Reviews of Unto Others

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Michael Ragland

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Note: I have not read the book but since I have an interest
in group selection.individual selection/natural
selection I decided to post these few obscenely
glowing reviews. From what I've read on the web,
however, it seems true most recommend the first half
of the book over the second half.

"Belonging to the human race isn't enough to bring forth
(Darwinian) altruism."

[I thought this was a classic line so quoted it]

Anonymous reviews of Unto Others

The Invisible [Helping] Hand?

Altruism has always been a problem for evolutionists. How
does one explain a creature giving up something for another,
sometimes its very life? Why, for example, will a monkey
give a warning cry that alerts other members of the troop,
but that gives away its own position? How could genes
governing such behavior persist in the relentless
competition for a place in the genome?

The kinds of reasoning used to explain behavior that is good
for the group but perhaps not so good for the individual
performing it is as old as Darwin. Until George Williams
demolished whole classes of argument in his lovely 1966
book, "Adaptation and Natural Selection", it was common to
invoke "group selection" as an analog to individual
selection, and explain, in a vague, hand-waving sort of way,
how altruistic behavior could arise by enhancing the
survival of the herd, or school, or flock. And after
Dawkins, both the individual and the group were banished
from consideration, and the selfish gene reigned supreme.

Only one category of altruism has been taken as consonant
with the unit of replication being the gene, namely "kin
selection". This is the favoring of relatives: since
relatives share genes, helping a gene-mate helps ones own
genes, whether or not it benefits ones self. Yet much
altruism in nature goes unexplained by kin selection. Think
of the soldier who falls on the hand grenade so his
(unrelated) buddies can
live. There are many more examples from the lives of many
creatures, most of whom never saw a war movie. How
does one explain the clear patterns of altruistic
behavior in animals at all levels of consciousness and
cuddliness? Wilson, a biologist, and Sober, a
philosopher, dare to think the unthinkable, or at
least the unfashionable: is it possible that
individuals or groups really do play a replicator role
in evolution? They believe that group selection
deserves another chance, but this time more rigorously
specified.

I was very impressed with the first half of the book, in
which they justify a group-selection model for adaptive
evolution that can explain a persistent strain of altruism.
What they show is that selection can take place at the level
of a group of individuals in many more sorts of situations
than were thought possible. (A nice bonus of this approach
is that kin selection can be explained more simply using
this more general context of the group.) Groups, however
ephemeral, do have a role to play in selection. The second
half of the book is less convincing, as it involves
psychological and philosophical arguments for "psychological
altruism" in humans (that is, you not only behave
unselfishly, but "want" to behave unselfishly), which, by
its very nature, is hard (or very hard) to tease out in
experiments, or to introspect to. However, the authors are
reasonably convincing that nature would most likely not
employ some Rube Goldberg-type of mental devices that
depended on hedonism (pleasure-and-pain-driven behavior) to
accomplish important tasks, such as child-rearing, but
rather build in directly the mechanism to make a parent care
to care for its child. In that way, the care of its child
would be a primary motivation, rather than an intrumental
one (sorry about the jargon!) on the way to getting pleasure
or avoiding pain. Parents will find this convincing, as the
desire to take care of ones children seems not to depend on
how much we "enjoy" doing it.

This book is detailed, conscientious and well-written, but
it covers a lot of ground and many of its arguments,
especially in the second part, are subtle. So I recommend
reading it more than once: this is contentious material.
While the authors do not make anything of the political and
social implications of their work, these are always waiting
in the wings. Altruism, after all, is in direct opposition
to selfishness. Many people see in this a political point,
and a social point. Those issues are not properly a part of
such a work, but do give great interest to its arguments and
conclusions. And whether or not its conclusions finally
survive intact, this books arguments and approach seem
exemplary and fruitful.

