Ride of Silence 2008

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by cfsmtb, May 5, 2008.

  1. Skewer

    Skewer Guest

    Plodder wrote:
    > "Adrian Tritschler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > <SNIPPED LOTS OF STUFF>
    >> Have had this happen quite a few times, ride up behind pedestrians and
    >> call out (loudly) *BIKE!* or "KEEP LEFT PLEASE". Due to pervesity, bad
    >> cases of get stuffed, or general perveseness they ignore you, or leap
    >> left, or leap right, then scream abuse telling you to get a bell.
    >> Obvious that they have heard, equally obvious that they don't give a
    >> damn or just want to be angry. AFAICT the various road laws state "An
    >> audible warning device such as a bell". My voice can be louder, more
    >> expressive and more controllable than any tink-tink bell and I'll be
    >> willing to argue that with any magistrate.

    > <SNIPPED MORE>
    >> Adrian

    >
    > A bell can be more effective than a voice. In a park, or other public space
    > (where shared paths often go through), people's natural filters will often
    > filter out voices (there are many of them around). They will be more alert
    > to a bell, which is not a part of the continuous background noise of voices.
    >

    <snipped even more>

    And here's the proof of the power of the bell

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtv2_-2mHck
    (in Japanese- no translation, sorry)

    Even in a supermarket!

    --
    Pete.B
     


  2. In aus.bicycle on Fri, 30 May 2008 22:24:59 +1000
    Aeek <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Its a big problem, with oversized bars as standard and funky frames
    > and seatposts its hard to find a bell that will fit anywhere on a
    > serious adult bike.


    Luckily I have a funny adult bike and so no problem.

    Zebee
     
  3. Moike

    Moike Guest

    Skewer wrote:
    > Plodder wrote:
    >> "Adrian Tritschler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> <SNIPPED LOTS OF STUFF>
    >>> Have had this happen quite a few times, ride up behind pedestrians and
    >>> call out (loudly) *BIKE!* or "KEEP LEFT PLEASE". Due to pervesity, bad
    >>> cases of get stuffed, or general perveseness they ignore you, or leap
    >>> left, or leap right, then scream abuse telling you to get a bell.
    >>> Obvious that they have heard, equally obvious that they don't give a
    >>> damn or just want to be angry. AFAICT the various road laws state "An
    >>> audible warning device such as a bell". My voice can be louder, more
    >>> expressive and more controllable than any tink-tink bell and I'll be
    >>> willing to argue that with any magistrate.

    >> <SNIPPED MORE>
    >>> Adrian

    >>
    >> A bell can be more effective than a voice. In a park, or other public
    >> space (where shared paths often go through), people's natural filters
    >> will often filter out voices (there are many of them around). They
    >> will be more alert to a bell, which is not a part of the continuous
    >> background noise of voices.
    >>

    > <snipped even more>
    >
    > And here's the proof of the power of the bell
    >
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtv2_-2mHck
    > (in Japanese- no translation, sorry)
    >
    > Even in a supermarket!
    >
    > --
    > Pete.B

    Love the bit on the escalator. What were they thinking was coming up
    behind?

    Moike
     
  4. On Thu, 29 May 2008 10:23:02 GMT, Adrian Tritschler
    <[email protected]> wrote in aus.bicycle:

    >
    >Have had this happen quite a few times, ride up behind pedestrians and
    >call out (loudly) *BIKE!* or "KEEP LEFT PLEASE". Due to pervesity, bad
    >cases of get stuffed, or general perveseness they ignore you, or leap
    >left, or leap right, then scream abuse telling you to get a bell.
    >Obvious that they have heard, equally obvious that they don't give a
    >damn or just want to be angry. AFAICT the various road laws state "An
    >audible warning device such as a bell". My voice can be louder, more
    >expressive and more controllable than any tink-tink bell and I'll be
    >willing to argue that with any magistrate.


