Riding to right of white line

[mary]

In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers have
the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff that
is located there.

Thanks

Tom

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, tombates@city-
net.com says...
> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
> white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers have
> the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
> breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
> illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
> and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
> dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff that
> is located there.


Bikes do have the same rights and responsibilities as cars as far as
obeying traffic signs and signals, yielding the right-of-way, etc.
However, positioning in the lane is almost always (*always*, IME)
specified differently for bikes than for _motor_ vehicles. The most
common rules essentially say that you should ride as far to the right as
is practical. What is "practical" is up to your judgement, and will
vary with traffic, road and weather conditions, and may at times require
you to take the center of the lane.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

 

[BanditManDan]

Mary wrote:
> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of
> the white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since
> bikers have the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right
> of the line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I
> was riding illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in
> Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state.
> Sometimes it is dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk
> and other stuff that is located there.
> Thanks
> Tom



Most (if not all) state laws consider bicycles vehicles and are required
to obey the normal traffic laws/rules when riding on the road. I don't
think it's illegal to ride on the shoulder unless it's marked as an
emergency lane but most emergency lanes are only on interstate highways
and you probably arn't allowed to ride a bicycle there anyway.

Dan.



--

 

[Frank Krygowski]

mary (or maybe Tom) wrote:

> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
> white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers have
> the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
> breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
> illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
> and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
> dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff that
> is located there.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom

In general, the white line has little or no bearing on where I choose to
ride. That's true if it's a fog line, or if it's a bike lane stripe.

I choose my road position based on how wide the useable pavement is. A
surface with gravel, potholes & trash isn't useable. Getting too close
to a pavement edge isn't good, either. White line or no white line, I
won't ride where it's too risky. And of course, if there's not enough
room for a car to safely pass, I'll take the lane.

I live just over the state line in Ohio, and I ride in Pennsylvania a
lot. I've never had any trouble with this issue. So don't worry. Just
ride where it's safe.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

 

[Matt O'Toole]

mary wrote:

> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right
> of the white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that
> since bikers have the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to
> the right of the line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they
> could claim I was riding illegally.

Someone else being charged or blamed for an accident depends on whether *they*
were doing something illlegal, not you.

This is a common misconception about law. People seem to think that any mistake
they make invalidates any other claim they might have, like in children's games.
This is simply not true. The law is more sophisticated than that.

In your case, riding a bicycle or driving a car to the right of the fog line is
probably not illegal. What *is* illegal is not passing safely, or not
maintaining a safe following distance. So if someone hits you from behind,
they're almost always 100% at fault, unless it can be proven you were riding
erratically.

> I was wondering what the
> situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling the rules
> differ from state to state. Sometimes it is dangerous to ride on the
> side because of all the junk and other stuff that is located there.

This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left of the fog line, but
"as far to the right as practicable" (as VA law says, and probably PA law too).
It is the responisbility of other vehicles to pass safely.

Matt O.

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

mary <[email protected]> wrote:
>In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
>white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers have
>the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
>breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
>illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
>and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
>dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff that
>is located there.

In California everything to the right of the white line on the right
side of the road is the "shoulder" (unless it is called a "bicycle lane"
or something else on a sign). Vehicles may not in general travel on the
shoulder, but an exception is written into the law for bicycles which
may (or may not at, their option) use it.

Assuming the definitions are the same I think the situation is identical
in Pennsylvania. Take a look at

http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/palaw.htm

in section 3505 for the exception.

Dennis Ferguson

 

[Michael Press]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left of the fog line, but
>"as far to the right as practicable" (as VA law says, and probably PA law too).
>It is the responisbility of other vehicles to pass safely.

What's a fog line?

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left of the fog line, but
> >"as far to the right as practicable" (as VA law says, and probably PA law too).
> >It is the responisbility of other vehicles to pass safely.
>
> What's a fog line?

The line along the right (or left in countries which drive on the left)
edge of the outside lane, which separates the driving lane from the
shoulder.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Michael Press wrote:

> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left of the
>> fog line, but "as far to the right as practicable" (as VA law says,
>> and probably PA law too). It is the responisbility of other vehicles
>> to pass safely.
>
> What's a fog line?

That's the common technical term for the white line along the side of the road.
Its purpose is to make the edge of the road more visible in fog, and/or at
night.

Matt O.

 

[Fritz M]

"mary" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Somewhere I read that since bikers have
> the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
> breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
> illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
> and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/bikelaws.htm has a summary of
Pennsylvania law that pertains to cyclists. Cyclists are permitted but
not always required to ride to the right of the line. Where bicycle
traffic is permitted on freeways, cyclists are required to ride in the
shoulder.

Colorodo (where I live) law states that cyclists must ride in the
paved shoulder if one is provided, with the usual provisos about
overtaking traffic, obstructions, etc.

