Ricco positive for EPO



plectrum

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TheDarkLord said:
I'm not buying into this. JB and co would have to be masterful actors for this to work. If you recall, he was protesting this in the media for quite a while after ASO announced their decision - I don't know how much he paid UCI for them to rally their cause for inclusion in the Tour.
So why didn't ASO include them into the trap - do you really think that Prudholme hasn't planned this meticulously for nearly a year. I'm not sure you quite realise how massive this step is in the battle against doping.

The famous statement by Michele Ferrari "If it doesn't show up in the drug controls, then it's not doping," no longer applies if ASO are tearing up the rule book and deciding not to actually write a new one.

Go ASO this RULEZ .... woot!

It must be an enjoyable race this year when 60% of the racers are having sleepless nights!
 

cyclingheroes

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Bro Deal said:
Mircera/CERA stays in your system a long long time. It's designed to only be injected once a month. If Piepoli and Coba are on the stuff then they are goners also. We probably just need Piepoli the test results from Piepoli's stage win to come back.
the dose most athletes take require 2 injections a month...
 

plectrum

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rejobako said:
Some of the concoctions the participants have the benefit of these days -- bars/tubes of carbs/protein/glucose etc. -- work on the body almost like a drug
Er no .... have you ever taken drugs ... any drugs? :) The glucose Go Gel's are nothing like the effects a blood transfuion or EPO would be :) hahaha! All of these drugs basically take over your body and send it into the stratosphere - I read a recent article by a guy who underwent a steroid course and he said it was absolutely ridiculous the changes in his body and generaly strength - nothing could come close and cerainly not training.
 

cyclingheroes

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I am at the tour right now. the state prosecuter said this evening that Riccò stays under arrest. He will have to appear before court on Friday morning, the judge will decide if riccò will be released or not.
 

TheDarkLord

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plectrum said:
So why didn't ASO include them into the trap - do you really think that Prudholme hasn't planned this meticulously for nearly a year. I'm not sure you quite realise how massive this step is in the battle against doping.
(1) To use them as a pawn to sever the ties with UCI. You think this race would have proceeded as it has now if they didn't throw out Astana?
(2) To genuinely reduce the risk of scandal - I really don't think ASO relishes that they are busting so many riders.
(3) For the sake of PR.
 

poulidor

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Jul 31, 2006
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plectrum said:
So why didn't ASO include them into the trap - do you really think that Prudholme hasn't planned this meticulously for nearly a year. I'm not sure you quite realise how massive this step is in the battle against doping.

The famous statement by Michele Ferrari "If it doesn't show up in the drug controls, then it's not doping," no longer applies if ASO are tearing up the rule book and deciding not to actually write a new one.

Go ASO this RULEZ .... woot!

It must be an enjoyable race this year when 60% of the racers are having sleepless nights!
Difficult to predict to have a test for 3rd generation of EPO... CERA seems to be not officially released.
To damage Astana, the real way is the testing of Giro samples... for studies:D
 

Crankyfeet

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cyclingheroes said:
I am at the tour right now. the state prosecuter said this evening that Riccò stays under arrest. He will have to appear before court on Friday morning, the judge will decide if riccò will be released or not.
Thanks CH. Getting back to a point I made 4 pages ago. Ricco faces up to 5 years in jail. Unlikely to get the maximum sentence. But the French may be keen to set an example early. They have the problem of being consistent with all the positives though.

Ricco/Beltran etc. in prison may make cyclists think twice about doping for next year's event.
 

Espada9

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I’m curious how this is going to play out in the courts, I hate all the long drawn out drama and feeble excuses but considering that the test for this 3rd generation drug that has only been on the market for a year has NOT been validated as a reliable test method.

I hope someone documented the data used to allow this test to be considered reliable, including false positive test results, if so retrospective test validation could be established.
If not the case could fall apart against a good defense.