Unto Others: The Evolution and Psychology of Unselfish
Behavior > Customer Review #2: Evolutionary break through--
why races are at war

This book is a continuation of those books that keep moving
us closer to where we came from. After decades of wandering
in the jungle of postmodernism, we are finally emerging to
find our roots. This book is not for the casual reader. But
it is an important contribution in understanding the
evolution of groupism, why humans go to war, and why
belonging to the human race is not enough to bring forth
altruism. Altruism evolved as a means of group consolidation
of the ingroup, and genocide towards all other groups. This
book should be read along with "Demonic Males" to get a good
understanding of how altruism evolved.

Unto Others: The Evolution and Psychology of Unselfish
Behavior > Customer Review #3:

An antidote to what weve been taught about group selection
For more than a generation now, students of evolutionary
biology have been taught that natural selection is a
process that works on individuals. Where there is a
conflict between the good of the individual and the good of
the community, the selfish almost always prevails. There
are good theoretical reasons to believe this should be so.
Most of the work that has been done in the last century to
turn Darwins theory into a quantitative science seems to
point in that direction. Individual selection should be
fast and efficient; group selection slow and unreliable.
Yet the biological world that we see seems to fly in the
face of this conclusion. So much of the adaptation we see
in the natural world looks like it benefits the community
or the species, often at the expense of the individual. So
the pure individual selectionists (99% of evolutionary
biologists today) have had to concoct a series of excuses,
kluges, and workarounds. There are a multitude of reasons!
that what looks like a group adaptation is really an
individual adaptation. Most of our community has
unthinkingly adopted the view that the "selfish gene"
perspective holds a key to understanding the "illusion" of
group selection. Wilson has been working for 20 years to
reform this situation, and to restore common sense. If it
looks like a group adaptation, it probably is a group
adaptation. No surprise here - except to that 99% of the
academic community who has been raised to think that "group
selection" is a dirty word - something like "Lamarckism" or
"Creationism". Wilsons book is just the kick in the pants
that the 99% of us need. It is readable, yet meticulously
documented. He traces the history of our prejudice against
group selection, and exposes the faulty logic in those
kluges and workarounds. Group selection really is necessary
to explain what we observe in nature. Then, he goes on to
offer us the theeoretical foundation we need to make group
selection plausible. There are mechanisms overlooked by the
quantitative theorists that make group selection a far more
viable process than they give it credit for. If youre a lay
person, you may think "of course - whats the big deal." But
if youre an academic evolutionist educated in the last 30
years, you need this book; your thinking about altruism and
fitness of communities will be changed forever. All this is
in the first half of the book. The second half, presumably
contributed by Sober, is much less focused and scientific,
more apt to dwell on definitions and philosophical
distinctions. The attempt to connect the sound conclusions
of the books first half to attitudes about human cultures
is both more speculative and somehow less ambitious and
important than the books first half.   Unto Others: The
Evolution and Psychology of Unselfish Behavior

"It's uncertain whether intelligence has any long term
survival value." Stephen Hawking
 
"Michael Ragland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Note: I have not read the book but since I have an
> interest in group selection.individual
> selection/natural selection I decided to post these
> few obscenely glowing reviews. From what I've read
> on the web, however, it seems true most recommend
> the first half of the book over the second half.

> [excerpt from first review] I was very impressed with the
> first half of the book, in which they justify a group-
> selection model for adaptive evolution that can explain a
> persistent strain of altruism. What they show is that
> selection can take place at the level of a group of
> individuals in many more sorts of situations than were
> thought possible. (A nice bonus of this approach is that
> kin selection can be explained more simply using this more
> general context of the group.) Groups, however ephemeral,
> do have a role to play in selection. The second half of
> the book is less convincing, as it involves psychological
> and philosophical arguments for "psychological altruism"
> in humans ...

