Review: Solidlights 1203d (long)

[Mike Sales]

"Alan Braggins" wrote
(after quoting all these others)
>>>>> A dynamo system is harder to swap from bike to bike, and if you put
>>>>> one on all your bikes the cost goes up further.
>>>> It's easy to put a lamp on each bike and just swap the wheel
>>>
>>> This is a lovely theory. One 700C bike. One 700C tandem with a big
>>> chunky
>>> rim. One 16" bike. And now one 650B bike.
>>>
>>> ... still well worth a SON apiece, but...
>>
>>wot David says... Even if the wheels are the same then, no thanks!
>>Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier faff
>>than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
>>just really wouldn't want to go there.
>
> If you were making a habit of this, you could probably add connectors
> that made it easier. But generally people with multiple bikes do have
> them for different purposes, which does often mean different tyres and
> wheels. (And even when one's a spare of the same type, "let's go to the
> pub, you can borrow my spare bike - but I've only got one set of lights
> between them", doesn't work too well, battery or dynamo.)

But because the different bikes are for different purposes, the solution to
the dynamo or battery question varies from bike to bike. The folder is for
convenience, never goes far, though sometimes to the pub, so gets battery
lights.
The Sunday run bike obviously has no lights if possible, but long rides in
winter sometimes demand I swap over the folders lights. The commuter/tourer
which can get serious night use has a hub dynamo. And a rack and guards
etc.. I guess the others are the toys, but for transport use, I prefer the
reliability and convenience of a hub dynamo. As for illumination, I seldom
need to ride slower than daytime, and I used to ride in a hilly area with
steep dark and narrow roads.
Is anyone here old enough to remember Wonder battery lamps? They were the
alternative to the tin Evereadys. White plastic, unusual battery, not bad
clamp, French made, dim, unreliable. You lot don't know you've been born,
there is a wide choice of good lighting these days.

Mike Sales

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 10:09 am, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
> > seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up with, you lose.
>
> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay clean
> too, no doubt...

This is what you wrote:
"Undoing, redoing the connectors is going to be a bigger and dirtier
faff
than moving a light/battery designed for easy removal/replacement. I
just really wouldn't want to go there."

And I wrote
"Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is about 5
seconds."

5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next? And getting my
hands dirty? I've never been afraid of dirt in my life.

You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes due
to the uncleanliness of changing hub wheels from bike to bike and the
time and effort it takes to disconnect the wires? Your signature line
at the bottom says you work in an IT department for a university in
Scotland. Wow.

>
> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the generator
> > wheel is also not practical for those of us who like quality generator
> > produced light.
>
> I find just running more than one hub and one light works. Not cheap,
> but then nor are the rest of the bikes they're attached to. Hey ho.
> Still sooner pay the money than prat around with charging batteries all
> the time...

Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
ride seriously at night. If your only night riding is from the pub to
home after leaving your university job, then either will work fine.
For those who happen to be riding all night in France in August in the
rain and cool temps and have to stop for an extended period of time to
fix a flat tire will appreciate a battery powered light. Generator
lights don't produce any light when they aren't moving. And the LED
standlights only stay lit for a few minutes, not enough time to do any
work. And hard to direct a standlight to where you need the light.
Only a fool would go on a serious night ride without a compliment of
lights.




>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> LOL, don't take the word of the two or three U.S. users that post on
> Usenet!

Unless, of course, it's Scharf, who is of course completely
credible and always right. You really don't do irony, do you?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> In fact, I go into detail on the web site on the trade-offs of the
> different kinds of systems.

Yet repeatedly say that generator systems are inadequate.

> Far be it from me to tell others what to do.

You may not tell them what to do, but you do provide biased
information suggesting what you think they /should/ do that is
clearly at odds with the real-world experinece of many cyclists.

> But what would be nice is if people based there decisions on actual
> facts.

So direct empirical experinece isn't "facts"?

> "I believe that it's important to understand the facts regarding dynamo
> systems and battery based systems, so you can choose the most
> appropriate lighting system for your needs."