I say ban the dopers for life, or....................accept a drug induced sport and a few dead athletes once in a while.
 

plectrum

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TheDarkLord said:
(1) To use them as a pawn to sever the ties with UCI. You think this race would have proceeded as it has now if they didn't throw out Astana?
(2) To genuinely reduce the risk of scandal - I really don't think ASO relishes that they are busting so many riders.
(3) For the sake of PR.
good point - but how i long for Contador to be busted, he is such a slime ball.
 

plectrum

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Crankyfeet said:
Thanks CH. Getting back to a point I made 4 pages ago. Ricco faces up to 5 years in jail. Unlikely to get the maximum sentence. But the French may be keen to set an example early. They have the problem of being consistent with all the positives though.

Ricco/Beltran etc. in prison may make cyclists think twice about doping for next year's event.
Altough it would have a massive effect, I would feel very very very sorry for Ricco if he ends up with jail time, **** the kid is only 23, how about getting tough on the team managers, doctors, sponsors etc etc that force these kids into the murky world or doping.
 

plectrum

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Espada9 said:
I’m curious how this is going to play out in the courts, I hate all the long drawn out drama and feeble excuses but considering that the test for this 3rd generation drug that has only been on the market for a year has NOT been validated as a reliable test method.

I hope someone documented the data used to allow this test to be considered reliable, including false positive test results, if so retrospective test validation could be established.
If not the case could fall apart against a good defense.

I say ban the dopers for life, or....................accept a drug induced sport and a few dead athletes once in a while.
Firstly from my understanding of chemisty it is not a new test, it is just that they have looked for a different molecular weight which relates to CERA epo only. Basically I think that in Mass Spectoscopy you need to tell the machine what you are looking for. Hence there should be no problem with the actual test because it is not a new test just used to look for a new substance.

Secondly and more importantly it doesn't matter whether the validation can be established, ASO are pretty much in control of European road racing and they run private sponsored events outside the jurisdiction of a governing body. They can invite whoever they want a bit like World Wrestling Entertainment, the teams and cyclists have signed contracts and I am sure that ASO are completely within their rights to act exactly as they are doing.
 

Crankyfeet

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plectrum said:
Altough it would have a massive effect, I would feel very very very sorry for Ricco if he ends up with jail time, **** the kid is only 23, how about getting tough on the team managers, doctors, sponsors etc etc that force these kids into the murky world or doping.
+1.
 

fscyclist

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ad9898 said:
Just got home to hear this news..... what a dumb **** !!, it seems not much changes, I would sooner have the tours from a few years ago, they may have been doped but there was still some super-human performances, nowadays they are doping yet most of the performances we are seeing are average at best.

I mean I just loved the '97 tour when Jan blew them away on that St Etienne time trial by 3 mins :D , and seeing Virenque on the same time trial almost never sit in the saddle, Pantani on the Galibier in '98, doped, yet still great performances, what do we get now, Evans looking like he's passing a coconut :p
Best post of the thread. The racing the last three years has sucked (exception; Ras vs. Contador was pretty good)...and guess what, they still dope.
 

Bro Deal

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plectrum said:
Altough it would have a massive effect, I would feel very very very sorry for Ricco if he ends up with jail time, **** the kid is only 23, how about getting tough on the team managers, doctors, sponsors etc etc that force these kids into the murky world or doping.
I think that is a good point. Ricco must be high on his own success at such a young age. He is bound to have clouded judgement.

Someone was advising him to take a new drug like Mircera/CERA. The advisors and the doctors are the ones who should be sent up the river for five years.

I think the french police and prosecutors should give Ricco, Duenas, and Beltran a choice: Rat out everyone who helped and get a slap on the wrist, keep quite and take the fall yourself.
 

plectrum

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fscyclist said:
Best post of the thread. The racing the last three years has sucked (exception; Ras vs. Contador was pretty good)...and guess what, they still dope.
last year was insanely good until Ras got booted & Vinokourov's ride into the 'sun' was epic.

