Riding up Oliver's Hill to be barred

[beerwolf]

"OppyLock" <[email protected]> wrote:

snip ...

> I see elsewhere that a part of cyclists concerns is the speed humps on
> Hopes Rise.
> At the speed I go up there under my own power, speed humps aren't an
> issue.

I have never ridden in that area. However, speaking as a not particularly
fast cyclist, I find speed bumps a right royal pain in the **** when riding
up a steepish hill. You get a nice rhythm going, then the gradient changes
momentarily and upsets it. Always costs me 1 or 2 kph if I'm not awake up
to it. As the situation is described, I'd choose Olivers Hill (admittedly
without having seen it).
Better start agitating people, or it will be Hopes Dashed.

--
beerwolf
(To reply by email, remove numbers from my address)

 

[Aeek]

On 20 Mar 2007 02:17:56 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:

>Just have to find one that has good vents but does't have a wedge out
>the back, as the vestigal wedge on my Giro hangs up a bit on the
>headrest sometimes.

Catlike have flat bumpy backs, carried by Orbea dealers (Spanish).
The highend aren't cheap, don't know about their reasonable helmets.

 

[Paul Yates]

The current sign is not enforceable by the police. It is classifed as a
council sign and as such a by laws officer can jump up and down at you, but
that's about it. It's the same deal as the HWY between Caufield and
Glenferrie Road.

 

[Bleve]

On Mar 20, 2:55 pm, "OppyLock" <[email protected]> wrote:

[chomp]

> * Turns into a dedicated bike lane at the top of the hill without
> needing to do a head check.

That gets you killed.

 

[Aeek]

On 20 Mar 2007 05:07:11 -0700, "Bleve" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Mar 20, 2:55 pm, "OppyLock" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [chomp]
>
>> * Turns into a dedicated bike lane at the top of the hill without
>> needing to do a head check.
>
>That gets you killed.
>

or at least pisses of the cyclist who is heading straight for it.
Not just cars on the road, you know?

 

[rooman]

>> SNIP

..................
What if the planter boxes on the left of the speed humps were removed and a
bike lane put in their place?
The cars are still slowed ascending the residential, Hopes Rise. Cyclists
have a dedicated path to take. Win/Win?

.

sorry to disagree....dedicated bike paths on Hopes Rise is a nadda!

I will let this quote from bycyclingadvocacy AT yahoogroups.com cover it :-

Bikelanes provide no safety improvement. No study has ever shown
such a thing. The implication of good study data and some
straight forward logic aguments is that it is unlikely
bikelanes could ever improve safety stats. The data,
some straightforward logic arguments and lessons learned
over 100+ years of vehicle facility design indicate why
poor design ideas like bikelanes are esepcially inadvisible...


Bikelanes provide lots of mis-education about
proper roadway bicycling.

 

[OppyLock]

> OppyLock Wrote:
>> I must be missing something ... but I can't see the attraction of taking
>> the path frequented by 50 unpredictable rhino's, just because you can.
>> Granted it's your right though. I'm not arguing with you about cyclist
>> rights. I'm not arguing with you about the need for a law either.
>
> If you are in a large, fast, group neither hopes rise or the bike path
> at the top is wide enough. This means the bunch must merge back into
> the left hand car lane, which as mentioned before is statistically
> unsafe. Also if you are riding in such a bunch you are very unlikely to
> be planning on stopping to either admire the view or take a breather.
>
> For 90% of cyclists that use that route, hopes rise is the better
> option. For those that ride it in large fast groups however, it is
> neither safer nor more enjoyable.
>
>
> --
> SomeGuy

Yep .. .I agree with all that. No issue whatsoever with a group ascending
the hill and using the whole lane.
The larger the group the better. It's the single cyclists or group
stragglers that I see as being in an unsafe position doing the climb.

 

[OppyLock]

"TimC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2007-03-20, OppyLock (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> The needs of the many (drivers in their thousands each day) outweighing
>> the
>> needs of the few (cyclists in their hundreds (optimistically)).
>> Especially when the cyclists have a viable alternative in Hopes Rise.
>
> Um. /Actually/. We are talking nominally about Saturday morning
> here. Try moving one of the zeros between the two sets there.

Ahhh yeah ... different concerns at play here I see.
I'm not considering the regular bunch to be in any (more) danger whatsoever
when compared with the rest of the journey. Any bunch going up the hill is
going to be much more visible than a single cyclist and there will likely be
a few stragglers that give a bit of warning, to alert drivers at least.
It's only the single social cyclist that I've concerns over. May not know
the area too well, heard the hill was a challenge and hits it unprepared.
....
Group rides or races should definately use the hill as they do currently.

