riding posture question

I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep
this focused:

After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start to
get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
this suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it doesn't
seem natural.

(disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly - all these things help to some degree)

Thanks,

Kyle

 

<< After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

Have you had a bike fit with a good bike fit person? With special attention to your problem?

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

> << After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper
ass?)
> muscles invariably start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.
>
> Have you had a bike fit with a good bike fit person? With special
attention to
> your problem?
>

No, but I've spent a lot of time myself trying different positions - high stem, low stem, short
stem, long stem. Short of riding a stright upright hybrid or a recumbent, nothing seems to make much
of a difference. I'm pretty much in the Rivendell recommended position (although I don't ride a
Rivendell, bummer).

http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_riv5.html

I think I'm going to try my damndest to keep my back flat for the next couple of rides - just wanted
to see if anyone had similar successes/failures with that.

>
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

> After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
> to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

I ride on average 200-300 miles per week. I've had this problem. I bought a new saddle (not because
of my back hurting) and in doing so, positioned it differently at my bike fitters recommendation.
This helped quite a bit. He had several suggestions on posture. Get out of the saddle for a short
distance before my back began to hurt much, and keep my elbows a little more tucked in to help keep
my back straight. In my case, more riding made my trunk stronger, helping my back to stay
straighter.

If you haven't already, consider getting refitted on your bike. As I got stronger and my body
changed, slight changes in the fit were beneficial to
me.

Cheers

Paul J Pharr

 

Flexability issue- sounds like it anyway! Careful if your hamstrings are to tight the back is forced
to flex where it does not want to. Leading to swolen disks..bad bad bad. Do not ride through pain
(unless racing), it is a warning. Extra stretching may be needed, if you cant hold a flexed position
off the bike do not go near it till you can.

"KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
> focused:
>
> After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
> to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.
>
> Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
> somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
> severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
this
> suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it doesn't
> seem natural.
>
> (disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
> climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -
all
> these things help to some degree)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

 

KBH wrote:
> I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
> focused:
>
> After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
> to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.
>
> Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
> somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
> severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
> this suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it
> doesn't seem natural.
>
> (disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
> climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly - all these things help to some degree)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

You'll notice that women seem to ride with a flatter back and men with a more rounded back. I don't
know why but I suppose we all ride the way we are built. I do a lot of back and upper body
strenghtening in the gym and have never had any problems except for my neck. That's an old whiplash
thing that seems to be getting better now I started seeing a chiropractor and also raised my
handlebars a little..

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably
> > start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

> Flexability issue- sounds like it anyway! Careful if your hamstrings are to tight the back is
> forced to flex where it does not want to. Leading to swolen disks..bad bad bad. Do not ride
> through pain (unless racing), it is a warning. Extra stretching may be needed, if you cant hold a
> flexed position off the bike do not go near it till you can.

Perhaps this sympom can come from a variety of sources, but mine seems to come from the "tight
hamstrings" mentioned above. Regular stretching seems to help, about the only thing that does.

 

I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a RockShox road suspension
seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore my saddle height is a bit nebulous,
although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated. I've always gone with a SH of about
79, with a PBH of about 91.

I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went with KOPS that would help
straighten out my back.

I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

Thanks again,

Kyle

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> kbh-<< No, but I've spent a lot of time myself trying different
positions -
> high stem, low stem, short stem, long stem. Short of riding a stright upright hybrid or a
> recumbent,
>
> Have you had your seat height and knee position checked? I think that is
the
> place to start. If that is not proper, the rest of the fit is somewhat arbitrary.
>
>
>
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

"KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a
RockShox
> road suspension seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore
my
> saddle height is a bit nebulous, although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated.
> I've always gone with a SH of about 79, with a PBH of about 91.
>
> I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went
with
> KOPS that would help straighten out my back.
>
> I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Kyle
>
That $50 for a proper fitting is probably the best investment you can make in your riding career.
Beats all the Ti widgets you can hang on your bike hands down!

