Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

[Peter Clinch]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> I just like knowing I have my lights at the ready any time I get on my
> bike.

Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
back together and... it worked. <bof>

So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
perfect!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[SMS]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
> of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
> earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
> perfect!

Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
batteries. Even with a dynamo light, for a back-up you should always
carry a small LED flashlight (torch) and a way to mount it to the
handlebars (see "http://nordicgroup.us/s78/flashlights.html").

The Fenix L2DCE is an amazing flashlight. An excellent beam for
bicycling, better than most dynamo lights (other than the SolidLights),
as well as being small and light. Not cheap at $53.50.

Steve
"http://bicyclelighting.com"
Earth's Source for Bicycle Lighting Information

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:
>
> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> batteries.

Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.

> Even with a dynamo light, for a back-up you should always
> carry a small LED flashlight (torch) and a way to mount it to the
> handlebars

I have a wee light anyway on the bars that I can thumb on as an
auxiliary standlight. It's also a good idea to have an emergency spare
along, as one genuine disadvantage of a dynamo setup is it's useless for
helping you fix punctures in the dark. A head-lamp is much the best for
fixing punctures.

> The Fenix L2DCE is an amazing flashlight. An excellent beam for
> bicycling, better than most dynamo lights (other than the SolidLights),
> as well as being small and light. Not cheap at $53.50.

That'll be $53.50 it's not worth me spending then. I don't really care
if the beam is better than my lamps, because my lamps are perfectly
adequate for what I want, and the batteries never run down!.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[SMS]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>> batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.

Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights. The cost and
reliability makes it an unattractive option. I'd literally spend more on
a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered.

Quite a lot of people, is the real world answer. It's no more stupid to
forget spare cells than it is to forget lights altogether, but there are
plenty of people who've managed that at one time or another. I'm sure
/you're/ perfect, but you really should give other people some credit
for not being quite that organised.

> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights.

The only reason to have 3 Brommies is each one is set up for different
jobs (unless you really /are/ dumb), in which case you wouldn't
necessarily want all 3 with lights.

> The cost and
> reliability makes it an unattractive option.

But nobody's trying to force you to take that option, or say the lamps
will be "inadequate" if you do, or if you're in Mode X then it is
clearly the best thing for anyone to do. You'll probably round this off
as you usually do by claiming you're doing no such thing either, and
then quote some "facts" by "experts" that imply exactly what you say you
don't say...

> I'd literally spend more on
> a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
> I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
> ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
for a perfectly adequate lighting setup. Even in the remarkably
expensive UK and at the current 2:1 exchange rate it's easy to get a
good dynohub (i.e., the Shimano 371) and acceptable accompaniment for
less than that, so either you're being disingenuous or you're talking
rubbish. Again.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[SMS]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>
>> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
>> cells if their light is AA powered.
>
> Quite a lot of people, is the real world answer. It's no more stupid to
> forget spare cells than it is to forget lights altogether, but there are
> plenty of people who've managed that at one time or another. I'm sure
> /you're/ perfect, but you really should give other people some credit
> for not being quite that organised.
>
>> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights.
>
> The only reason to have 3 Brommies is each one is set up for different
> jobs (unless you really /are/ dumb), in which case you wouldn't
> necessarily want all 3 with lights.

Hmm, could it be that they are used for more than one person? Nah,
that's too obvious. I also find that they're a great bicycle to lend to
visitors (responsible visitors!) that want to do a ride and that have to
transport the bicycles in their vehicle.

> If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
> millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
> for a perfectly adequate lighting setup.

Yes, the problem is that "perfectly adequate" is a pretty low benchmark.

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 18, 11:13 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> >> batteries.
>
> > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> > I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> > used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> > weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

Oh, please! Who expects that their AA batteries will conveniently run
out directly in front of an all-night convenience store?

For the record: I've led night rides for my bike club for, oh, about
ten years. Not very frequently - probably about three or four such
rides in most of those years. They've drawn anywhere from three to 15
riders each time.