And then you supply some "facts" that are wrong, and wrong in the
direct empirical experinece of many users. So you are at odds with
what you state you believe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Frank Miles]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Dane Buson wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> M-gineering wrote:
>>> SMS wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's too bad there are no 12V/6W hub dynamos yet, not that I've found
>>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Of course you /could/ Google on '12v/6w AND dynamo', but that wouldn't
>>> be sporting
>>
>> Which would show you 12V/6W bottle dynamos. Sure the SON can be pushed
>> to that at higher speeds, but it's not practical for many users.
>
> Why not? The only time you need the very top of the watt range is going
> downhill. Anyone can coast down a hill.

[snip sig]

IMHE riding in the rain, at night can seem to absorb almost every photon
put out by any kind of light. There just doesn't seem to be much of
anything reflected back sometimes, even with my current 20W halogen
system.

This is not a rare experience - it rains a lot here in the winter,
when I'm commuting

I hope to go back to a generator-based system when my current
rechargable battery (7 A-hr) fails, but hopefully by then what now
is outrageously expensive will be less so.

-f

 

[Peter Clinch]

SMS wrote:

> I don't ignore them.

No, you just assume they're clueless and resorting to mad
justifications, and say as much.

> But I would like them to stop making up all these
> stories and excuses. If avoiding charging batteries, either out of
> necessity (multi-day all night rides) or out of a desire to avoid
> connecting a charger, then that's certainly a valid preference, however
> silly the latter may appear to some.

You're trying to paint it as pathetic. Do you think if a slightly
lower perfomance (but still entirely adeaute for the jobs to hand)
laptop or cellphone was available that never needed charging, only
silly people would form the market for it? Well, you probably do,
because you have tunnel vision, but I'm pretty sure either would
find a lot of enthusiastic use.

> But stop it there. The endless rationalizations about how sufficient the
> illumination is are not something anyone that looks at the issue
> rationally actually believes.

Riding around for years, seeing everything one needs and not having
problems is "rationalisation"? Deary me...

> The actual power source is immaterial

Where the power source running out before the job is complete, or
only being available between charges, the actual power source is
very much material.

> what matters is whether or not
> the power source is capable of powering adequate lamps.

And in the case of hub dynamos they are. That's how so many people
ride bikes with them on safely and happily. You never were one to
get inconvenient facts like people doing things get in your way of
thinking they can't, and that stupidity remains.

> The experts
> agree that a very bright rechargeable battery powered lighting system is
> the best system for commuting, precisely because the dynamo systems
> cannot produce sufficient power.

And which "experts" are they? Oh, the people you happen to agree
with, including yourself. Self reference doesn't make something a
fact.

> See the "Myths and Facts" section of the website for more gems.

How about that you're an expert in bicycle lighting? It's like a
joke, but not as funny...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
>going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next?
[...]
>You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes

Hint - does one using one hub on several bikes always involve changing
the wheel? Does it involve lacing and truing the wheel? Spotted the
difference?

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
CoyoteBoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 13 Sep, 03:24, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> >
> >
> >
> > CoyoteBoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 12 Sep, 13:17, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <[email protected]>,
> >
> > > > CoyoteBoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > On 12 Sep, 05:12, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Good grief, what a blessed nuisance to have to carry four
> > > > > > sets of batteries and swap them out every two hours. Why
> > > > > > not just use a generator system?
> >
> > > > > I have no issues carrying extra batteries and swapping them.
> > > > > I'd like a dynamo but they dont do 40w 12v ones for less than
> > > > > the price of my lights and several sets of fairly lightweight
> > > > > batteries so it just isnt sensible.
> >
> > > > Why the *********** do you think you need a 12V 40W lighting
> > > > system on a bike? Unless you have night blindness that is
> > > > major overkill. 10W lights are already bright enough to screw
> > > > up your vision at night, 40W would just be much worse.
> >
> > > At 30-40mph off-road with jumps I like being able to see. It
> > > screws up other peoples night sight, sure, but they all crowd in
> > > behind me on descents so they can see better
> >
> > Testosterone poisoning must adversely affect one's eyesight.
>
> lol I tend to do fairly short rides on fast trails, climb forever
> on a 3w head torch and then switch on the fun lights for all-out
> pedaling on the way back. Its not common to reach 30+ but I'd rather
> have enough light to let me do that than have to go slow because i
> cant see enough. Even so it catches me out sometimes lol. I've heard
> wearing red-filter sunglasses can help a lot though, as the night-
> sight chemicals in your eyes are not bleached by red light as much.
> Might be worth a try.

