I'm looking into taking a group of "A" riders from Las Vegas to Big Bear Lake (or Arrowhead Lake) this fall for a weekend of riding. We want a challenging 80-100 mile ride on Saturday and a 40-50 mile ride on Sunday, with lots of climbing on both rides. Any suggestions on specific routes? And, how late in the year can you ride without cold weather clothes in the Big Bear area (e.g., temps at least in the 40s at the tops of the climbs)? I was thinking about using SR18 and SR38 for the long ride (don't know whether it's better clockwise or counterclockwise). Looks like ~9K' of gross climbing. Is that a good route? Any input would be welcomed.