Rider killed in Tucson

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Pete Beall, Mar 15, 2003.

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  1. Pete Beall

    Pete Beall Guest

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  2. Ccoolman74

    Ccoolman74 Guest

    I have some friends who were in this race today and heard that there was a massive pile up on
    the decent and the rider was thrown into oncoming traffic. I haven't heard the whole story yet
    since they were pretty shaken up obviously, but from the sounds it was not an intentional yellow
    line crossing.

    Chris
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle
    > Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow
    > crossed the centerline into an oncoming car.

    While a terrible tragedy, knowing how prevalent centerline violations are, the phrase "somehow
    crossed the centerline" strikes me more as an attempt to spin, rather than an accurate account.

    I hope I'm wrong, and that it was completely an accident, rather than a riding trying to use the
    whole road to descend faster.

    I also hope that racers will think about this before they cross the centerline with the thought
    that either a) the rules don't apply to them because they're stupid rules, or b) that they won't
    get caught.

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
     
  4. Pete Beall wrote:
    > Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle
    > Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow
    > crossed the centerline into an oncoming car.

    We have a few more details:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/mar03/mar16news2

    We expect the rider's name will be officially released when his family etc have been notified.

    It's been a bad week. Let's be careful out there.

    John Stevenson [email protected]
     
  5. Tony

    Tony Guest

  6. In article <[email protected]>, I wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle
    > > Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow
    > > crossed the centerline into an oncoming car.
    >
    >
    > While a terrible tragedy, knowing how prevalent centerline violations are, the phrase "somehow
    > crossed the centerline" strikes me more as an attempt to spin, rather than an accurate account.
    >
    > I hope I'm wrong, and that it was completely an accident, rather than a riding trying to use the
    > whole road to descend faster.
    >
    > I also hope that racers will think about this before they cross the centerline with the thought
    > that either a) the rules don't apply to them because they're stupid rules, or b) that they won't
    > get caught.

    And then in article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tony) wrote:

    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/mar03/mar16news2
    >
    > They have it that the rider crossed over while avoiding a serious crash that happened in
    > front of him.

    I don't know what the proper words I should use ... but for lack of anything better, while I'm still
    distressed that the accident occured, I'm relieved that this tragic event was truly an accident, and
    not the result of a rider's arrogance and/or stupidity.

    In the article Tony references, they also say that the 5 riders involved in the original crash
    (which forced our Mr. Lemire to swerve across the centerline) were all seriously injured as well,
    with one of the five needing to be airlifted to hospital, and all being hospitalized.

    My thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Lemire's family and friends, as well as with the other riders
    involved in the crash and those continuing in the final stage of the race tomorrow (Sunday).

    What a terrible, terrible week this has been.

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
     
  7. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle Classic
    >http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow crossed the
    >centerline into an oncoming car.

    ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    partecipating in any race until they close the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
     
  8. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    For the most part, in Canada, if you tried to close the whole road, you'd be racing in a 1km crit.
    course. In large races, it simply doesn't happen. If you want the long(ish) road race type of
    course, you generally only get half the road. You can refuse to race all you want, the outcome of
    which is that there would simply be no races ever again. Europe is a different world in this regard.

    Cheers,

    Scott..
    --
    Scott Anderson

    "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > partecipating in any race until they
    close
    > the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
     
  9. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed
    today in the
    > >Tucson Bicycle Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have
    heard that
    > >he was on a descent and somehow crossed the centerline into an
    oncoming car.
    >
    > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > partecipating in any race until
    they close
    > the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...

    Well, Davide, if we had to close the whole road we wouldn't have any racing at all. You don't think
    those city and county fathers are going to allow bicycles to close their roads even for the 10
    minutes it takes a race to pass do you? I've even watched cops waving cars across bike race courses
    in front of oncoming bunches.

    And I was under the impression that lower level racing in Europe only closed have of the
    road as well?
     