Until this year, each and every ride had _some_ problem with someone's
battery light. The most common problem was just running out of
disposable battery juice - with the comment being "I thought those
batteries were new!" Another problem was with rechargeable batteries
- "Gee, last time I used this battery, it lasted a lot longer before
it died out." We've had handlebar-mounted C-cell lights fly apart
when a rider hit a big bump. We've had a flashlight mounted as a
headlight get into the front wheel spokes and throw a rider, cracking
her rib. Because of these (and similar) experiences, I never lead
such a ride without packing extra headlights to use as loaners.

Now, admittedly, there have been only about six of us who have used
generator lights on these rides. But the generator lights have been
perfectly reliable, every time.

The ride last month had four riders, one of whom - a new rider - was
using a small LED bike light powered by (I think) AA batteries. No
particular problems that ride - except that they guy found out that
his AA light was just not bright enough. Certainly, it was nowhere
near my generator set's illumination.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 18, 10:38 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 18, 11:13 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Peter Clinch wrote:
> > > SMS wrote:
> > >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> > >> batteries.
>
> > > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> > > I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> > > used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> > > weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> > Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> > cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> > or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.
>
> Oh, please! Who expects that their AA batteries will conveniently run
> out directly in front of an all-night convenience store?
>
> For the record: I've led night rides for my bike club for, oh, about
> ten years. Not very frequently - probably about three or four such
> rides in most of those years. They've drawn anywhere from three to 15
> riders each time.
>
> Until this year, each and every ride had _some_ problem with someone's
> battery light. The most common problem was just running out of
> disposable battery juice - with the comment being "I thought those
> batteries were new!" Another problem was with rechargeable batteries
> - "Gee, last time I used this battery, it lasted a lot longer before
> it died out." We've had handlebar-mounted C-cell lights fly apart
> when a rider hit a big bump. We've had a flashlight mounted as a
> headlight get into the front wheel spokes and throw a rider, cracking
> her rib. Because of these (and similar) experiences, I never lead
> such a ride without packing extra headlights to use as loaners.
>
> Now, admittedly, there have been only about six of us who have used
> generator lights on these rides. But the generator lights have been
> perfectly reliable, every time.
>
> The ride last month had four riders, one of whom - a new rider - was
> using a small LED bike light powered by (I think) AA batteries. No
> particular problems that ride - except that they guy found out that
> his AA light was just not bright enough. Certainly, it was nowhere
> near my generator set's illumination.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

If you need to carry a battery-operated spare, I can't think of one
that's a better value than this one:

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_...T<>prd_id=845524442621577&bmUID=1190131782373

I got some for my kids...and I keep one in my pannier, with one
battery reversed, JUST IN CASE. But I have yet to have hub gen
problems...(knocks on wood)

 

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>>> batteries.
>>
>> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
>> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
>> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
>> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
> Oh please, who is dumb enough on a night ride to not pack a couple of AA
> cells if their light is AA powered. Or if in the city, to stop at a 7-11
> or whatever all-night store is in your country to buy a couple of cells.

Ha! I know plenty of people just like that. I'd say it happens with
regular occurence with my current riding group.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
because breakfast is the most important meal of the day.

 

[SMS]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
>> batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.

Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
your dynamo lights. How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
diagnose the problem and fix it. It sounds like you never actually found
the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

 

[Tony Raven]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
> night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
> immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
> clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
> attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
> back together and... it worked. <bof>
>

That's electrickery for you.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

 

[SMS]

Tony Raven wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>> Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
>> night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
>> immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
>> clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
>> attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
>> back together and... it worked. <bof>
>>
>
> That's electrickery for you.

Well the amazing thing is that he didn't have a multimeter with him to
troubleshoot it on the spot. How much are multimeters in the U.K.? In
the U.S. you can get a small digital multimeter for under $3 on sale
(and they are constantly on sale). If you're going to use dynamo lights
then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to
facilitate troubleshooting. You can check the continuity of the bulb
filament, you can check the wiring, even check the dynamo output voltage.

