Riding to right of white line

[Mary]

In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
other stuff that is located there.

Thanks

Tom

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
tombates@city- net.com says...
> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
> the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
> Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
> responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
> line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
> claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
> situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
> the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
> dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
> other stuff that is located there.

Bikes do have the same rights and responsibilities as cars
as far as obeying traffic signs and signals, yielding the
right-of-way, etc. However, positioning in the lane is
almost always (*always*, IME) specified differently for
bikes than for _motor_ vehicles. The most common rules
essentially say that you should ride as far to the right as
is practical. What is "practical" is up to your judgement,
and will vary with traffic, road and weather conditions, and
may at times require you to take the center of the lane.

--
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the newsgroups if possible).

 

[BanditManDan]

Originally posted by Mary
In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
other stuff that is located there.

Thanks

Tom

Most (if not all) state laws consider bicycles vehicles and are required to obey the normal traffic laws/rules when riding on the road. I don't think it's illegal to ride on the shoulder unless it's marked as an emergency lane but most emergency lanes are only on interstate highways and you probably arn't allowed to ride a bicycle there anyway.

Dan.

 

[Frank Krygowski]

mary (or maybe Tom) wrote:

> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
> the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
> Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
> responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
> line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
> claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
> situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
> the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
> dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
> other stuff that is located there.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom

In general, the white line has little or no bearing on where
I choose to ride. That's true if it's a fog line, or if it's
a bike lane stripe.

I choose my road position based on how wide the useable
pavement is. A surface with gravel, potholes & trash isn't
useable. Getting too close to a pavement edge isn't good,
either. White line or no white line, I won't ride where it's
too risky. And of course, if there's not enough room for a
car to safely pass, I'll take the lane.

I live just over the state line in Ohio, and I ride in
Pennsylvania a lot. I've never had any trouble with this
issue. So don't worry. Just ride where it's safe.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

 

[Matt O'Toole]

mary wrote:

> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
> the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
> Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
> responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
> line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
> claim I was riding illegally.

Someone else being charged or blamed for an accident depends
on whether *they* were doing something illlegal, not you.

This is a common misconception about law. People seem to
think that any mistake they make invalidates any other claim
they might have, like in children's games. This is simply
not true. The law is more sophisticated than that.

In your case, riding a bicycle or driving a car to the right
of the fog line is probably not illegal. What *is* illegal
is not passing safely, or not maintaining a safe following
distance. So if someone hits you from behind, they're almost
always 100% at fault, unless it can be proven you were
riding erratically.

> I was wondering what the situation is. I live in
> Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling the rules differ from
> state to state. Sometimes it is dangerous to ride on the
> side because of all the junk and other stuff that is
> located there.

This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left
of the fog line, but "as far to the right as practicable"
(as VA law says, and probably PA law too). It is the
responisbility of other vehicles to pass safely.

Matt O.

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

mary <[email protected]> wrote:
>In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
>the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
>Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
>responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
>line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
>claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
>situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
>the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
>dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
>other stuff that is located there.

In California everything to the right of the white line on
the right side of the road is the "shoulder" (unless it is
called a "bicycle lane" or something else on a sign).
Vehicles may not in general travel on the shoulder, but an
exception is written into the law for bicycles which may (or
may not at, their option) use it.

Assuming the definitions are the same I think the situation
is identical in Pennsylvania. Take a look at

http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/palaw.htm

in section 3505 for the exception.

Dennis Ferguson

 

[Michael Press]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the left
>of the fog line, but "as far to the right as practicable"
>(as VA law says, and probably PA law too). It is the
>responisbility of other vehicles to pass safely.

What's a fog line?

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the
> >left of the fog line, but "as far to the right as
> >practicable" (as VA law says, and probably PA law too).
> >It is the responisbility of other vehicles to pass
> >safely.
>
> What's a fog line?

