Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>
>> I'd literally spend more on
>> a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself, since
>> I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the design
>> ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).
>
>If you choose the most expensive possible options, perhaps, but as
>millions of people prove daily you don't need the most expensive option
>for a perfectly adequate lighting setup. Even in the remarkably
>expensive UK and at the current 2:1 exchange rate it's easy to get a
>good dynohub (i.e., the Shimano 371)

But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/DA6SP019.html
might do it (I think it's this: http://www.dahon.co.uk/l-dynamo.htm)
but the only dynohub option listed in the Brompton brochure is the SON.
(The "2.4V/3W" looks unlikely though. Typo for 2.4W and 3W options which
the page doesn't let you choose between, maybe?)

So in the specific case of the Brompton, there's some excuse for choosing
the most expensive option (at least if you have to deal with the sort of
slush where a bottle dynamo often slips).

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 18, 12:54 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >> Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> >> batteries.
>
> > Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
>
> Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
> your dynamo lights. How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
> diagnose the problem and fix it. It sounds like you never actually found
> the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
> cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
> lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
> one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Let's count "points of failure" for a generator set and for a
rechargeable light set of the type Scharf insistently pushes.

There are two wire connections at the generator. Ditto for the
rechargeable battery. No difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the headlight for either unit. No
difference in "points of failure."

There are two wire connections at the switch of the battery unit.
There is no switch needed for most generator setups. Two less "points
of failure" for generators.

The rechargeable setups require disconnecting wires frequently for
recharging. This is probably the reason that we hear many tales of
connectors going bad. Likewise, AA-style battery lights have
internal, spring-contact battery contacts that sometimes corrode,
sometimes lose contact. Generator contacts are fixed, not normally
disconnected, so fewer such problems. Another less frequent "point of
failure" for generators.

Both units usually feature wire to connect from the voltage source to
the lamp. Wires can break, but generator wires are usually
permanently fastened in place, meaning much less flexing, and probably
less breaking. Less failure for generators.

Rechargeable batteries have limited life, measured in hundreds of
charges. Generators' lives are measured in mulitiple decades. Less
failure for generators.

Rechargeable setups need a charger - often, a relatively expensive
electronic "smart charger." That brings in the possibility of the
charger's wiring failures, electronic failures, etc. No such failures
with generators.

So what are the "points of failure" you're talking about for generator
sets?

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

>If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.

Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.

Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
to troubleshoot lights in the field!

I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
want to know what your voltage is.

But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

 

[SMS]

Andy M-S wrote:
> On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> to troubleshoot lights in the field!

Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.

Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.

> I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> want to know what your voltage is.

Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
to be out longer than one battery will last.

> But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...

Very wise.

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> Hmm, could it be that they are used for more than one person? Nah,
> that's too obvious.

It certainly isn't obvious if the "correct"solution is one set of
lights to transfer between them, because that way only one can over
go out at night. As is, errrrr, pretty obvious. And if it's for
three people, riding at night at the same time, they can all
contribute to the cost of the lighting, be it dynamo or battery.

> Yes, the problem is that "perfectly adequate" is a pretty low benchmark.

It is, by definition, a perfectly adequate one, however, so is thus
not actually a problem unless you choose to see it as one apropos
of nothing much except having a bee in your bonnet.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
> dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?

Fair point: not many. Most just use bottles, and find them
perfectly acceptable.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have three Bromptons, and none have dynamo lights. The cost and
> reliability makes it an unattractive option. I'd literally spend more
> on a hub dynamo wheel and lamp than the cost of the Brompton itself,
> since I got the Bromptons in Taiwan when Brompton was licensing the
> design ($225-$240 each, depending on the exchange rate at the time).

A poor argument, Steven, given the nonstandard nature of much of the
Brompton's design. While that's necessary to make it do what it does,
it does create a number of problems with retrofitting things like
generator hubs. However, bottle generators work just fine on Bromptons
and are quite popular in the UK.

 

[Andy M-S]

On Sep 18, 3:01 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy M-S wrote:
> > On Sep 18, 12:34 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> If you're going to use dynamo lights then you really want to carry a multimeter with you at all times to facilitate troubleshooting.
>
> > Oh, now THAT is ridiculous.
>
> > Up until this point, I had considered this a civil discussion, but
> > that blows it out of the water. VOMs/VTVMs (or, if you prefer, DVMs)
> > are desk tools for the most part. I certainly have never needed one
> > to troubleshoot lights in the field!
>
> Obviously sarcasm is difficult to communicate on Usenet. Sorry.
>
> Anyway, given that the other poster couldn't go on his night ride and
> had to troubleshoot the dynamo lighting system at work the next day,
> it's not out of the realm of possibility to need to do have to do repairs.
>
> > I'd worry more about fancy battery systems; there's a place where you
> > want to know what your voltage is.
>
> Actually you don't need to keep track of voltage on the fancy systems,
> they keep track of remaining capacity for you. On the non-fancy systems
> you want to keep track of time, and have an extra battery if you expect
> to be out longer than one battery will last.
>
> > But in either case, I'd plan on carrying some backup lighting...
>
> Very wise.