Go get fit.

Mike

 

As others have mentioned bike fit and stretching may have their place in your problem. I have this
issue on long rides going up steep hills. What I found to work well is an exercise for the lower
back. Backward Leg lifts (the half locust pose in yoga, only I add reps). You lay down on your
stomach, arms at the side of your body, hands under your thighs with your palms on the floor. Lift
one leg up as high as comfortable and hold it (leg is extended), do a few reps, then the other leg.
This exercise has helped to eliminate my lower back pain on long steep climbs. For some reason
though I couldn't get there just by doing the climbs. Now, even though I don't do the exercise that
much anymore, all the steep climbing rides I do keeps me quite capable at this exercise.

"KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so
I
> want to keep this focused:
>
> After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
> to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.
>
> Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
> somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
> severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
this
> suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think this may help but it doesn't
> seem natural.
>
> (disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often get out of the saddle to
> climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -
all
> these things help to some degree)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle

 

> I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep this
> focused:
>
> After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
> to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

When you stand up, you restore the normal lumbar curvature and the pain goes away. In the riding
position, I'd guess that your lower back is arched and causing your pain.

If I were you, I'd check for a saddle that's too high and/or far back (especially the latter);
and/or handlebars too far away. And I'd check for overly tight hamstrings and glutes (try some
gentle stretching). Ab strengthening (e.g., crunches, situps, etc) may help.

 

"one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As others have mentioned bike fit and stretching may have their place in your problem. I have this
> issue on long rides going up steep hills.
What
> I found to work well is an exercise for the lower back. Backward Leg
lifts
> (the half locust pose in yoga, only I add reps). You lay down on your stomach, arms at the side of
> your body, hands under your thighs with your palms on the floor. Lift one leg up as high as
> comfortable and hold it (leg is extended), do a few reps, then the other leg. This exercise has
> helped to eliminate my lower back pain on long steep climbs.

I tried your suggestion but I have a hell of a time keeping my hands under my thighs on long
steep hills.

Descents are no problem though.

> For some reason though I couldn't get there just by doing the climbs. Now, even though I don't do
> the exercise that much anymore, all the steep climbing rides I do keeps me quite capable at this
> exercise.
>
>
> "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so
> I
> > want to keep this focused:
> >
> > After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably
> > start to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.
> >
> > Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
> > somewhat (the natural slouching position, a
little
> > like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as severe), or by forcing your belly button towards
> > the top tube and maintaining a straight back? Saw
> this
> > suggestion in the FAQ and wanted to solicit some opinions. I think
this
> > may help but it doesn't seem natural.
> >
> > (disclaimer - my bars are near the same height as the saddle, I often
get
> > out of the saddle to climb, I stretch and do back excercises regularly -
> all
> > these things help to some degree)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kyle
> >
>

 

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 +0000, KBH wrote:

> Have those of you with lower back pain had better luck letting your back relax and bend forward
> somewhat (the natural slouching position, a little like Lance's arc'd back position, but not as
> severe), or by forcing your belly button towards the top tube and maintaining a straight back?

I don't even think about my back when riding, but this idea of forcing your belly-button down
towards the top tube (mine is low enough as it is!) sounds very, very painful because of other
things that would be forced downward as well, but which would run into the saddle. You want to keep
your hips upright enough so that you are sitting on the "sit bones" on the sides of the back-bottom
of your hips, and not sitting directly on your balls.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve _`\(,_ | death. And some that die
deserve life. Can you give it to (_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in
judgement. -- J. R. R. Tolkein

 

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:39:55 +0000, KBH wrote:

> I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went with KOPS that would help
> straighten out my back.

Maybe. "An inch or two" behind KOPS is pretty far back.
>
> I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.

