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
>> that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
>> get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
>> some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
>> what this is about? It's just a 40K run.

>
> To be fair, the TV coverage spent quite a bit of time talking about
> runners who pay "rabbits" to help pace them for the first 16 miles or so,
> and then drop out. This caught me off guard; it was entirely new to me.
>
> But that's a bit different than having someone physically help you by
> essentially fetching your water bottles and feed bags (which is closer to
> what it sounds like Lance was having done for him).
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 6 Nov 2006 07:17:27 -0800, "Dwayne" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I found the sight of El G and Joanie fetching refreshments very
>>>strange. Either (a) Nike doled out huge payola to them; (b) LANCE is a
>>>much nicer guy than it appears from media reports, and these other
>>>athletes really like him; (c) LANCE is so highly respected for his
>>>achievements that athletics superstars want to fetch him drinks and GU.
>>>I have no idea which applies...

>>
>> A and C for sure, and maybe a bit of B for people like that.
>>
>> That said, I was vaguely offended by the whole thing. Here's this guy
>> running moderately fast but having all these icons and other people
>> helping him? Is that what it's about? Who else does the run like
>> that. The elites sure don't - they get special bottles but do they
>> get a posse to help them. Normal athletes don't either. I imagine
>> some very physically challenged athletes get that support. Is that
>> what this is about? It's just a 40K run.
>>
>> --
>> JT
>> ****************************
>> Remove "remove" to reply
>> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
>> ****************************

>
>
>
 

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