Problem with some of the fanciest systems is that for reasons beyond
my comprehension, the control electronics run off the same battery as
the light head. The result is that when power drops below a certain
level, the fancy electronics start doing Bad Things. Not unlike the
Soviet Moon rocket (the N-1) they are overly complicated and sometimes
shut things down while they still ought to be working...

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> Not selective at all. You were the one that brought up the problem with
> your dynamo lights.

Oklay, so I'll bring up problems I've had with battery lights in the past...

> How many non-techies have multimeters at work to
> diagnose the problem and fix it.

Not very relevant, since I didn't use any info from the MM /to/ fix it.

> It sounds like you never actually found
> the cause of the problem, you just did the usual stuff of checking and
> cleaning contacts and connections and bulbs. That's the problem with a
> lot of dynamo setups, there are just too many points of failure. That's
> one of the main reasons they're not used as much as in the past.

Well, let's see, my first rechargeable battery setup first failed with a
blown bulb, as has happened with dynamos too. Same problem, same cure.
The next failure was another thing I've had go wrong with a dynamo
setup too, which was a wiring break. Actually rather harder to fix
neatly on the battery system with more captive leads. Switches can get
dirty and lose contact on either and they're just as prone to problems
on either, so again you're being very selective with your highlighting
of problems.
You can get rid of the wiring problems with internal cells, but you
never see fit to mention that problem when endorsing separate
rechargeables. And moving to LED from bulbs is just as relevant for
generator setups as battery setups.

So a typical Scharf performance of selective highlighting of problems on
the things you're not so keen on, implying they won't happen to the
things you are so keen on.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Andreas Oehler]

Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:28:27 +0100, Peter Clinch:

>Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>> I just like knowing I have my lights at the ready any time I get on my
>> bike.
>
>Inna famous-last-words stylee, I got on the Brom for a local trip last
>night, and the front light didn't work... Changed the bulb, no joy, no
>immediately obvious wiring gotchas, dis/re assembled a few times to
>clean contacts, still no joy. So brought it in to work today and
>attacked it with the multimeter. Everything should work, so I put it
>back together and... it worked. <bof>

Which type of headlight? If it's a classic round Lumotec the brass spring
which makes contact to the center of the bulb might have beeb bent back.
Use a small screwdriver to bend it a little to the front again.

Rear light with double-wire connection? Check if it is connectec right -
expecially ground contact at the head lamp connected with ground contact
at the rear lamp.

>So when dynamo setups do let you down they tend to do it in some degree
>of style. OTOH, a pal had a fuse go Foom on her battery charger unit
>earlier in the year, and left her similarly light free, so nothing's
>perfect!

Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch themself
permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding on rough
terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch it on again.
Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are relative week...
Even last weekend we had this kind of problem with our Garmin Etrex Vista
GPS receiver - worth a few hundret Euro.

Andreas

 

[Dave Larrington]

In news:[email protected],
Andreas Oehler <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:

> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
> modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch
> themself permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding
> on rough terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch
> it on again. Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are
> relative week...

Indeed. I have a Several of Cateye LED lights which all require a good
thumping to get them to wake up afte rreplacing the flatteries.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
You can't have ham!

 

[Peter Clinch]

Andreas Oehler wrote:

> Which type of headlight? If it's a classic round Lumotec the brass spring
> which makes contact to the center of the bulb might have beeb bent back.
> Use a small screwdriver to bend it a little to the front again.

The Basta (looks a bit like a round Lumotec) that Brompton now supply as
their standard front dynamo lamp. Was fine yesterday, I imagine just a
contact problem.

> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts.

I know that, and you know that, but Scharf is in denial about that...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> But how many of those millions of people are fitting cheaper Shimano
>> dynohubs into Bromptons, rather than standard width forks?
>
>Fair point: not many. Most just use bottles, and find them
>perfectly acceptable.

Which is why I said "at least if you have to deal with the sort of
slush where a bottle dynamo often slips". After all, you do have hub
dynamos on several of your bikes for a good reason even if you do find
the bottle acceptable on the 8-freight.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> Which is why I said "at least if you have to deal with the sort of
> slush where a bottle dynamo often slips". After all, you do have hub
> dynamos on several of your bikes for a good reason even if you do find
> the bottle acceptable on the 8-freight.

The primary reasons are no noise, no problems with bumping the mount and
other such convenience and aesthetic reasons.

A bottle can always be supplied with a serious wire-brush roller
designed specifically for slush. I actually posses such a thing but
have always found the variable spring tension adjustment on the basic
B&M is quite sufficient to cope with slush so haven't had to try it.

