Exactly. Question answered.plectrum said:Problem with thinking Schleck is clean is that in interview after Hautacam he looked as if he had just done a couple of miles at the swimming pool rather than an HC climb at breakneck speed!
But then I kinda think that if CSC riders were caught rather than them going to jail someone like Damsgard should take the fall for being No.2 in Doctor Evil's Plan ... (Riis is No.1)fscyclist said:Exactly. Question answered.
I was just telling my wife about it, and she said "yea, you were saying you thought he would get busted the other day." Anyone need stock predictions?Malkmus said:Is anybody really surprised at Ricky Riccardo?
With Ricco's fashion sense, we should call him Ricco Suave.Malkmus said:Is anybody really surprised at Ricky Riccardo?
Bro...you keep coming back to this point... the scenario of the whole sordid underworld of organized and sanctioned doping crashing down in a cascade of domino-like confessions. I am in full agreement with you on this being the ultimate capitulation of the cancer that is doping in cycling or any other sport. However it is unfortunately unlikely to ever happen IMO. Based on the assumption that it would lead to most of the current peloton losing their careers and livelihood and that the powers that be would muffle the testimony of the first dominoes... as they have done in the recent past.Bro Deal said:I think that is a good point. Ricco must be high on his own success at such a young age. He is bound to have clouded judgement.
Someone was advising him to take a new drug like Mircera/CERA. The advisors and the doctors are the ones who should be sent up the river for five years.
I think the french police and prosecutors should give Ricco, Duenas, and Beltran a choice: Rat out everyone who helped and get a slap on the wrist, keep quite and take the fall yourself.
I think the only way to end a systemic problem like doping in cycling is to rip the cover off. Nailing riders, even a lot of riders and even with harsh punishments, won't work. The police have the tools to change the situation. If riders face real prison time, they will talk.Crankyfeet said:Bro...you keep coming back to this point... the scenario of the whole sordid underworld of organized and sanctioned doping crashing down in a cascade of domino-like confessions. I am in full agreement with you on this being the ultimate capitulation of the cancer that is doping in cycling or any other sport. However it is unfortunately unlikely to ever happen IMO. Based on the assumption that it would lead to most of the current peloton losing their careers and livelihood and that the powers that be would muffle the testimony of the first dominoes... as they have done in the recent past.
Look how far the Jaksche, Manzano, Sinkewitz confessions have gone. The problem is the farkers at the top. What we need is someone coming out with video-like evidence of UCI corruption... and the McDumbasses and Heiny-Verfuggins of this world will probably be making the scoot for the Swiss border like Saunier-Duval are doing for the Spanish border. Then we may get the domino confessions... if enough are implicated... and there is some kind of amnesty offered for pros perhaps.
I don't presume that any point I made is not already obvious. But the threat of some serious criminal punishment may encourage, as you say, the motivation to talk rather than take the fall for others. And Ricco may be the least discrete talker in the peloton, the one most likely to blab.
Bro, IMO, it is like a mafia. If one person alone tries to stand against it, he will be utterly destroyed. So, it is not surprising that nobody has tried to out the people behind the scenes. We know the corruption in the UCI to some extent, but how far does the web go? How are the GT organizers involved? I don't think they are pure as snow in this matter. Take a look at OP. No matter how hard the Germans and Italians have tried to pursue it, the lid gets shut thanks to the larger interests involved there.Bro Deal said:I think the only way to end a systemic problem like doping in cycling is to rip the cover off. Nailing riders, even a lot of riders and even with harsh punishments, won't work. The police have the tools to change the situation. If riders face real prison time, they will talk.
I do think there may be a chance to hit critical mass, where enough people have been busted and enough people have talked that omerta will lose its effectiveness. Riders like Ullrich and Landis are in a prison of their own making. By keeping queit they have created the stigma that is attached to them. The truth about the prevalance of doping reabilitates them to a large degree.
