Return on sponsorship

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Russ Baxter, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. Russ Baxter

    Russ Baxter Guest

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  2. Nev Shea

    Nev Shea Guest

    [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942 @posting.google.com:

    > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among
    > other things.
    >
    > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm

    The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.

    But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that made
    him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible for
    the Team Coast fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach at best, but I think the
    author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering that the LA story has been credited with
    saving cycling after the doping scandals.

    But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising value
    . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because he sure manages to get a lot of
    publicity.

    NS
     
  3. Nev Shea <[email protected]> wrote:

    > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that made
    > him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible
    > for the Team Coast fiasco.

    I have a friend who is in the professional golf circuit. In their field, Woods has hurt the game in
    the sense that for tournaments in which Woods is not playing, attendance is a lot lower than it used
    to be, and interest non-existent. Maybe that's where the author got the idea from.

    Didier

    --
    Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
    http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
    University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
     
  4. Jeff Potter

    Jeff Potter Guest

    It's hilarious the bedfellows (Kurgan?) that business and sports make.

    Whereas ("-as"...he said "as"...Kurgan?) with amateur sports all you need is what happens and a good
    storyteller to captivate however many folks want to tune into it or check it out.

    --

    Jeff Potter
    ****
    *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com for modern folkways and culture revival...
    ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies... ...new books featuring: XC ski
    culture, a Gulf Coast thriller folding bicycles ... with radical novels coming up! ...original
    downloadable music ... and articles galore! plus national "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums!
    HOLY SMOKES!
     
  5. Bill Laudien

    Bill Laudien Guest

    Sportsbook.com would not have a team were it not for the added publicity generated by Lance
    Armstrong and the trickle down effect that has generated additional press coverage and the existance
    of races such as NYC and San Fran.

    That being said, I can see the difficulty for a company such as Navigators or Prime Allience when
    they have solid, big budget teams animating a race such as Philadelphia, with riders in the break,
    and the coverage cuts away from the race itself to do a 5 minute piece on Lance and Hincappe,
    neither of whom are in the race. And in both New York and San Francisco last year, most of the
    interviews and post race attention didn't go to Saturn or 7-UP, but went to US Postal and Lance who
    were also rans in those events.

    When the first couple of questions fired at Charles Dionne after winning America's biggest race are,
    "what did you think about how Lance rode ?" and " how does it feel to beat Lance ?", I can
    understand the ideas presented in the article.


    Nev Shea <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942 @posting.google.com:
    >
    > > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among other
    > > things.
    > >
    > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm
    >
    > The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.
    >
    > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that made
    > him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible
    > for the Team Coast fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach at best, but I
    > think the author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering that the LA story has been
    > credited with saving cycling after the doping scandals.
    >
    > But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising value
    > . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because he sure manages to get a lot of
    > publicity.
    >
    > NS
     
  6. Joe Navratil

    Joe Navratil Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Didier A. Depireux wrote:
    >
    > I have a friend who is in the professional golf circuit. In their field, Woods has hurt the game
    > in the sense that for tournaments in which Woods is not playing, attendance is a lot lower than it
    > used to be, and interest non-existent. Maybe that's where the author got the idea from.
    >

    I know you weren't defending it, but that analogy strikes me as highly suspect. Lance is really good
    at winning one race a year; Woods wins on a regular basis (well, he used to). Was the interest in
    the Giro any less in Europe this year than it was a decade ago?

    Off topic:

    Have you ever asked your friend what the annual tour prize money was like pre-Tiger, versus the
    prize money now? Is attendance actually lower at non-Tiger tourneys, or is it simply flat and
    therefore proportionally lower since a lot of people who wouldn't normally watch golf decide to
    check out Tiger on a whim?

    It's tough to compare individual sports to team sports, but I don't remember hearing anyone say that
    Michael Jordan was bad for basketball because the only time the Bullets/Wizards sold more than 5000
    tickets was when the Bulls were in town.

    ISTR reading that golf TV contracts -- which are directly related to the tournament prize money --
    have exploded since Woods came onto the golf scene. I find it hard to consider that "hurting the
    game". But then, I don't play.

    -Joe
     
  7. Nev Shea

    Nev Shea Guest

    [email protected] (Bill Laudien) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > Sportsbook.com would not have a team were it not for the added publicity generated by Lance
    > Armstrong and the trickle down effect that has generated additional press coverage and the
    > existance of races such as NYC and San Fran.

    Bingo! And the additional coverage is exactly what makes it attractive to sponsors, therefore
    contradicting the author's argument.

    > That being said, I can see the difficulty for a company such as Navigators or Prime Allience when
    > they have solid, big budget teams animating a race such as Philadelphia, with riders in the break,
    > and the coverage cuts away from the race itself to do a 5 minute piece on Lance and Hincappe,
    > neither of whom are in the race. And in both New York and San Francisco last year, most of the
    > interviews and post race attention didn't go to Saturn or 7-UP, but went to US Postal and Lance
    > who were also rans in those events.

    These are good points, and support the article's measure of advertising value to Postal. I suppose
    the folks at Navigators et al probably have numbers that show viewership for the events over the
    past few years; if those numbers show increased interest in the sport, then they probably don't mind
    OLN cutting away for 5 minutes to worship the man responsible for it if their advertising value has
    gone up too.

    > When the first couple of questions fired at Charles Dionne after winning America's biggest race
    > are, "what did you think about how Lance rode ?" and " how does it feel to beat Lance ?", I can
    > understand the ideas presented in the article.