For regular riding in slush, I'd really say you can do better than a
Brompton, never mind better than a bottle dynamo! (btw, the SON on my
Brom is not an XS, 'cause they didn't exist when I bought it. Ben
"Kinetics" Cooper spread the fork a little and it doesn't seem to have
caused any problems).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Claire Petersky]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I have had a couple instances where _I_ have complained about other
> cyclists' over-powered and underfocused lights. In both cases I was
> on MUPs, each about 8 feet wide. The guys coming the other way nearly
> blinded me, despite my trying to shade my eyes with my hand.


This has also been extensively discussed on our local board. I personally
hate being dazzled by someone riding on the I-90 trail in the winter gloom.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Roger Merriman]

Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:

> SMS wrote:
> >
> > Reliability wise, nothing beats an LED light that can run on AA
> > batteries.
>
> Unsurprisingly, a remarkably selective piece of information from Scharf.
> I can remember more than one ride I've been on where AA powered LEDs
> used by more than one rider have run out of juice. At which point they
> weren't lights any more, so were very easy to beat.
>
yup and as they don't come with battery meters it can be easy to run
them flat.

i do use them but on the commutor bike i have a number, low flying ufo
to borrow wafflecats words. it would be better to have a dynmo system
and probably that will get fitted at some point. it would be much more
useful.

snips
>
> Pete.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

 

[Don Whybrow]

Dave Larrington wrote:
> In news:[email protected],
> Andreas Oehler <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
> us:
>
>> Lots of battery lights and gadgets are known for poor contacts. Some
>> modern LED-flashlights or even battery powered LED-lights switch
>> themself permanently off, if the battery looses contact while riding
>> on rough terrain. You have to manually operate the switch to switch
>> it on again. Problem is: Battery cells are heavy, contact springs are
>> relative week...
>
> Indeed. I have a Several of Cateye LED lights which all require a good
> thumping to get them to wake up afte rreplacing the flatteries.

Back when I had a lot less clue than now, I went and got a set of
battery lights from Halfords, their own brand ones. They haven't worked
since the first time I took them out when it was raining. It tends to do
that a bit around here.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.

 

[Dane Buson]

Claire Petersky <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I have had a couple instances where _I_ have complained about other
>> cyclists' over-powered and underfocused lights. In both cases I was
>> on MUPs, each about 8 feet wide. The guys coming the other way nearly
>> blinded me, despite my trying to shade my eyes with my hand.
>
> This has also been extensively discussed on our local board. I personally
> hate being dazzled by someone riding on the I-90 trail in the winter gloom.

Yes, I'll have to be much more conscious of my light use now. On the
other hand, the imbeciles with very bright helmet lamps that turn to
look directly at your face are my personal least favorite.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
Hi! I'm Larry. This is my brother Bob, and this is my other brother
Jimbo. We thought you might like to know the names of your assailants.

 

[SMS]

Don Whybrow wrote:

> Back when I had a lot less clue than now, I went and got a set of
> battery lights from Halfords, their own brand ones. They haven't worked
> since the first time I took them out when it was raining. It tends to do
> that a bit around here.

Yes, there are definitely a lot of sub-par lights in terms of quality of
construction, though this spans both battery and dynamo lights. It's
rather ironic that the only place to buy dynamo lights in most parts of
the U.S. is at drug stores and hardware stores, you'll almost never see
them in a bicycle shop. Of course these $10-20 toys are not going to
work very well, i.e. "http://tinyurl.com/yvafzj".

Don't buy bicycle lights at a store where they sell aspirin or paint.
Except of course in Japan, where the department stores sell an amazing
variety of bicycle accessories.

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 19, 3:39 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes, there are definitely a lot of sub-par lights in terms of quality of
> construction, though this spans both battery and dynamo lights.

I imagine it also includes homebrew units. ;-)

> It's
> rather ironic that the only place to buy dynamo lights in most parts of
> the U.S. is at drug stores and hardware stores, you'll almost never see
> them in a bicycle shop.

It is ironic. It comes mostly from the fact that most bicycles in the
US are used only as toys. Vehicles that are used for practical
transportation have headlights that are always ready to use, no
regular maintenance required. That includes no battery charging.
(Can you imagine having to do that for your car's headlights?)

> Of course these $10-20 toys are not going to
> work very well, i.e. "http://tinyurl.com/yvafzj".

Some of them do. I set up a commuting bike for a person who I knew
would never keep batteries charged or replaced. I put one of those
inexpensive generators on. The only upgrade it needed was a halogen
bulb to replace the stock vacuum bulb. It's lasted for, oh, about 8
years now, I think.

> Don't buy bicycle lights at a store where they sell aspirin or paint.
> Except of course in Japan, where the department stores sell an amazing
> variety of bicycle accessories.

I was in Austria recently, and found a wide selection of bike
generators available in a large car parts & bicycle parts store. And
yes, they sold paint as well. Given the prices and brand names of the
generators, I'm sure many of them were fine. Remember, this is a
country where people know and use these devices regularly, for their
transportation bikes.

(I really hate to disagree with almost everything SMS says. IOW, I
wish he were actually correct more often!)

- Frank Krygowski