> [excerpt from second review] ... Then, he goes on to offer
> us the theeoretical foundation we need to make group
> selection plausible. There are mechanisms overlooked by
> the quantitative theorists that make group selection a far
> more viable process than they give it credit for. If youre
> a lay person, you may think "of course - whats the big
> deal." But if youre an academic evolutionist educated in
> the last 30 years, you need this book; your thinking about
> altruism and fitness of communities will be changed
> forever. All this is in the first half of the book. The
> second half, presumably contributed by Sober, is much less
> focused and scientific, more apt to dwell on definitions
> and philosophical distinctions. The attempt to connect the
> sound conclusions of the books first half to attitudes
> about human cultures is both more speculative and somehow
> less ambitious and important than the books first half.

I agree that the first half is better than the second half,
but I had the impression that the first half was Sobor's and
the second half Wilson's - exactly the opposite of the
second reviewer. I would appreciate the opinion of someone
familiar with the work of both authors.

My main objection to the book is that while it explains the
difference between the "old group selection" (discredited)
and the "new group selection" (plausible), it then goes on
to forget this distinction and speculate on human altruism
as if the "old group selection" mechanisms were working.
Michael's other post, quoting Campbell, illustrates one
unfortunate result. People just don't "get" the distinction.

The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it, when (s)he
writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a role to play
in selection."

No! No! No! The correct lesson to take from the "new group
selection" is that groups have a role ONLY IF they are
ephemeral and if the organisms in those groups do most of
their breeding outside the group.

Trying to find reasons for human altruism in inbred human
tribal structures is an appeal to the discredited "old group
selection". It just doesn't work without reciprocity or
(equivalently) the punishment of deviants from the group's
altruistic norms. In which case, it is no longer necessary
to invoke any kind of group selection
- or at least not group selection as it is currently
understood in the "new" and "old" variants.
 
Jim,

in article [email protected], Perplexed in
Peoria at [email protected] wrote on 7/1/04 8:46 AM:

> The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it, when (s)he
> writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a role to play
> in selection."
>
> No! No! No! The correct lesson to take from the "new group
> selection" is that groups have a role ONLY IF they are
> ephemeral and if the organisms in those groups do most of
> their breeding outside the group.

This is far too extreme. The "new group selection" allows
for this possibility, largely as a result of the work of
McCaughley and colleagues; but I am quite certain that D.S.
Wilson would not agree with you that this defines the bounds
of the "new group selection."

Cheers,

Guy
 
Perplexed in Peoria <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:

> My main objection to the book is that while it explains
> the difference between the "old group selection"
> (discredited) and the "new group selection" (plausible),
> it then goes on to forget this distinction and speculate
> on human altruism as if the "old group selection"
> mechanisms were working. Michael's other post, quoting
> Campbell, illustrates one unfortunate result. People just
> don't "get" the distinction.
>
> The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it, when (s)he
> writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a role to play
> in selection."
>
> No! No! No! The correct lesson to take from the "new group
> selection" is that groups have a role ONLY IF they are
> ephemeral and if the organisms in those groups do most of
> their breeding outside the group.

It's not clear what your distinction is here :-|

AFAICT, the "old" group selection is still alive to
some extent.

I don't think I've even heard of some sort of "new group
selection" that depends for its existence on outbreeding.
What is all that about?

Normally, outbreeding is the enemy of group selection of
all sorts.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email protected] Remove
lock to reply.
 
"Guy Hoelzer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Jim,
>
> in article [email protected], Perplexed
> in Peoria at [email protected] wrote on 7/1/04
> 8:46 AM:
>
> > The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it, when
> > (s)he writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a role
> > to play in selection."
> >
> > No! No! No! The correct lesson to take from the "new
> > group selection" is that groups have a role ONLY IF they
> > are ephemeral and if the organisms in those groups do
> > most of their breeding outside the group.
>
> This is far too extreme. The "new group selection" allows
> for this possibility, largely as a result of the work of
> McCaughley and colleagues; but I am quite certain that
> D.S. Wilson would not agree with you that this defines the
> bounds of the "new group selection."

Slightly too extreme, maybe, but surely not far too extreme.