The line along the right (or left in countries which drive
on the left) edge of the outside lane, which separates the
driving lane from the shoulder.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Michael Press wrote:

> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> This is why you should ride in the lane proper, to the
>> left of the fog line, but "as far to the right as
>> practicable" (as VA law says, and probably PA law too).
>> It is the responisbility of other vehicles to pass
>> safely.
>
> What's a fog line?

That's the common technical term for the white line along
the side of the road. Its purpose is to make the edge of the
road more visible in fog, and/or at night.

Matt O.

 

[Fritz M]

"mary" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
> responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
> line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
> claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
> situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
> the rules differ from state to state.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/bikelaws.htm has a
summary of Pennsylvania law that pertains to cyclists.
Cyclists are permitted but not always required to ride to
the right of the line. Where bicycle traffic is permitted on
freeways, cyclists are required to ride in the shoulder.

Colorodo (where I live) law states that cyclists must ride
in the paved shoulder if one is provided, with the usual
provisos about overtaking traffic, obstructions, etc.

RFM

 

[Claire Petersky]

There's a couple places where I ride -- one within a quarter
mile of my house -- where the fog line is crumbling and
vegetation is growing on it. In the case of the road near my
house, the vegetation is several feet tall and hangs over
into the street. You can believe no one rides or drives to
the right of the fog line for that stretch!

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm See the
books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Joe Faust]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:59:32 -0400, "mary" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
>the right of the white line on the berm of the road.
>Somewhere I read that since bikers have the same
>responsibilities as cars that to ride to the right of the
>line is breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could
>claim I was riding illegally. I was wondering what the
>situation is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling
>the rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it is
>dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
>other stuff that is located there.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom

I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of
the white line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has
right-hooked me and turned into a shopping mall
immediately ahead of me.

Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was
midday, moving about 12mph, and the woman driver to my left
passed me and immediately made a right into the mall. I
braked hard, she apparently didn't even see me and continued
on her way.

A similar incident many months ago at another mall entrance
in another town makes me think that it is much better in
town areas to just take the road to the right of the white
line and make sure that traffic is aware of your presence.
By the way, last week I had a tail flasher running during
that broad daylight near miss.

 

[Curt]

"Joe Faust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:59:32 -0400, "mary" <tombates@city-
> net.com> wrote:
>
> >In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
> >the right of
the
> >white line on the berm of the road. Somewhere I read that
> >since bikers
have
> >the same responsibilities as cars that to ride to the
> >right of the line
is
> >breaking the law. If someone hit me, they could claim I
> >was riding illegally. I was wondering what the situation
> >is. I live in Pennsylvania, and I have a feeling the
> >rules differ from state to state. Sometimes it
is
> >dangerous to ride on the side because of all the junk and
> >other stuff
that
> >is located there.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Tom
>
> I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of
> the white line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has
> right-hooked me and turned into a shopping mall
> immediately ahead of me.
>
> Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was
> midday, moving about 12mph, and the woman driver to my
> left passed me and immediately made a right into the mall.
> I braked hard, she apparently didn't even see me and
> continued on her way.

I doubt she didn't see you. I find many women are very
aggressive drivers and she just didn't want to wait two
seconds for you to get past the entrance. She was most
likely driving an SUV.

Curt

 

[Pbwalther]

>I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of
>the white line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has
>right-hooked me and turned into a shopping mall
>immediately ahead of me.
>

I find that riding very far to the right seems to be an
invitation for every motorist in creation to right hook me.
Well, I am using a bit of hyperbole.

I think if one is pretty far to the right, you become
irrelevant to the motorist as they pass you. Once they have
passed you, they seem to forget about your existance and
they feel free to slow way down and make a right turn.

I find that in situations where motorists are very likely to
make right turns and if my speed is fairly high, I will move
farther from the shoulder. If the motorist has to manuever
around me, it makes it a little harder for them to right
hook me and it makes it more likely for them to just slow
down and turn right.