    The advantage of a bell over any other method of warning is that
    people still associate them with a bike. I tried a horn with a rubber
    bulb that I bought 40years ago but all that did was frighten the shit
    out of people which was not the desired result.

    I would throw one of those tink tink bells away and replace it with
    the 'old fashioned' one with the rotary clapper they only cost a
    couple of dollars and are well worth the money if you use cycle paths
    a lot.


    Regards
    Dinsy

    Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum - Lucretius
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Guest

  6. Dave Hughes

    Dave Hughes Guest

    On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:36:46 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

    > Luckily I have a funny adult bike and so no problem.


    Other than a lack of elbow patches, a beard, and the respect of your peers!

    --
    Dave Hughes - [email protected]
    "Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer."
    - Peter da Silva
     
  7. Aeek

    Aeek Guest

    On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:07:41 +1000, Dave Hughes
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:36:46 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
    >
    >> Luckily I have a funny adult bike and so no problem.

    >
    >Other than a lack of elbow patches, a beard, and the respect of your peers!


    A beard is surely optional unless a mirkin is worn.
     
  8. In aus.bicycle on Sat, 31 May 2008 20:07:41 +1000
    Dave Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:36:46 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
    >
    >> Luckily I have a funny adult bike and so no problem.

    >
    > Other than a lack of elbow patches, a beard, and the respect of your peers!


    Damn. I'm never going to get away with the beard thing am I.

    Zebee
     
  9. G-S

    G-S Guest

    Aeek wrote:
    > On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:07:41 +1000, Dave Hughes
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:36:46 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
    >>
    >>> Luckily I have a funny adult bike and so no problem.

    >> Other than a lack of elbow patches, a beard, and the respect of your peers!

    >
    > A beard is surely optional unless a mirkin is worn.


    Errr.... ewwwwww.


    G-S
     
  10. Adam F

    Adam F Guest

    Simon wrote:
    > After last Friday's hit and run on the Vikings bunch, we're inspired
    > to get a RoS going in Canberra at late notice. Meeting tomorrow
    > (Wednesday the 7th May) 1pm at the Purple Pickle cafe in the ANU for
    > anyone interested in helping out.



    Bugger - wish I'd been reading on the 6th; I'd have been there.


    --
    //Adam F
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Guest

    On May 7, 10:53 am, TimC <[email protected]
    astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
    > On 2008-05-06, Simon (aka Bruce)
    > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
    >
    > > On May 6, 11:51 pm, cfsmtb <[email protected]
    > > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    > >> Any police action or follow up on what actually happened?

    >
    > > The cops took it seriously at the time, sending out the crash
    > > investigation people. I'm trying to chase up with them but having
    > > trouble getting on to the relevant people...

    >
    > Please post back with status when it happens...
    >
    > Were you in the bunch?
    >
    > --
    > TimC
    > Using top down development, you never have any working code. Using bottom
    > up development, you never solve the problem. -- John Kelly in debian-user


    Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
    cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
    that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
    ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
    then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
    is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
    accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
    you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?
     
  12. In aus.bicycle on Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
    Simon <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
    > cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
    > that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
    > ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
    > then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
    > is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
    > accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
    > you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?


    So what do you do if a cyclist *does* wobble or swerve into a car's
    path?

    Can a cyclist do wrong?

    Should the law be changed so that cyclists are never at fault, what
    effect with this have?

    Zebee
     
  13. Simon

    Simon Guest

    On Jun 5, 1:01 pm, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Can a cyclist do wrong?
    >


    Yes, and unfortunately I get in trouble for saying it here all the
    time. In fact I'm the guy who says cyclists need to make the first
    step and clean up their act. Is your point beyond reasonable doubt?
    Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that when justice is not served,
    or when it's just not followed up, one can be justified in getting
    angry. In this case the cyclists weren't doing anything wrong and the
    evidence points to a collision in the bike lane.