RFM

 

[Claire Petersky]

There's a couple places where I ride -- one within a quarter mile of my
house -- where the fog line is crumbling and vegetation is growing on it. In
the case of the road near my house, the vegetation is several feet tall and
hangs over into the street. You can believe no one rides or drives to the
right of the fog line for that stretch!


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Joe Faust]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:59:32 -0400, "mary" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
>white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers have
>the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line is
>breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
>illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
>and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
>dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff that
>is located there.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom

I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of the white
line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has right-hooked me and
turned into a shopping mall immediately ahead of me.

Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was midday, moving
about 12mph, and the woman driver to my left passed me and immediately
made a right into the mall. I braked hard, she apparently didn't even
see me and continued on her way.

A similar incident many months ago at another mall entrance in another
town makes me think that it is much better in town areas to just take
the road to the right of the white line and make sure that traffic is
aware of your presence. By the way, last week I had a tail flasher
running during that broad daylight near miss.

 

[curt]

"Joe Faust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:59:32 -0400, "mary" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of
the
> >white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that since bikers
have
> >the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the line
is
> >breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I was riding
> >illegally. I was wondering what the situation is. I live in Pennsylvania,
> >and I have a feeling the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it
is
> >dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and other stuff
that
> >is located there.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Tom
>
> I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of the white
> line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has right-hooked me and
> turned into a shopping mall immediately ahead of me.
>
> Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was midday, moving
> about 12mph, and the woman driver to my left passed me and immediately
> made a right into the mall. I braked hard, she apparently didn't even
> see me and continued on her way.


I doubt she didn't see you. I find many women are very aggressive drivers
and she just didn't want to wait two seconds for you to get past the
entrance. She was most likely driving an SUV.

Curt

 

[Pbwalther]

>I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of the white
>line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has right-hooked me and
>turned into a shopping mall immediately ahead of me.
>

I find that riding very far to the right seems to be an invitation for every
motorist in creation to right hook me. Well, I am using a bit of hyperbole.

I think if one is pretty far to the right, you become irrelevant to the
motorist as they pass you. Once they have passed you, they seem to forget
about your existance and they feel free to slow way down and make a right turn.

I find that in situations where motorists are very likely to make right turns
and if my speed is fairly high, I will move farther from the shoulder. If the
motorist has to manuever around me, it makes it a little harder for them to
right hook me and it makes it more likely for them to just slow down and turn
right.

Riding in a paved would really "encourage" right hooks.

Of course, even when the traffic is not moving fast, if I take a lane and I am
moving at the speed of the traffic, it does send some motorists right round the
bend into near apoplecty. Sometimes I wonder if turning the ignition key
halves the intelligence or something.

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

Joe Faust <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of the white
>line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has right-hooked me and
>turned into a shopping mall immediately ahead of me.
>
>Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was midday, moving
>about 12mph, and the woman driver to my left passed me and immediately
>made a right into the mall. I braked hard, she apparently didn't even
>see me and continued on her way.
>
>A similar incident many months ago at another mall entrance in another
>town makes me think that it is much better in town areas to just take
>the road to the right of the white line and make sure that traffic is
>aware of your presence. By the way, last week I had a tail flasher
>running during that broad daylight near miss.

I've found that the general difference between riding on the right and
further out in the lane is that, in the former case, the close calls with
drivers more often occur in front of you, where you see them and get
scared, while in the latter case the close calls with drivers more often
occur behind you, where you are more likely to be blissfully unaware of
them unless they actually get you.

There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways depending on where
I am, but generally will keep right if there is space over there, letting
the cars go by unimpeded but treating intersections and driveways with
a considerable degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as much stuff as
possible occur in front of me, where I might have some control over my
fate, rather than behind me, where I'm entirely dependent on the drivers
to not kill me.

And, to tell the truth, if you ride frequently but you've only had this
happen twice in a year you aren't so doing badly. This happens to me
more often than that, even though I live in the SF Bay area where
I generally find the drivers to be more careful about cyclists than
the other places I've lived.

Dennis Ferguson

 

[MortDubois]

"mary" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to the right of the
> white line on the berm of the road.<

In eastern Pennsylvania, especially in Lancaster country, the roads
are often made with especially wide shoulders so that the Amish can
ride their buggies and bikes on the shoulder. I doubt that it is
illegal to ride a bike to the right of the line. In my experience, if
I am on a road with a wide and clean shoulder I will ride on or to the
right of the line - especially on high speed 2 lane roads. Around
here, drivers who see that you are doing your best to stay right, and
don't have to make drastic manouvers to pass you, are happy drivers.
Once I get into a town, where traffic is slower, I get farther out
into the lane to avoid the right hook and the opening door. Also, I
make an attempt to keep my speed up close to that of the traffic,
clearly signal where I am going, stop at stop signs and lights, and
give a thank you wave to any driver who is even slightly courteous.
If I am riding out in the lane to avoid debris, and a car is stuck
behind me, I point at the debris so that the car has some
understanding of WHY I am out there - this also helps keeps things
friendly. You always have to be on the lookout for that right hook,
though, and be aware of any situation where turning traffic can bean
you.