For riding like that I think you would find generator lights- even 12V
40W- unsuitable.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is
> > about 5 seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up
> > with, you lose.
>
> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay
> clean too, no doubt...

With an occasional cleaning of my bikes, yes indeed my hands stay clean.

> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the
> > generator wheel is also not practical for those of us who like
> > quality generator produced light.

Umm. Whyever not? It's what I do and I find it quite practical.

 

[Clive George]

"Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > Huh? Connecting and disconnecting the wires on a hub light is
>> > about 5 seconds. If this is the best argument you can come up
>> > with, you lose.
>>
>> Plus the fiddle of moving the wheel over, manoeuvring it through the
>> brakes etc. 5 seconds? Yeah, right... and your hands will stay
>> clean too, no doubt...
>
> With an occasional cleaning of my bikes, yes indeed my hands stay clean.
>
>> > Now, putting a separate light on each bike and switching the
>> > generator wheel is also not practical for those of us who like
>> > quality generator produced light.
>
> Umm. Whyever not? It's what I do and I find it quite practical.

Am I just disturbingly rich or something? It never even occurred to me to
swap wheels between bikes but leave the lighting and wiring in place - I
just got more front wheels instead. I build my own, which I guess makes it a
bit easier and cheaper, but we've still ended up with 4 dynohubs in the
house, soon to be 6. First one is now about 10 years old (ooh, happy
anniversary to it). One of the original Shimano NX-10, still going well,
probably with a couple of tens of thousands of miles on it.

cheers,
clive

 

[A Muzi]

> [email protected] wrote:
>> 5 seconds is about right. Now you add in changing the wheel. Are you
>> going to add in lacing and truing the wheel next?
> [...]
>> You are arguing against one generator hub serving multiple bikes

Alan Braggins wrote:
> Hint - does one using one hub on several bikes always involve changing
> the wheel? Does it involve lacing and truing the wheel? Spotted the
> difference?

As with light system format, it's kinda personal. For me, using one
wheel in 2 bikes would mean tediously swapping in March and then right
back again in November. The horror of inconvenience! (I just use a
bolt-on dynamo on Bike #2)

This has been humorous but silly. Battery lights are widely varied as
are dynamo systems. There's more difference within each range than
between the two groups as groups. Let's move on.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 1:33 pm, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:15:29 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >Vehicle headlights use precise optics - except those vehicle
> >headlights that are cobbled together by small companies on the cheap.
> >Such companies just grab MR bulbs and put them in a housing.
> >Unfortunately, most rechargeable bike headlights seem to be made by
> >that sort of company.
>
> In practise though, as long as you point them in the right direction,
> the MR-11 type lights do actually put a lot of light onto the road
> where you want it without over-blinding oncoming traffic. They are, to
> be fair, predicated upon producing more light than they really need
> for this application, such that the 'wasted' light doesn't matter, but
> I've been using such things for years and been very happy with them.
>
> Particularly off-road, of course, but I appreciate that this is
> another matter.

Off-road, MR bulbs make sense. In the woods, you're often moving
slow, picking your path around obstacles, ducking branches, etc. A
wide fog of light is fine.

On-road, it's just inefficient. Yes, those same lamps work only
because they pump out enough lumens to waste. But why put up with
waste, when a simple front lens would make it unnecessary?

Cycling is all about efficiency. We don't run tires that weigh 2
pounds each, even though those could be puncture-proof, because they
would waste energy. We don't use motorcycle gage spokes, or solid
handlebars, or massive chains even if they would be bulletproof and
wear forever. We tend to use just the minimum to get the job done,
because we value efficiency.

