Retro Shimano indexing question

[[email protected]]

Guys

I have just picked up an old Colnago 'Super' frame with a 6-speed Dura
Ace (7400) groupset, except for the 105 brake levers and Campag
headset/bottom bracket. I think the frame is late 80s and the groupset
mid-80s??

It has no wheels which is fine as I have my almost unused race wheels
from 1990/91.

My main question is that my wheels have Ultegra hubs with a 7 speed HG
cassette, is the best way to make this work to pick up some Ultegra 7
speed downtube shifters from the period (and add a 7 speed
chain)............I would like Dura Ace ones from the period ideally
(740x 7 speed)but think they used UG cassettes with differant cog/index
spacing.......is this correct??

Also any info on the Colnago tubing would be interesting, it just has a
colnago sticker on it, no mention of SL/SLX etc.

Regards


David

 

[MSeries]

[email protected] wrote:
> Guys
>
> I have just picked up an old Colnago 'Super' frame with a 6-speed Dura
> Ace (7400) groupset, except for the 105 brake levers and Campag
> headset/bottom bracket. I think the frame is late 80s and the groupset
> mid-80s??
>
> It has no wheels which is fine as I have my almost unused race wheels
> from 1990/91.
>
> My main question is that my wheels have Ultegra hubs with a 7 speed HG
> cassette, is the best way to make this work to pick up some Ultegra 7
> speed downtube shifters from the period (and add a 7 speed
> chain)............I would like Dura Ace ones from the period ideally
> (740x 7 speed)but think they used UG cassettes with differant cog/index
> spacing.......is this correct??
>
> Also any info on the Colnago tubing would be interesting, it just has a
> colnago sticker on it, no mention of SL/SLX etc.
>
> Regards
>
>
> David

UG sprocket spacing is the same as HG.

 

[Nate Knutson]

[email protected] wrote:
> Guys
>
> I have just picked up an old Colnago 'Super' frame with a 6-speed Dura
> Ace (7400) groupset, except for the 105 brake levers and Campag
> headset/bottom bracket. I think the frame is late 80s and the groupset
> mid-80s??
>
> It has no wheels which is fine as I have my almost unused race wheels
> from 1990/91.
>
> My main question is that my wheels have Ultegra hubs with a 7 speed HG
> cassette, is the best way to make this work to pick up some Ultegra 7
> speed downtube shifters from the period (and add a 7 speed
> chain)............I would like Dura Ace ones from the period ideally
> (740x 7 speed)but think they used UG cassettes with differant cog/index
> spacing.......is this correct??

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

Nope. The cog spacing is the same for all Shimano cassettes of a given
number of cogs. What's different about all pre-1997 (pre-7700) DA is
that the shifters and derailers are based on a different amount of
cable travel than anything else.

Since you have a 7400 rear derailer, you only need to find some
7400-era 7 speed DA downtube shifters... which I think means any 7
speed DA shifter, since the post-97 ones were meaninglessly labeled
Ultegra or 105 or just say Shimano, but I'm not 100% about this. This
combination will shift any Shimano 7 speed cassette.

> Also any info on the Colnago tubing would be interesting, it just has a
> colnago sticker on it, no mention of SL/SLX etc.
>
> Regards
>
>
> David

 

[Helmut Springer]

MSeries <[email protected]> wrote:
> UG sprocket spacing is the same as HG.

At least my UG 8x DuraAce spacer feature the same 3mm as all 8x HG
ones.

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

 

[Nate Knutson]

> Since you have a 7400 rear derailer, you only need to find some
> 7400-era 7 speed DA downtube shifters... which I think means any 7
> speed DA shifter, since the post-97 ones were meaninglessly labeled
> Ultegra or 105 or just say Shimano, but I'm not 100% about this.

This should have read "any 7 speed DA DOWNTUBE shifter."