  10. Jim Quinn

    Jim Quinn Guest

    Exactly right. In Texas we have lots of road races but I can think of only one where there is a
    total road closure. Most local officials are not going to allow you to hold a race if you try to get
    a total closure. What you try to do is to find good roads which have very little traffic. You then
    have a couple of cops controlling what little traffic there is.

    It normally works pretty good.

    "S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > For the most part, in Canada, if you tried to close the whole road, you'd
    be
    > racing in a 1km crit. course. In large races, it simply doesn't happen.
    If
    > you want the long(ish) road race type of course, you generally only get
    half
    > the road. You can refuse to race all you want, the outcome of which is
    that
    > there would simply be no races ever again. Europe is a different world in this regard.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Scott..
    > --
    > Scott Anderson
    >
    > "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > > partecipating in any race until they
    > close
    > > the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
    > >
    >
     
  11. Have any of you retards ever heard of a rolling enclosure...? You don't have to close the whole
    freakin' road, just have a police escort in front of the main field (and any breaks). For most races
    you can do it for the price of the overtime rate of the cops for a few hours.

    "Jim Quinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Exactly right. In Texas we have lots of road races but I can think of
    only
    > one where there is a total road closure. Most local officials are not
    going
    > to allow you to hold a race if you try to get a total closure. What you
    try
    > to do is to find good roads which have very little traffic. You then have
    a
    > couple of cops controlling what little traffic there is.
    >
    > It normally works pretty good.
    >
    > "S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > For the most part, in Canada, if you tried to close the whole road,
    you'd
    > be
    > > racing in a 1km crit. course. In large races, it simply doesn't happen.
    > If
    > > you want the long(ish) road race type of course, you generally only get
    > half
    > > the road. You can refuse to race all you want, the outcome of which is
    > that
    > > there would simply be no races ever again. Europe is a different world
    in
    > > this regard.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > Scott..
    > > --
    > > Scott Anderson
    > >
    > > "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > > > partecipating in any race until they
    > > close
    > > > the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  12. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    hold my beer and watch this... wrote:
    > Have any of you retards ever heard of a rolling enclosure...? You don't have to close the whole
    > freakin' road, just have a police escort in front of the main field (and any breaks). For most
    > races you can do it for the price of the overtime rate of the cops for a few hours.

    I was leaving the gym yesterday and got caught in a rolling closure for a funeral. The motorcycle
    cops here have it down real good. It was a big procession so it took something like 20 cops. They
    apparently were on the clock. If they'd do it for a funeral maybe they'd do it for a bike race,
    though you're crossing jurisdictions.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  13. > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > partecipating in any race until they
    close
    > the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
    >
    My understanding was, that none of the road was closed to traffic. Traffic could flow both ways.
    The cyclists just flow with the cars. A lot of cheating with drafting of cars, was goin' on.
     
  14. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > hold my beer and watch this... wrote:
    > > Have any of you retards ever heard of a rolling enclosure...? You don't have to close the whole
    > > freakin' road, just have a police escort in
    front of
    > > the main field (and any breaks). For most races you can do it for the
    price
    > > of the overtime rate of the cops for a few hours.
    >
    > I was leaving the gym yesterday and got caught in a rolling closure for a funeral. The motorcycle
    > cops here have it down real good. It was a big procession so it took something like 20 cops. They
    > apparently were on the clock. If they'd do it for a funeral maybe they'd do it for a bike race,
    > though you're crossing jurisdictions.
    >
    > --
    I've ridden a collegiate race at UVA where they more or less had a rolling enclosure. Coming around
    some of the bends on the little roads outside Crozet, you never could tell what was going to be
    sitting in the oncoming traffic lane... Good thing Crozet is in outer BFE. There were only a few
    times that there was actually something there, but lord help you if the impatient SOBs in the cars
    take off after being stopped by the officials, and before the pack gets there!