>> * Turns into a dedicated bike lane at the top of the hill without
>> needing to do a head check.
>
> I don't recall that part (not having been there for 9 months). I
> recall doing a head check because you can never ensure there is no car
> just meandering about out of their lane (geez, I went up and down
> Dorrigo Mountain a few times last week -- don't those turns bring out
> the incompetance in drivers? Counted 3 seperate cars driven by old
> people in hats who completely overshot left hand bends while doing
> 10km/h, ending up on the wrong side of the road with approaching
> traffic), and 2, and more importantly, that there are no bike users in
> that lane.

Actually it's a risky proposition from either climb. From Hopes Rise you
can't see immenently turning traffic from Olivers Hill and vice-versa you
can't see merging traffic from Hopes Rise. Hopes Rise traffic must STOP
though at the top. I'd still put Hopes Rise slightly ahead on points as
you'd be at the left of the lane when rejoining Nepean Hwy, whereas if you
climbed Olivers Hill you're in the middle of two lanes with a need to get
over to the left fairly quickly.

 

[warrwych]

sorry to disagree....dedicated bike paths on Hopes Rise is a nadda!

I will let this quote from bycyclingadvocacy AT yahoogroups.com cover it :-

Bikelanes provide no safety improvement. No study has ever shown
such a thing. The implication of good study data and some
straight forward logic aguments is that it is unlikely
bikelanes could ever improve safety stats. The data,
some straightforward logic arguments and lessons learned
over 100+ years of vehicle facility design indicate why
poor design ideas like bikelanes are esepcially inadvisible...


Bikelanes provide lots of mis-education about
proper roadway bicycling.

bike lane??? what bike lane? I think it's great the council have finally designated car parking lanes - sweet!

 

[OppyLock]

"rooman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> OppyLock Wrote:
>> >> SNIP
>>
>> ..................
>> What if the planter boxes on the left of the speed humps were removed
>> and a
>> bike lane put in their place?
>> The cars are still slowed ascending the residential, Hopes Rise.
>> Cyclists
>> have a dedicated path to take. Win/Win?
>>
>> .
> sorry to disagree....dedicated bike paths on Hopes Rise is a nadda!
>
> I will let this quote from bycyclingadvocacy AT yahoogroups.com cover
> it :-
>
> -Bikelanes provide no safety improvement. No study has ever shown
> such a thing. The implication of good study data and some
> straight forward logic aguments is that it is unlikely
> bikelanes could ever improve safety stats. The data,
> some straightforward logic arguments and lessons learned
> over 100+ years of vehicle facility design indicate why
> poor design ideas like bikelanes are esepcially inadvisible...
>
>
> Bikelanes provide lots of mis-education about
> proper roadway bicycling.-
>

Dubious safety record aside ... I was just hoping to get rid of the speed
humps.

 

[TimC]

On 2007-03-22, OppyLock (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> "TimC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2007-03-20, OppyLock (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>> The needs of the many (drivers in their thousands each day) outweighing
>>> the
>>> needs of the few (cyclists in their hundreds (optimistically)).
>>> Especially when the cyclists have a viable alternative in Hopes Rise.
>>
>> Um. /Actually/. We are talking nominally about Saturday morning
>> here. Try moving one of the zeros between the two sets there.
>
> Ahhh yeah ... different concerns at play here I see.
> I'm not considering the regular bunch to be in any (more) danger whatsoever
> when compared with the rest of the journey. Any bunch going up the hill is
> going to be much more visible than a single cyclist and there will likely be
> a few stragglers that give a bit of warning

I like to think of it as "a few stragglers that will be hit first,
alerting the driver to the possibility of more riders up ahead"

I thank one or two particular riders last BR(x) I did for performing
that useful service up steep hill number x

> Actually it's a risky proposition from either climb. From Hopes Rise you
> can't see immenently turning traffic from Olivers Hill and vice-versa you
> can't see merging traffic from Hopes Rise. Hopes Rise traffic must STOP
> though at the top. I'd still put Hopes Rise slightly ahead on points as
> you'd be at the left of the lane when rejoining Nepean Hwy, whereas if you
> climbed Olivers Hill you're in the middle of two lanes with a need to get
> over to the left fairly quickly.

No more difficult for the Olivers Hill rider than any other
intersection with an obtuse angle intersection. And Hopes Rise has
hardly any car traffic on it -- I've never had trouble crossing back
into the left lane in the (admittedly very few) occasions I tried it.

--
TimC
If I had encountered Bill Gates today, I would have shaken his hand,
said "hello", and stopped kicking as soon as there was nothing left
but a bloody stain on the floor. -- Shag