I really don't know what D. S. Wilson would think. I have
not read much of his recent work, besides this book.
However, the model which is considered one of the two
foundations of the new group selection

A Theory of Group Selection David Sloan Wilson PNAS, Vol.
72, No. 1. (Jan., 1975), pp. 143-146.

certainly fits well within my bounds, as does the example
provided in Unto Others. If you know of a worked out example
of the new group selection that is outside these bounds, I
would appreciate a reference.

Who is "McCaughley"? Do you mean McCauley and Wade (1980)?
That is EMPIRICAL results. I pay no attention to that stuff.
I'm only interested in models. ;-)
 
"Michael Ragland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Note: I have not read the book but since I have an interest
in group selection.individual selection/natural
selection I decided to post these few obscenely
glowing reviews. From what I've read on the web,
however, it seems true most recommend the first half
of the book over the second half.

[excerpt from first review]

I was very impressed with the first half of the book, in
which they justify a group-selection model for adaptive
evolution that can explain a persistent strain of altruism.
What they show is that selection can take place at the level
of a group of individuals in many more sorts of situations
than were thought possible. (A nice bonus of this approach
is that kin selection can be explained more simply using
this more general context of the group.) Groups, however
ephemeral, do have a role to play in selection. The second
half of the book is less convincing, as it involves
psychological and philosophical arguments for "psychological
altruism" in humans ...

[excerpt from second review] .. Then, he goes on to offer us
the theoretical foundation we need to make group selection
plausible. There are mechanisms overlooked by the
quantitative theorists that make group selection a far more
viable process than they give it credit for. If youre a lay
person, you may think "of course - whats the big deal." But
if youre an academic evolutionist educated in the last 30
years, you need this book; your thinking about altruism and
fitness of communities will be changed forever. All this is
in the first half of the book. The second half, presumably
contributed by Sober, is much less focused and scientific,
more apt to dwell on definitions and philosophical
distinctions. The attempt to connect the sound conclusions
of the books first half to attitudes about human cultures is
both more speculative and somehow less ambitious and
important than the books first half.

Jim Menegay: I agree that the first half is better than the
second half, but I had the impression that the first half
was Sobor's and the second half Wilson's - exactly the
opposite of the second reviewer. I would appreciate the
opinion of someone familiar with the work of both authors.
Ragland: I'm not "familiar" with the book but apparently
Wilson is the scientist who wrote the first half of the book
and Sober is the philosopher who wrote the second half of
the book providing psychological rationale for altruism.

Jim Menegay: My main objection to the book is that while it
explains the difference between the "old group selection"
(discredited) and the "new group selection" (plausible), it
then goes on to forget this distinction and speculate on
human altruism as if the "old group selection" mechanisms
were working. Michael's other post, quoting Campbell,
illustrates one unfortunate result. People just don't "get"
the distinction.

Ragland: Well, I haven't read the book but maybe you are
thinking about the second half of the book which is
philosophical and which you may have inferred old group
selection mechanisms were still at work. It's also possible
the old school group selection mechanisms have validity and
are attempted to be explained by Wilson's new model.

Jim Menegay: The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it,
when (s)he writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a
role to play in selection." No! No! No! The correct lesson
to take from the "new group selection" is that groups have a
role ONLY IF they are ephemeral and if the organisms in
those groups do most of their breeding outside the group.

Ragland: Never in my life heard of such an old or new
definition of group selection. Seems to negate the very
concept. You have any references for this?

Jim Menegay: Trying to find reasons for human altruism in
inbred human tribal structures is an appeal to the
discredited "old group selection". It just doesn't work
without reciprocity or (equivalently) the punishment of
deviants from the group's altruistic norms. In which
case, it is no longer necessary to invoke any kind of
group selection
- or at least not group selection as it is currently
understood in the "new" and "old" variants.

Ragland: I think group selection is more complicated than
what you make it out to be.