    Really? Because I think this example contradicts it. You've already made the point that the race
    probably wouldn't exist without the Lance effect and he amplifies the media attention as well.
    Would Dionne prefer all that attention with questions about beating Lance, or would he rather
    answer racing questions from just the local media and a stringer from rbr? Beating Lance Armstrong
    makes this the biggest day in Charles Dionne's career so far, and it's something he'll tell his
    grandkids about.

    To me, this premise that Lance is bad for the sport is like finding $100, and then being upset
    because you'll have to figure out how to spend it.

    NS
     
  8. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    It's almost comical to read this sort of stuff. Lance wins a couple of races a year and he is said
    to dominate. Jalabert was winning three dozen races a year and no one knew who the hell he was.

    "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in
    news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942
    > @posting.google.com:
    >
    > > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among other
    > > things.
    > >
    > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm
    >
    > The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.
    >
    > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may
    be
    > hurting the sport that made him a global star" and goes on to imply
    that
    > LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible for the Team
    Coast
    > fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach at
    best, but
    > I think the author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering
    that
    > the LA story has been credited with saving cycling after the doping scandals.
    >
    > But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising
    value
    > . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because
    he
    > suremanages to get a lot of publicity.
    >
    > NS
     
  9. Lewdvig

    Lewdvig Guest

  10. Lewdvig

    Lewdvig Guest

    I agree. If Lance raises the profile of cycling enough to get props from Jim Rome than how can
    this be bad?

    The stupid UCI Italian and French police are the problem with cycling. When Mapei quits, you know
    something stinks and it ain't the drug.

    "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942 @posting.google.com:
    >
    > > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among other
    > > things.
    > >
    > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm
    >
    > The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.
    >
    > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that made
    > him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible
    > for the Team Coast fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach at best, but I
    > think the author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering that the LA story has been
    > credited with saving cycling after the doping scandals.
    >
    > But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising value
    > . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because he suremanages to get a lot of
    > publicity.
    >
    > NS
     
  11. Lewdvig

    Lewdvig Guest

    Except us. And to JaJa, the respect of his fans, peers and countrymen was enough.

    Its going to suck not having him around.

    "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > It's almost comical to read this sort of stuff. Lance wins a couple of races a year and he is said
    > to dominate. Jalabert was winning three dozen races a year and no one knew who the hell he was.
    >
    > "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in
    > news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942
    > > @posting.google.com:
    > >
    > > > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among other
    > > > things.
    > > >
    > > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm
    > >
    > > The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.
    > >
    > > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may
    > be
    > > hurting the sport that made him a global star" and goes on to imply
    > that
    > > LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow responsible for the Team
    > Coast
    > > fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach at
    > best, but
    > > I think the author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering
    > that
    > > the LA story has been credited with saving cycling after the doping scandals.
    > >
    > > But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising
    > value
    > > . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because
    > he
    > > suremanages to get a lot of publicity.
    > >
    > > NS
    >
     
  12. Lewdvig

    Lewdvig Guest

    Lance only draws at the Tour because that is the only place where he tries to win.

    If I go to Paris Roubaix I want to see Museuw. No?

    I think the writer should have called up an editor at Velonews for some expert opinion.

    "Didier A. Depireux" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Nev Shea <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that
    > > made him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow
    > > responsible for the Team Coast fiasco.
    >
    > I have a friend who is in the professional golf circuit. In their field, Woods has hurt the game
    > in the sense that for tournaments in which Woods
    is
    > not playing, attendance is a lot lower than it used to be, and interest non-existent. Maybe that's
    > where the author got the idea from.
    >
    > Didier
    >
    > --
    > Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
    > http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
    > University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
     
  13. Lewdvig

    Lewdvig Guest

    I like Lance a lot - but he really should take a crack at some of the 'lesser' races in the US.

    "Bill Laudien" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Sportsbook.com would not have a team were it not for the added publicity generated by Lance
    > Armstrong and the trickle down effect that has generated additional press coverage and the
    > existance of races such as NYC and San Fran.
    >
    > That being said, I can see the difficulty for a company such as Navigators or Prime Allience when
    > they have solid, big budget teams animating a race such as Philadelphia, with riders in the break,
    > and the coverage cuts away from the race itself to do a 5 minute piece on Lance and Hincappe,
    > neither of whom are in the race. And in both New York and San Francisco last year, most of the
    > interviews and post race attention didn't go to Saturn or 7-UP, but went to US Postal and Lance
    > who were also rans in those events.
    >
    > When the first couple of questions fired at Charles Dionne after winning America's biggest race
    > are, "what did you think about how Lance rode ?" and " how does it feel to beat Lance ?", I can
    > understand the ideas presented in the article.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Nev Shea <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote in news:c00af3.0306260530.58708942 @posting.google.com:
    > >
    > > > From Business Week, a discussion of the value of Armstrong to the Postal Service, among other
    > > > things.
    > > >
    > > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_26/b3839046.htm
    > >
    > > The part on Lance's advertising value was interesting.
    > >
    > > But then he starts a paragraph saying "But Armstrong's success may be hurting the sport that
    > > made him a global star" and goes on to imply that LA dominating 1 race a year is somehow
    > > responsible for the Team Coast fiasco. This notion of LA being bad for the sport is a reach
    > > at best,
    but
    > > I think the author just pulled this notion from his ass, considering
    that
    > > the LA story has been credited with saving cycling after the doping scandals.
    > >
    > > But still, the article makes me want to know more about advertising
    value
    > > . . . I'd really like to know Pantani's advertising value, because he sure manages to get a lot
    > > of publicity.
    > >
    > > NS
     
  14. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    Lewdvig wrote:
    >
    > I like Lance a lot - but he really should take a crack at some of the 'lesser' races in the US.

    'Lance a lot'

    heh heh
     
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