Paul

 

[Frank Krygowski]

Dennis Ferguson wrote:

>
> I've found that the general difference between riding on the right and
> further out in the lane is that, in the former case, the close calls with
> drivers more often occur in front of you, where you see them and get
> scared, while in the latter case the close calls with drivers more often
> occur behind you, where you are more likely to be blissfully unaware of
> them unless they actually get you.

That's not my experience. Riding further left generally gets me _more_
clearance from passing cars.

True story, related to me by a guy who took an Effective Cycling class
from me:

He and his wife were on vacation, riding their tandem on an unfamiliar
and somewhat busy highway. The road was narrow, and there was very
little shoulder.

He had been riding as close as he could to the right, and cars were
continually scaring them by squeezing by too close. He said to his wife
"You know, Frank said that if you go further left and take the lane, the
cars will pass with more clearance." She agreed that they should try
it, so they did.

He said it transformed the ride. Sometimes cars did have to wait to
pass, due to oncoming traffic. There was no rude reaction to this. And
in every case, when a car passed, there was at _least_ 4 feet of clearance.

Almost all drivers, when they have to partially enter the left lane to
pass, will enter it pretty thoroughly. They'll get _way_ over. You'll
get _more_ passing clearance.

>
> There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways depending on where
> I am, but generally will keep right if there is space over there, letting
> the cars go by unimpeded but treating intersections and driveways with
> a considerable degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as much stuff as
> possible occur in front of me, where I might have some control over my
> fate, rather than behind me, where I'm entirely dependent on the drivers
> to not kill me.

Strictly speaking you're _always_ dependent on drivers not to kill you.
But they won't kill you. They hate the paperwork.

It's true you have to use some judgement. I use a rear view mirror to
help with that judgement. But don't be afraid of taking your right to
the road.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

 

[Bernie]

Frank Krygowski wrote:

> Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>
>>
>> I've found that the general difference between riding on the right and
>> further out in the lane is that, in the former case, the close calls
>> with
>> drivers more often occur in front of you, where you see them and get
>> scared, while in the latter case the close calls with drivers more often
>> occur behind you, where you are more likely to be blissfully unaware of
>> them unless they actually get you.
>
>
> That's not my experience. Riding further left generally gets me
> _more_ clearance from passing cars.
>
> True story, related to me by a guy who took an Effective Cycling class
> from me:
>
> He and his wife were on vacation, riding their tandem on an unfamiliar
> and somewhat busy highway. The road was narrow, and there was very
> little shoulder.
>
> He had been riding as close as he could to the right, and cars were
> continually scaring them by squeezing by too close. He said to his
> wife "You know, Frank said that if you go further left and take the
> lane, the cars will pass with more clearance." She agreed that they
> should try it, so they did.
>
> He said it transformed the ride. Sometimes cars did have to wait to
> pass, due to oncoming traffic. There was no rude reaction to this.
> And in every case, when a car passed, there was at _least_ 4 feet of
> clearance.
>
> Almost all drivers, when they have to partially enter the left lane to
> pass, will enter it pretty thoroughly. They'll get _way_ over.
> You'll get _more_ passing clearance.
>
>>
>> There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways depending on where
>> I am, but generally will keep right if there is space over there,
>> letting
>> the cars go by unimpeded but treating intersections and driveways with
>> a considerable degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as much stuff as
>> possible occur in front of me, where I might have some control over my
>> fate, rather than behind me, where I'm entirely dependent on the drivers
>> to not kill me.
>
>
> Strictly speaking you're _always_ dependent on drivers not to kill
> you. But they won't kill you. They hate the paperwork.
>
> It's true you have to use some judgement. I use a rear view mirror to
> help with that judgement. But don't be afraid of taking your right to
> the road.
>
I agree. When I get careless, or nervous, and ride too far to the
right, the semis pass without moving over at all. Leaves zero room for
error and most legitimately scares the **** out of me.

If in doubt or uncomfortable with drivers' behaviour, ride wider.
Motorists will do a better, safer job of passing.
Bernie

 

[Pat]

> That's not my experience. Riding further left generally gets me _more_
> clearance from passing cars.
> --------------------+
> Frank Krygowski [

I have noticed from our club rides that when we hug the right edge of the
road it tempts car drivers to pass us without leaving the lane. That's
scary, and I don't intend to ride that way any more!

Pat in TX

 

[Roger Zoul]

Pat wrote:
::: That's not my experience. Riding further left generally gets me
::: _more_ clearance from passing cars.
::: --------------------+
::: Frank Krygowski [
::
:: I have noticed from our club rides that when we hug the right edge
:: of the road it tempts car drivers to pass us without leaving the
:: lane. That's scary, and I don't intend to ride that way any more!
::
:: Pat in TX

I've noticed the same thing...