    Here's the background:
    The left front corner of the car struck the back wheel of one bike and
    the front of the one following. If the car was travelling in the lane,
    parallel to the gutter, then the first guy would have had to have been
    half way across the road and the other guy following his wheel. This
    second rider had his forks snapped straight off and went directly onto
    his head and face - barely any other bruises or scares. So the cyclist
    went over the handlebars.

    Two possible scenarios. 1) He had swerved into the car lane at about a
    45degree angle to the road, following the wheel of the fellow in
    front. 2) Or he was riding in the bike lane, parallel to the gutter.
    His unconscious body ended up right next to the gutter. The week
    after, the AFP investigation team went on a two week course. So the
    key witnesses were not interviewed till over two weeks later.

    "Should the law be changed so that cyclists are never at fault, what
    effect with this have?"
    My understanding is that in several European countries the onus is on
    the driver of the motor vehicle to prove they weren't at fault. So
    perhaps it's not all that far fetched.
     
  14. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

    Joined:
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    Has anyone contacted other groups, such as Pedal Power ACT or even a cycle-friendly local lawyer for advice? If the police seem unwilling to pursue further action, there's the option of a civil case.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Guest

    On Jun 5, 1:25 pm, cfsmtb <[email protected]
    mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    > Simon Wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Latest on the ACT "accident": Looks like a typical effort when
    > > cyclists are involved. His word against ours, no physical evidence
    > > that was convincing enough apparently, so this guy who goes around
    > > ramming fellow citizens with his car when they're in the cycle lane
    > > then hooning off without bothering to check if the unconscious victim
    > > is still alive, has received a WARNING for leaving the scence of an
    > > accident. Seems you can do what you want in this country, so long as
    > > you're behind the wheel of a car. I'm not happy. Any suggestions?

    >
    > Has anyone contacted other groups, such as Pedal Power ACT or even a
    > cycle-friendly local lawyer for advice? If the police seem unwilling to
    > pursue further action, there's the opinion of a civil case.
    >
    > --
    > cfsmtb


    We were hoping to avoid a civil case, but that will really be up to
    the injured guys and their insurance companies. Apparently (according
    to the AFP) the burden of proof in that case wouldn't be so onerous.
    More a case of who is the most likely to be at fault, even if it's 49%
    one way 51% the other.

    I was disappointed that the ACT Cycling Federation didn't want to act
    as an advocate for the group, given they were all ACTCF members
    training for ACTCF events. But they are all volunteers and they
    probably have their reasons. Pedal Power were informed by email early
    on, when we still thought the driver was going to be sanctioned, but
    they never followed it up. I'll send them another email today.

    I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
    pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
    when someone is injured, I thought. Given that they didn't think they
    could make other charges stick despite him being fairly obviously at
    fault, I thought maybe they'd want to push this one a bit harder.
     
  16. In aus.bicycle on Wed, 4 Jun 2008 20:43:20 -0700 (PDT)
    Simon <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
    > pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
    > when someone is injured, I thought. Given that they didn't think they
    > could make other charges stick despite him being fairly obviously at
    > fault, I thought maybe they'd want to push this one a bit harder.


    It does seem odd. Which means either the AFP are being complete
    arseholes or there's more to it, meaning less proof than thought.

    Zebee
     
  17. In article
    <[email protected]m>,
    Simon <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I guess one thing that gets me is that the AFP didn't want to even
    > pursue charges for not stopping, which is a pretty serious offence
    > when someone is injured, I thought.


    Perhaps you should tell them someone of middle-eastern appearance was
    involved -- that should get them all over the case.

    --
    Shane Stanley
     
  18. Aeek

    Aeek Guest

    On 5 Jun 2008 04:23:29 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It does seem odd. Which means either the AFP are being complete
    >arseholes or there's more to it, meaning less proof than thought


    Someone posted on http://the-riotact.com/ of a driver throwing rocks
    at other cars. Apparently the AFP weren't interested. After all, its
    not real crime. ProudLocal stopped posting after that.
     
  19. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

    Joined:
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    Seen this letter published in CN?
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/letters.php?id=letters/2008/06-05letters#7
     
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