I bought ten of the $3 multimeters to teach Ohm's law on "enrichment
day" at my son's school. Of course the 4th graders were soon measuring
the resistance of themselves, but at least some of them got the
voltage/current/resistance relationship. Maybe I should have started
with something simpler, like how to troubleshoot bicycle lights.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>
>> I'd literally spend more on
>> a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
>> I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
>> ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).
>
>If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
>millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
>for a perfectly adequate lighting setup. Even in the remarkably
>expensive UK and at the current 2:1 exchange rate it's easy to get a
>good dynohub (i.e., the Shimano 371)

But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/DA6SP019.html
might do it (I think it's this: http://www.dahon.co.uk/l-dynamo.htm)
but the only dynohub option listed in the Brompton brochure is the SON.
(The "2.4V/3W" looks unlikely though. Typo for 2.4W and 3W options which
the page doesn't let you choose between, maybe?)

So in the specific case of the Brompton, there's some excuse for choosing
the most expensive option (at least if you have to deal with the sort of
slush where a bottle dynamo often slips).

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 18, 12:54 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> >> batteries.
>
> > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
>
> Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
> your dynamo lights. How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
> diagnose the problem and fix it. It sounds like you never actually found
> the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
> cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
> lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
> one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Let's count "points of failure" for a generator set and for a
rechargeable light set of the type Scharf insistently pushes.

There are two wire connections at the generator. Ditto for the
rechargeable battery. No difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the headlight for either unit. No
difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the switch of the battery unit.
There is no switch needed for most generator setups. Two less "points
of failure" for generators.

The rechargeable setups require disconnecting wires frequently for
recharging. This is probably the reason that we hear many tales of
connectors going bad. Likewise, AA-style battery lights have
internal, spring-contact battery contacts that sometimes corrode,
sometimes lose contact. Generator contacts are fixed, not normally
disconnected, so fewer such problems. Another less frequent "point of
failure" for generators.

Both units usually feature wire to connect from the voltage source to
the lamp. Wires can break, but generator wires are usually
permanently fastened in place, meaning much less flexing, and probably
less breaking. Less failure for generators.

Rechargeable batteries have limited life, measured in hundreds of
charges. Generators' lives are measured in mulitiple decades. Less
failure for generators.

Rechargeable setups need a charger - often, a relatively expensive
electronic "smart charger." That brings in the possibility of the
charger's wiring failures, electronic failures, etc. No such failures
with generators.

So what are the "points of failure" you're talking about for generator
sets?

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.

Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.

Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
to troubleshoot lights in the field!

I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
want to know what your voltage is.

But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

 

[SMS]

Andy M-S wrote:
> On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> to troubleshoot lights in the field!

Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.

Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.

> I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> want to know what your voltage is.

Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
to be out longer than one battery will last.

> But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

Very wise.

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> Hmm, could it be that they are used for more than one person? Nah,
> that's too obvious.

It certainly isn't obvious if the "correct"solution is one set of
lights to transfer between them, because that way only one can over
go out at night. As is, errrrr, pretty obvious. And if it's for
three people, riding at night at the same time, they can all
contribute to the cost of the lighting, be it dynamo or battery.

> Yes, the problem is that "perfectly adequate" is a pretty low benchmark.

It is, by definition, a perfectly adequate one, however, so is thus
not actually a problem unless you choose to see it as one apropos
of nothing much except having a bee in your bonnet.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
> dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

Fair point: not many. Most just use bottles, and find them
perfectly acceptable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights. The cost and
> reliability makes it an unattractive option. I'd literally spend more
> on a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself,
> since I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the
> design ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

A poor argument, Steven, given the nonstandard nature of much of the
Brompton's design. While that's necessary to make it do what it does,
it does create a number of problems with retrofitting things like
generator hubs. However, bottle generators work just fine on Bromptons
and are quite popular in the UK.

 

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 18, 3:01 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy M-S wrote:
> > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> > Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> > Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> > that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> > are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> > to troubleshoot lights in the field!
>
> Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.
>
> Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
> had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
> it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.
>
> > I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> > want to know what your voltage is.
>
> Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
> they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
> you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
> to be out longer than one battery will last.
>
> > But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...
>
> Very wise.

Problem with some of the fanciest systems is that for reasons beyond
my comprehension, the control electronics run off the same battery as
the light head. The result is that when power drops below a certain
level, the fancy electronics start doing Bad Things. Not unlike the
Soviet Moon rocket (the N-1) they are overly complicated and sometimes
shut things down while they still ought to be working...