I have been thinking about this today, and I have to say my biggest problem is that doing time for sporting fraud just doesn't seem justified to me. I detest what doping does to sports, and especially my enjoyment of it, but I don't think jail time is warranted. I don't think people who do "recreational" drugs should go to jail either, so that is probably why. In many ways they sign up, and are then expected to do almost impossible things with their bodies. They take short cuts. I have done the same thing in my life with drugs, but in a different way. I think they need to be exposed, and people who enforce the code by forceful means while belittling those who know the truth deserve to be exposed most of all. But the blunt instrument of prison is not the solution in my opinion.Bro Deal said:I think the only way to end a systemic problem like doping in cycling is to rip the cover off. Nailing riders, even a lot of riders and even with harsh punishments, won't work. The police have the tools to change the situation. If riders face real prison time, they will talk.
I do think there may be a chance to hit critical mass, where enough people have been busted and enough people have talked that omerta will lose its effectiveness. Riders like Ullrich and Landis are in a prison of their own making. By keeping queit they have created the stigma that is attached to them. The truth about the prevalance of doping reabilitates them to a large degree.
Interesting - rumours are circulating that Piepoli tested positive in the Hautacam stage... so SD already knows and is trying to cut its losses...lucybears said:Dans un communiqué, la Saunier Duval annonce avoir licencié Riccardo Ricco et Leonardo Piepoli pour violation du code éthique. Piepoli n'ayant pas été contrôlé positif sur le Tour, la suspicion d'un système plus ou moins organisé dans l'équipe grandit...
lucybears said:Dans un communiqué, la Saunier Duval annonce avoir licencié Riccardo Ricco et Leonardo Piepoli pour violation du code éthique. Piepoli n'ayant pas été contrôlé positif sur le Tour, la suspicion d'un système plus ou moins organisé dans l'équipe grandit...
Im vacilating on the issue myself, but youve made excellent points.rejobako said:I think you have misconstrued my post. I didn't advocate that the sport assume they were doping -- in fact I suggested that the sport should allow everyone to ride until they actually test postive, which seems more equitable than singling out riders and teams based on supposition and innuendo. My position still stands -- until the rider tests positive, stop *****ing and let them ride.
In the alternative, I am all for dispensing with the testing altogether. At this point, it should be obvious that the testing methods are woefully inadequate -- testing does not identify the dopers -- it identifies unlucky dopers. It is an entirely arbitrary exercise to assume whether the successful riders are doping or not. We know that many riders dope -- hell, maybe all of them do. So long as the answer to that question is "who knows?", then I do not see the point in testing them at all. The playing field remains uneven with testing or without it -- so let them dope. The current system simply allows the federations and the organizers to play favorites as they choose, based upon bias and politics. If doping became legal, the people who are destroying the sport from within would be emasculated.
LOL!LewisBricktop said:Lets get back to slamming Ricco, not other posters. Wait, both are fun. Continue.
proof that drugs warp the mindRdBiker said:It's so obvious...of course it's Armstrong...
oh no it's not...
Basso only intended to dope...or actually...Rasmussen only lied about his whereabouts...and actually...Pantani just had a high HC...and if you really think about it...Hamilton had a twin...
Pete how are the reactions in Italy. Here at the tour everybody (from mechanics, to riders, to management) from Liquigas and Lampre are really angry with Riccò. (and with the others, including Beltran) I don't mean pr angry, but really angry in personal conversations.Powerful Pete said:A few pictures and some thoughts:
1. I think he has more gendarmes around him than Hannibal Lechter. Ergo, everyone loves TV time.
2. He does not look too freaked out to me.
angry that he was stupid and got caught? or genuinely angry b/c they want a cleaned up sport? sorry, and i hate being cynical, but seriously, when it comes to cycling these days, its hard not to.cyclingheroes said:Pete how are the reactions in Italy. Here at the tour everybody (from mechanics, to riders, to management) from Liquigas and Lampre are really angry with Riccò. (and with the others, including Beltran) I don't mean pr angry, but really angry in personal conversations.
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