 

[Helmut Springer]

Nate Knutson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Since you have a 7400 rear derailer, you only need to find some
> 7400-era 7 speed DA downtube shifters... which I think means any 7
> speed DA shifter, since the post-97 ones were meaninglessly

As the 740? rear derailer have a different geometry they will
perform 8x steps with 9x cable pull. Given that many people shift
7x cassettes with 8x shifters without problems you might give any 9x
Shimano shifter a try...if it works there are 9x downtube shifters
available (happen to be DuraAce, but 9x is all the same pull
anyway).


--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> Guys
>
> I have just picked up an old Colnago 'Super' frame with a 6-speed Dura
> Ace (7400) groupset, except for the 105 brake levers and Campag
> headset/bottom bracket. I think the frame is late 80s and the groupset
> mid-80s??
>
> It has no wheels which is fine as I have my almost unused race wheels
> from 1990/91.
>
> My main question is that my wheels have Ultegra hubs with a 7 speed HG
> cassette, is the best way to make this work to pick up some Ultegra 7
> speed downtube shifters from the period (and add a 7 speed
> chain)............I would like Dura Ace ones from the period ideally
> (740x 7 speed)but think they used UG cassettes with differant cog/index
> spacing.......is this correct??

Keep the shifters you have, use a HG wheel, spacer on first then 6, 7
or 8s loose cogs, with 7s spacers. Adjust the rear der-go ride.
>
> Also any info on the Colnago tubing would be interesting, it just has a
> colnago sticker on it, no mention of SL/SLX etc.
>
> Regards
>
>
> David

 

[Jay Beattie]

"Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Guys
> >
> > I have just picked up an old Colnago 'Super' frame with a
6-speed Dura
> > Ace (7400) groupset, except for the 105 brake levers and
Campag
> > headset/bottom bracket. I think the frame is late 80s and
the groupset
> > mid-80s??
> >
> > It has no wheels which is fine as I have my almost unused
race wheels
> > from 1990/91.
> >
> > My main question is that my wheels have Ultegra hubs with a
7 speed HG
> > cassette, is the best way to make this work to pick up some
Ultegra 7
> > speed downtube shifters from the period (and add a 7 speed
> > chain)............I would like Dura Ace ones from the period
ideally
> > (740x 7 speed)but think they used UG cassettes with differant
cog/index
> > spacing.......is this correct??
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
>
> Nope. The cog spacing is the same for all Shimano cassettes of
a given
> number of cogs. What's different about all pre-1997 (pre-7700)
DA is
> that the shifters and derailers are based on a different amount
of
> cable travel than anything else.
>
> Since you have a 7400 rear derailer, you only need to find some
> 7400-era 7 speed DA downtube shifters... which I think means
any 7
> speed DA shifter, since the post-97 ones were meaninglessly
labeled
> Ultegra or 105 or just say Shimano, but I'm not 100% about
this. This
> combination will shift any Shimano 7 speed cassette.
>
> > Also any info on the Colnago tubing would be interesting, it
just has a
> > colnago sticker on it, no mention of SL/SLX etc.

The mid-80s Dura Ace 6 and 7 sp cogs were loose and have a
different spline pattern to match the channels on the UG cassette
body. The cassette body also uses a different remover tool, and
upgrading to HG is more expensive than buying a new hub.

If the OP is interested, I have a bunch of 7sp Dura Ace UG cogs,
a very lightly used Dura Ace 7sp hub, a derailleur (I think) and
some DT shifters (I think -- not sure on that one. I could
look).

I much preferred the loose cogs and thought it was a mistake to
go to the riveted-together cogs, although it does yeild some
weight savings. It was nice to have the Fisher-Price stack 'em
up cassette -- sort of like the old Regina Oro days except a lot
better. I quit buying Dura Ace about then because it was ungodly
expensive, it changed every year, and Shimano did not care about
compatability with 600 (Ultegra). -- Jay Beattie

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On 19 Jan 2006 04:04:27 -0800, "Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Nope. The cog spacing is the same for all Shimano cassettes of a given
>number of cogs. What's different about all pre-1997 (pre-7700) DA is
>that the shifters and derailers are based on a different amount of
>cable travel than anything else.

Basically everything DA 8 and less. DA9 and up is in line with the rest of
shimano, DA8 and under isn't.

Jasper