Riding in a paved would really "encourage" right hooks.

Of course, even when the traffic is not moving fast, if I
take a lane and I am moving at the speed of the traffic, it
does send some motorists right round the bend into near
apoplecty. Sometimes I wonder if turning the ignition key
halves the intelligence or something.

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

Joe Faust <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am going to have to rethink my riding to the right of
>the white line. Twice, within the past year, a driver has
>right-hooked me and turned into a shopping mall
>immediately ahead of me.
>
>Last week, I was wearing a bright yellow jersey, it was
>midday, moving about 12mph, and the woman driver to my left
>passed me and immediately made a right into the mall. I
>braked hard, she apparently didn't even see me and
>continued on her way.
>
>A similar incident many months ago at another mall entrance
>in another town makes me think that it is much better in
>town areas to just take the road to the right of the white
>line and make sure that traffic is aware of your presence.
>By the way, last week I had a tail flasher running during
>that broad daylight near miss.

I've found that the general difference between riding on the
right and further out in the lane is that, in the former
case, the close calls with drivers more often occur in front
of you, where you see them and get scared, while in the
latter case the close calls with drivers more often occur
behind you, where you are more likely to be blissfully
unaware of them unless they actually get you.

There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways
depending on where I am, but generally will keep right if
there is space over there, letting the cars go by unimpeded
but treating intersections and driveways with a considerable
degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as much stuff as
possible occur in front of me, where I might have some
control over my fate, rather than behind me, where I'm
entirely dependent on the drivers to not kill me.

And, to tell the truth, if you ride frequently but you've
only had this happen twice in a year you aren't so doing
badly. This happens to me more often than that, even though
I live in the SF Bay area where I generally find the
drivers to be more careful about cyclists than the other
places I've lived.

Dennis Ferguson

 

[Mortdubois]

"mary" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In the area where I live it is sometimes safer to ride to
> the right of the white line on the berm of the road.<

In eastern Pennsylvania, especially in Lancaster country,
the roads are often made with especially wide shoulders so
that the Amish can ride their buggies and bikes on the
shoulder. I doubt that it is illegal to ride a bike to the
right of the line. In my experience, if I am on a road with
a wide and clean shoulder I will ride on or to the right of
the line - especially on high speed 2 lane roads. Around
here, drivers who see that you are doing your best to stay
right, and don't have to make drastic manouvers to pass you,
are happy drivers. Once I get into a town, where traffic is
slower, I get farther out into the lane to avoid the right
hook and the opening door. Also, I make an attempt to keep
my speed up close to that of the traffic, clearly signal
where I am going, stop at stop signs and lights, and give a
thank you wave to any driver who is even slightly courteous.
If I am riding out in the lane to avoid debris, and a car is
stuck behind me, I point at the debris so that the car has
some understanding of WHY I am out there - this also helps
keeps things friendly. You always have to be on the lookout
for that right hook, though, and be aware of any situation
where turning traffic can bean you.

Paul

 

[Frank Krygowski]

Dennis Ferguson wrote:

>
> I've found that the general difference between riding on
> the right and further out in the lane is that, in the
> former case, the close calls with drivers more often occur
> in front of you, where you see them and get scared, while
> in the latter case the close calls with drivers more often
> occur behind you, where you are more likely to be
> blissfully unaware of them unless they actually get you.

That's not my experience. Riding further left generally gets
me _more_ clearance from passing cars.

True story, related to me by a guy who took an Effective
Cycling class from me:

He and his wife were on vacation, riding their tandem on an
unfamiliar and somewhat busy highway. The road was narrow,
and there was very little shoulder.

He had been riding as close as he could to the right, and
cars were continually scaring them by squeezing by too
close. He said to his wife "You know, Frank said that if
you go further left and take the lane, the cars will pass
with more clearance." She agreed that they should try it,
so they did.