"It's uncertain whether intelligence has any long term
survival value." Stephen Hawking
 
"Michael Ragland" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Jim Menegay: I agree that the first half is better than
> the second half, but I had the impression that the first
> half was Sobor's and the second half Wilson's - exactly
> the opposite of the second reviewer. I would appreciate
> the opinion of someone familiar with the work of both
> authors. Ragland: I'm not "familiar" with the book but
> apparently Wilson is the scientist who wrote the first
> half of the book and Sober is the philosopher who wrote
> the second half of the book providing psychological
> rationale for altruism.

You and "second reviewer" may be right and I may be wrong. I
had thought that Sober was the originator of the "Trait
Group" model, but it turns out that it was Wilson. Still, I
would appreciate an informed opinion. Sober doesn't strike
me as THAT kind of philosopher.

> Jim Menegay: My main objection to the book is that while
> it explains the difference between the "old group
> selection" (discredited) and the "new group selection"
> (plausible), it then goes on to forget this distinction
> and speculate on human altruism as if the "old group
> selection" mechanisms were working. Michael's other post,
> quoting Campbell, illustrates one unfortunate result.
> People just don't "get" the distinction.
>
> Ragland: Well, I haven't read the book but maybe you are
> thinking about the second half of the book which is
> philosophical and which you may have inferred old group
> selection mechanisms were still at work. It's also
> possible the old school group selection mechanisms have
> validity and are attempted to be explained by Wilson's
> new model.

It is not a new model - almost 30 years old now. And it
turns out to be equivalent to Price's model which is 5-10
years older still. I didn't notice any attempts to justify
the old group selection in Unto Others. Only what seemed to
me to be attempts to APPLY the old group selection.

> Jim Menegay: The first reviewer above also doesn't "get"
> it, when (s)he writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have
> a role to play in selection." No! No! No! The correct
> lesson to take from the "new group selection" is that
> groups have a role ONLY IF they are ephemeral and if the
> organisms in those groups do most of their breeding
> outside the group.
>
> Ragland: Never in my life heard of such an old or new
> definition of group selection. Seems to negate the very
> concept. You have any references for this?

Check p6 of Keller "Levels of Selection in Evolution". They
use the "old" and "new" terminology I have used. More
formally, the old model is often called the Classical model,
and the new model is called the Trait Group model. The key
difference is that in the old model, the group IS a deme,
whereas in the new, the group is INSIDE the deme, and the
individual lives in the group for only a fraction of its
lifespan. An example of a trait group might be all the
caterpillars on a particular tree, though I am not aware
that this particular trait group has been touted in a group
selection argument. Butterflies outgrow the trait group, and
breed outside it, but for a part of their lives, their
fitness may be tied in with that of the group. Perhaps the
selfish ones eat so loudly that they attract birds.

Applying this model to human evolution would seem to require
either implausible levels of exogamy, or else the assortive
formation of new tribes primarily by altruists (or else,
primarily by exiled individualists).

PS: Michael. May I ask that you refrain from removing the
">" prefixes? You don't need to insert your own, but
removing the ones that are already there makes it hard
to tell who said what when.
 
Guy Hoelzer <[email protected]> wrote:

> > JM:- The first reviewer above also doesn't "get" it,
> > when (s)he writes: "Groups, however ephemeral, do have a
> > role to play in selection."
> >
> > No! No! No! The correct lesson to take from the "new
> > group selection" is that groups have a role ONLY IF they
> > are ephemeral and if the organisms in those groups do
> > most of their breeding outside the group.

> GH:- This is far too extreme. The "new group selection"
> allows for this possibility, largely as a result of the
> work of McCaughley and colleagues; but I am quite certain
> that D.S. Wilson would not agree with you that this
> defines the bounds of the "new group selection."

JE:- "New" and "old" group selection? A rose by a different
name remains just a rose...

In your opinion was the oldest form of the "new group
selection" Hamilton's rule? Would you agree that the most
important thing all these "new" forms of group selection
have in common is that they cannot be tested against nature
whereas the "old" form of group selection could be?

Regards,

John Edser Independent Researcher

PO Box 266 Church Pt NSW 2105 Australia

[email protected]