Except for some cyclists with their light systems. We've had people
post here that they want as much light output as a motorcycle.
Why??? In truth, almost nobody _ever_ hits even 40 mph at night on a
bicycle. Why waste lumens, and lug extra battery mass, put up with
lower run times, and spend more battery money than necessary?

Very seriously, I understand that some people may not have the
electrical and mechanical skills to install a generator system. It is
slightly more complicated. And many people have a false idea of the
level of drag. (See http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html )
Those problems, real or imagined, might drive someone away from a
generator set.

What I don't understand is why battery systems use such primitive
optics. A generator headlamp, slightly modified to stand a more
powerful (i.e. hotter) bulb, would allow most rechargeable sets to
either be half their present mass, and somewhat less expensive, or
last twice as long.

Almost nothing else on a bike is designed as crudely as a typical
rechargeable headlamp. That's the truth.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 3:12 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> .
>
> Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
> ride seriously at night.

Um... except for those people who choose to ride Paris-Brest-Paris and
similar events using generator lights.

> If your only night riding is from the pub to
> home after leaving your university job, then either will work fine.
> For those who happen to be riding all night in France in August in the
> rain and cool temps and have to stop for an extended period of time to
> fix a flat tire will appreciate a battery powered light.

I handle that by carrying a small LED light. By small, I mean one of
the ones that fits on a keychain and is powered by a coin battery, CR
1616 or such. It weighs about an ounce.

> Generator
> lights don't produce any light when they aren't moving.

Yep. We all know that's usually true.

> And the LED
> standlights only stay lit for a few minutes, not enough time to do any
> work.

I've never bothered with a standlight. My bike has reflectors for
conspicuity when stopped. A few years ago, I was given a white front
blinky as a gift, and that's a further help, at far less cost than a
built-in standlight. But I never had any problems before it arrived.

> Only a fool would go on a serious night ride without a compliment of
> lights.

Oh, I've gotten spontaneous compliments on my light system from
motorists!

Or did you mean complement? ;-) Well, I've got that too. I use a
battery blinky taillight. I carry one of those tiny flashlights.
I've got the generator headlight (in fact, currently I'm playing with
two on my utility bike). And I've got that front blinky.

It's that complement of lights - plus the reflectors - that's drawn
compliments from motorists. But, FWIW, I've also done perfectly well
with just one headlight, a blinky taillight, and reflectors. It's
just not that bad out there!

- Frank Krygowski

 

[SMS]

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
>
>> Does the Fenix have an adjustable spot to flood lens like the Maglite?
>
> Don't even mention a maglite in comparison to a fenix. That's like
> comparing a candle to the landing lights of a 747.
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l1dce-l2dce.htm

I went and picked up the L2DCE earlier tonight. It is an incredible
light. You're absolutely right about the comparison with a Mag-Lite LED
version being almost sac religious.

The pictures of it do not really give a good perspective of how small it
is. The guy from eLite was asking me if I was sure I wanted the bicycle
holders he sells
("http://www.eliteled.com/products/accessory/flholder.html") because the
Fenix diameter isn't wide enough for it to hold it. I bought it anyway,
as I can use a rubber spacer around the body of the flashlight. He was a
good guy, meeting me locally rather than insisting on shipping it the
mile from where he is located to my house.

The beam is very good for bicycling, with a strong spot beam but with
sufficient flood to illuminate to the sides.

I had been using a Streamlight Strion, and while slightly brighter in
spot mode than the Fenix (even though rated at only 116 lumens) it was
not as convenient as it used a proprietary Li-Ion battery, and the bulb
did not last all that long, only a few hundred hours.

I certainly can't see the advantage of the DiNotte over the Fenix L2D CE
which is rated at 135 Lumens at highest power (the L2D CE at mid power
is rated at 80 lumens). The DiNotte with the Luxeon 5W bulb is rated at
120 lumens. I know that DiNotte is using Cree LEDs in some new products,
but it apparently hasn't made it to their existing products.