It would be a good investment.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | We have a record of conquest, colonization and expansion _`\(,_ | unequalled by any people
in the Nineteenth Century. We are not (_)/ (_) | to be curbed now. --Henry Cabot Lodge, 1895

 

"Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > I probably need to do that. One issue is that I'm currently using a
> RockShox
> > road suspension seatpost to soften the bumps on my poor spine, therefore
> my
> > saddle height is a bit nebulous, although I know I get about 1 cm of compression while seated.
> > I've always gone with a SH of about 79, with a PBH of about 91.
> >
> > I know that an inch or two behind KOPS is good for me - maybe if I went
> with
> > KOPS that would help straighten out my back.
> >
> > I guess I'm just avoiding the $50 for a proper fitting.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> That $50 for a proper fitting is probably the best investment you can make in your riding career.
> Beats all the Ti widgets you can hang on your bike hands down!
>
> Go get fit.
>
> Mike
Complete rubbish Mike. Anyone who can ride a bike can fit one to himself. Read the book or look at
the pictures. One more thing to separate cyclists from their money.

 

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't intend for this get into a massive thread on lower back pain, so I want to keep
>this focused:
>
>After about an hour and a half in the saddle, my lower back (upper ass?) muscles invariably start
>to get sore. Standing up straight immediately relieves this discomfort.

I see there are already a bunch of responses about bike fit potentially being the problem. Let me
add my $.02.

I too have been experiencing lower back pain lately after an hour and a half or two hours. I haven't
changed my position on the bike in over ten years. What's different; I've gotten lazy over this past
winter about doing crunches.

I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles or
so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about 40,
so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.

If I follow through with my new found commitment perhaps I should post if the pain goes away.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

 

> I too have been experiencing lower back pain lately after an hour and a half or two hours. I
> haven't changed my position on the bike in over ten years. What's different; I've gotten lazy over
> this past winter about doing crunches.
>
> I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
> my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles
> or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about
> 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.
>
> If I follow through with my new found commitment perhaps I should post if the pain goes away.
>

I think my regimen will consist of crunches, hamstring stretches, as well as back strengthening
excercises. I've been told by a back doctor that my spine takes a sharper than normal turn towards
my pelvis (the turn that allows you to put your hand under you lower back while lying down flat).
Therefore, my belief is that my lower back muscles are shorter and tighter than most people's, hence
the discomfort when these muscles are stretched for an hour or two, which led to my hypothesis that
maintining a flat back while riding would help the situation.

One way the Dr. suggested to offset this curvature is to strengthen my abs. I also imagine that
stretching these musles in conjunction with my hams shoudl help. Lying on my stomach over a swedish
ball stretched the hell oout of them.

Thanks,

Kyle

 

John Everett wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the rest of
> my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the last 10 miles
> or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started protesting after about
> 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have some work to do.
>

What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| John Everett wrote:
| > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
| >
| > I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the
| > rest of my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the
| > last 10 miles or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started
| > protesting after about 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have
| > some work to do.
| >
|
| What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?
|
| --
| Perre
|
| You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
|
Basically, a limited range sit-up...concentrating more on intense contraction of abs, as opposed to
physically sitting up...many variations...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=stomach+crunches&btnG =Google+Search

ED3

 

abdominal workouts

basically lie on your back, knees up (or calves resting on a bench) and contract your abs just until
your shoulder blades are off the ground - hold briefly and repeat again and again and again....

I also do leg lifts, where I lie flat and lift my legs from 0 to 90 degrees and hold. Good for the
lower abs.

Kyle

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Everett wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:16:03 GMT, "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I swore many years ago because of back problems that I would do crunches regularly for the
> > rest of my life. Somehow I've lapsed. After getting home from yesterday's 40 mile ride, the
> > last 10 miles or so in pain, I got down and did some crunches. My stomach muscles started
> > protesting after about 40, so I only did 50. I used to do over a hundred at a time, so I have
> > some work to do.
> >
>
> What are crunches? Abdominal or lower back workouts?
>
> --
> Perre
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.