He said it transformed the ride. Sometimes cars did have to
wait to pass, due to oncoming traffic. There was no rude
reaction to this. And in every case, when a car passed,
there was at _least_ 4 feet of clearance.

Almost all drivers, when they have to partially enter the
left lane to pass, will enter it pretty thoroughly. They'll
get _way_ over. You'll get _more_ passing clearance.

>
> There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways
> depending on where I am, but generally will keep right if
> there is space over there, letting the cars go by
> unimpeded but treating intersections and driveways with a
> considerable degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as much
> stuff as possible occur in front of me, where I might have
> some control over my fate, rather than behind me, where
> I'm entirely dependent on the drivers to not kill me.

Strictly speaking you're _always_ dependent on drivers not
to kill you. But they won't kill you. They hate the
paperwork.

It's true you have to use some judgement. I use a rear view
mirror to help with that judgement. But don't be afraid of
taking your right to the road.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

 

[Bernie]

Frank Krygowski wrote:

> Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>
>>
>> I've found that the general difference between riding on
>> the right and further out in the lane is that, in the
>> former case, the close calls with drivers more often
>> occur in front of you, where you see them and get
>> scared, while in the latter case the close calls with
>> drivers more often occur behind you, where you are more
>> likely to be blissfully unaware of them unless they
>> actually get you.
>
>
> That's not my experience. Riding further left generally
> gets me _more_ clearance from passing cars.
>
> True story, related to me by a guy who took an Effective
> Cycling class from me:
>
> He and his wife were on vacation, riding their tandem on
> an unfamiliar and somewhat busy highway. The road was
> narrow, and there was very little shoulder.
>
> He had been riding as close as he could to the right, and
> cars were continually scaring them by squeezing by too
> close. He said to his wife "You know, Frank said that if
> you go further left and take the lane, the cars will pass
> with more clearance." She agreed that they should try it,
> so they did.
>
> He said it transformed the ride. Sometimes cars did have
> to wait to pass, due to oncoming traffic. There was no
> rude reaction to this. And in every case, when a car
> passed, there was at _least_ 4 feet of clearance.
>
> Almost all drivers, when they have to partially enter the
> left lane to pass, will enter it pretty thoroughly.
> They'll get _way_ over. You'll get _more_ passing
> clearance.
>
>>
>> There's no good solution, I think. I do it both ways
>> depending on where I am, but generally will keep right
>> if there is space over there, letting the cars go by
>> unimpeded but treating intersections and driveways with
>> a considerable degree of paranoia. I'd rather have as
>> much stuff as possible occur in front of me, where I
>> might have some control over my fate, rather than behind
>> me, where I'm entirely dependent on the drivers to not
>> kill me.
>
>
> Strictly speaking you're _always_ dependent on drivers not
> to kill you. But they won't kill you. They hate the
> paperwork.
>
> It's true you have to use some judgement. I use a rear
> view mirror to help with that judgement. But don't be
> afraid of taking your right to the road.
>
I agree. When I get careless, or nervous, and ride too far
to the right, the semis pass without moving over at all.
Leaves zero room for error and most legitimately scares the
**** out of me.

If in doubt or uncomfortable with drivers' behaviour,
ride wider. Motorists will do a better, safer job of
passing. Bernie

 

[Pat]

> That's not my experience. Riding further left generally
> gets me _more_ clearance from passing cars. --------------------
> + Frank Krygowski [

I have noticed from our club rides that when we hug the
right edge of the road it tempts car drivers to pass us
without leaving the lane. That's scary, and I don't intend
to ride that way any more!

Pat in TX

 

[Roger Zoul]

Pat wrote:
::: That's not my experience. Riding further left generally
::: gets me _more_ clearance from passing cars. --------------------
::: + Frank Krygowski [
::
:: I have noticed from our club rides that when we hug the
:: right edge of the road it tempts car drivers to pass us
:: without leaving the lane. That's scary, and I don't
:: intend to ride that way any more!
::
:: Pat in TX

I've noticed the same thing...