I especially like the different available power levels and modes, as it
isn't necessary to use it at full power all the time.

The reviews I've read of the SolidLights indicate that they have optics
very much similar to what two Fenix lights would look like, a
symmetrical beam that doesn't have the issues that most lights designed
for dynamos have by necessity.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Ace wrote:

> TBH I find this whole argumentative appraoch difficlut to understand,
> and all to prevelant on urc.

Scharf doesn't live here, he just gets cross-posted in occasionally.
Have a look at the rec.bikes groups he's posted in from and look at his
posting record of complaining endlessly about the bad abd cluelss
behaviour of others while doing the same things he decries himself, only
more so.

> AFAICT no-one is actually claiming that
> their own approach is better for everyone all the time

No, but Scharf does state that "experts agree" (where "expert" is Sharf
and those who agree with Scharf) that some things are clearly Not The
Thing in certain cases where the Real World demonstrates he's wrong.
Apparently, a significant portion of the transportational cycling
population of Germany use "inadequate" lighting, for example.

> but the
> ill-feeling generated seems to assume that they are.

Self proclaimed experts talking obvious junk who have an overwhelming
tendency to complain about the junk posted by self proclaimed experts
have a way of rubbing people up the wrong way...

> Quite why people here need
> to feel that there's always a right and a wrong solution I have no
> idea.

Because they're experts! We know that Scharf is an expert because he
tells us he is, and tells us that expert opinion is what counts.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Dave Larrington]

In news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:
> On Sep 13, 3:12 pm, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> .
>>
>> Battery (disposable or rechargeable) lights are needed for people who
>> ride seriously at night.
>
> Um... except for those people who choose to ride Paris-Brest-Paris and
> similar events using generator lights.

Well, quite. Out of the group of six riders occupying our little corner of
the pre-PBP swamp^w campsite, five were using hub dynamos and young Philip
spent a long time faffing over which brand of spare flatteries[1] to take
with him and "modifying" his front lights with a hot glue gun to ensure they
stayed in place at the spot some 20 km in where, we were assured, a speed
bump always made it rain bike lights.

At my sort of speed, any brevet longer than 200 km, and a 200 between
September and the start of BST, is going to need bright and reliable lights.
That's why I, and probably a significant proportion of Audax UK members,
have opted to use dynamo lights.

1 - when he wasn't being seriously tempted by Carrefour's 20 Euro bottle
dynamo set, that is.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Flies are the work of Stan, and should be killed by all means
available.

 

[David Damerell]

Quoting SMS <[email protected]>:
>From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
>downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
>hub dynamo)

If you only hit 10-12mph on downhills, are you sure you don't have what we
call "roller skates"?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, September.

 

[David Damerell]

Quoting Clive George <[email protected]>:
>Bollocks. But you know that already. Your definition of expert is "somebody
>who agrees with SMS".

Or "who can be quoted out of context to..."

Ken Kifer is one of SMS's "experts" - now what kind of lights did Ken
Kifer use all his life?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, September.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Very seriously, I understand that some people may not have the
>electrical and mechanical skills to install a generator system.

Since you don't have to do it yourself, that's really just the same
old "a decent generator set costs more than a battery set" argument.
Some people like building wheels. Some people will happily pay for
someone else to build them a wheel. Others won't. Which is fine so
long as no-one starts pretending that what works for them is the
One True Way and nothing else works.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <Vsi*[email protected]>, David Damerell wrote:
>Quoting SMS <[email protected]>:
>>From stupid statements about only needing high illumination on
>>downhills (where your speed is fast enough for sufficient power from a
>>hub dynamo)
>
>If you only hit 10-12mph on downhills, are you sure you don't have what we
>call "roller skates"?

Initial experiments with a DLumotec (LED) primary and Lumotec secondary
suggest that the primary will still give adequate light with an unswitched
secondary at a brisk walking speed. Not "high", but how much light do you
need at walking pace?