Floyd's year was pretty cool losing it and then winning it back, some of the Armstrong years were tame because from start to finish you were just waiting for him to destroy the field but then again some of those years were special.

I'm kinda freaked though that if Frank Schleck is clean (massive if) the EPO program only buys Pierpoli 28 seconds ..... ahhh they are all junkies!
 

serpico7

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plectrum said:
Altough it would have a massive effect, I would feel very very very sorry for Ricco if he ends up with jail time, **** the kid is only 23, how about getting tough on the team managers, doctors, sponsors etc etc that force these kids into the murky world or doping.
+1

Going after only the cyclists is a bit like going after prostitutes, but leaving the pimps alone.
 

plectrum

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Bro Deal said:
I think that is a good point. Ricco must be high on his own success at such a young age. He is bound to have clouded judgement.

Someone was advising him to take a new drug like Mircera/CERA. The advisors and the doctors are the ones who should be sent up the river for five years.

I think the french police and prosecutors should give Ricco, Duenas, and Beltran a choice: Rat out everyone who helped and get a slap on the wrist, keep quite and take the fall yourself.
Bro ... i'm 29 and still feel like a kid, I was a moron at 23 and certainly at 19-21 a complete retard!!! I think it must be almost impossible not to dope when everyone around you is, your team coach tells you to do it and the doctors say it will be perfectly safe ... and then you win a big race or perform exceptionally well and suddenly a big man in the team takes you aside and congratulates you kinda welcoming you into the fraternity.

Yes take responsabilities but the pressure in pro cycling to conform to the norm must be huge and especially when your idols i.e. Pantani were on the stuff.
 

fscyclist

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plectrum said:
last year was insanely good until Ras got booted & Vinokourov's ride into the 'sun' was epic.

Floyd's year was pretty cool losing it and then winning it back, some of the Armstrong years were tame because from start to finish you were just waiting for him to destroy the field but then again some of those years were special.

I'm kinda freaked though that if Frank Schleck is clean (massive if) the EPO program only buys Pierpoli 28 seconds ..... ahhh they are all junkies!
Yeah, Ras vs. Contador was the best racing I had seen since pre-Armstrong.

Floyd's ride was okay. However, the overall race was very, very subpar.
The one thing I liked about the Armstrong years (in retrospect) is that at least there was suspense. I was just waiting for that day when he would fail and get his ass kicked - problem is it never really happened. The closest I thought was the TT where Ullrich kicked his ass, which in turn made for the most interesting tour during 99-05.

Do you really think Schleck is clean? Be serious now....
 

TheDarkLord

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fscyclist said:
Yeah, Ras vs. Contador was the best racing I had seen since pre-Armstrong.

Floyd's ride was okay. However, the overall race was very, very subpar.
The one thing I liked about the Armstrong years (in retrospect) is that at least there was suspense. I was just waiting for that day when he would fail and get his ass kicked - problem is it never really happened. The closest I thought was the TT where Ullrich kicked his ass, which in turn made for the most interesting tour during 99-05.

Do you really think Schleck is clean? Be serious now....
CSC is on the same "anti-doping" program as Astana. That pretty much says it all to me.
 

plectrum

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fscyclist said:
Yeah, Ras vs. Contador was the best racing I had seen since pre-Armstrong.

Floyd's ride was okay. However, the overall race was very, very subpar.
The one thing I liked about the Armstrong years (in retrospect) is that at least there was suspense. I was just waiting for that day when he would fail and get his ass kicked - problem is it never really happened. The closest I thought was the TT where Ullrich kicked his ass, which in turn made for the most interesting tour during 99-05.

Do you really think Schleck is clean? Be serious now....
Problem with thinking Schleck is clean is that in interview after Hautacam he looked as if he had just done a couple of miles at the swimming pool rather than an HC climb at breakneck speed!