    Mike


    > --
    > Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    > could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
    > in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  15. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    A rolling enclosure still requires the centreline rule as only half the road is used. A protected
    enclosure involves full road use but also requires the entire road to be closed ahead and behind of
    the pack. This requires significant resources in police and marshalling and is generally
    cost-prohibitive for all but the highest level events that have excellent sponsor participation and
    higher race fees. If a rolling enclosure is used, the opportunity for a head-on collision by someone
    going over the centre-line is still present. I'm not sure, but a Cat II race is probably not
    sufficiently well-sponsored to use a protected enclosure system. Most racers I know cry about $40
    entrance fees, I doubt they'd hand over another $40 to cover extra police and marshalls for a
    protected enclosure. But you're welcome to try at the next race you organize..

    Scott..
    --
    Scott Anderson

    "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Have any of you retards ever heard of a rolling enclosure...? You don't have to close the whole
    > freakin' road, just have a police escort in front
    of
    > the main field (and any breaks). For most races you can do it for the
    price
    > of the overtime rate of the cops for a few hours.
     
  16. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    DanSchmatz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I just received a flyer in the mail for the Nature Valley Grand Prix and one of the bullet
    > points was:

    > "FULL ROLLING ENCLOSURES Sick of the centerline rule? You'll get the whole road at our races."

    > I guess they have figured out away to do it.

    We went through this not too long ago. If you are running a single field or maybe two, then you can
    do this. If your race is like most in the US, a number of fields divided by age and/or category then
    no one is doing this. Not even the guys that say it is easy.

    This is eerie. There is a race that used to be held near here that the promoter and I were
    discussing reviving. It had a 500 ft drop on a twisting road where highway speeds are very possible.
    The promoter decided to back away due to concern about what could possibly happen if someone blew a
    tire on that descent and went into the guardrail at 60mph. I imagine he's feeling pretty good about
    that decision.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  17. Steven Gee

    Steven Gee Guest

    "just like it happens here in Europe ..." Like every thing is better in Europe. I have seen some
    road races in France, comparable in level to the Tuscon race, and the whole road was not closed. A
    lead car would have the oncoming traffic pull over to the unpaved shoulder where the R5's would wait
    for the last rider before they putt putted away.

    Europe is the old world, and how quaint it is. The US is the evolution of the old world.

    [email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle
    > >Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow
    > >crossed the centerline into an oncoming car.
    >
    > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > partecipating in any race until they close the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
     
  18. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    Davide,

    The do not usually close ANY part of the road. They merely allow us to race on the road along with
    the automobile traffic. If we dare to cross the center line, we get disqualified. A few of the
    larger races do close the road to automobile traffic, but very few.

    -k

    [email protected] (Davide Tosi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Pete Beall" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Sorry to be the one to post this, but a Cat II rider was killed today in the Tucson Bicycle
    > >Classic http://www.casaschurch.org/tbc/ . I have heard that he was on a descent and somehow
    > >crossed the centerline into an oncoming car.
    >
    > ???? In the US they close just half the road for races? I think all you guys should stop
    > partecipating in any race until they close the whole road, just like it happens here in Europe ...
     
  19. Donald Munro

    Donald Munro Guest

    Steven Gee wrote:
    > "just like it happens here in Europe ..." Like every thing is better in Europe. I have seen some
    > road races in France, comparable in level to the Tuscon race, and the whole road was not closed. A
    > lead car would have the oncoming traffic pull over to the unpaved shoulder where the R5's would
    > wait for the last rider before they putt putted away.

    At least European drivers aren't a bunch of fat stupid assholes who drive overweight SUV's and
    prefer risking killing somebody rather than losing 5 seconds on their trip.

    > Europe is the old world, and how quaint it is. The US is the evolution of the old world.

    Evolution or mutation ?
     
  20. In message <[email protected]>, Steven Gee <[email protected]> writes
    >Europe is the old world, and how quaint it is. The US is the evolution of the old world.

    I don't see the relevance of this statement to the rest of the thread.
    Mr. Gee should open his eyes to the real world. Does he even have a passport?
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
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