Riding with courage



"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Pat Tillman was a murderer, a blinkered toady, a sociopath, a moral
> imbecile, a fiduciary fool, a juvenile delinquent, and a *pendejo* of
> the first water. When he was fragged by his fellow stormtrooper
> thugs, he just got what each and every single one of them deserve.
>
> What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
> who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
> beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
> courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
> opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.
>
> Chalo Colina


You are a ****ing piece of ****.

Dave
 
S o r n i wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| Tom Keats wrote:
||
||||| On re-watching today's stage, the bit about 'courage' was
||||| attributed to Laurent Fignon, talking about Voeckler's hanging
||||| back on the ascents and staying out of the red zone, then using
||||| his 'courage'
||||| to get over the hump and down the other side. In which case,
||||| coming up from behind and cutting through the thick of the pack
||||| to return toward the front might be pretty courageous.
|||
||| Funny....I watched it and I didn't find it an example of courage.
||| It would have more courageous for him to stay toward the front or
||| even
||| try to win.
||
|| Well, the guy showed incredible perseverence, guts, whatever you
|| want to call it, not to have just given up after being dropped on
|| climb after climb (and we're talking CLIMBS). So indeed it MAY have
|| taken "courage" (not to mention skill and daring) to fly down the
|| descents, through traffic no doubt, fast enough to stay in the race.
||
|| By finishing within 5:04 of L.A., he *did* "try to win".
||
|| Bill "hat's off to the man" S.

Hey, don't misunderstand....I'm not taking anything from him...I think he
did an outstanding thing...I'm just saying (if you read my other comments)
that I don't think it is 'courage' that was displayed, but something else,
like incredible perserverence, guts, etc. I personally wouldn't call it
courage. As for flying down those hills....well, if it had been ME doing it,
that would have been a fine example of courage (and stupidity) because I
don't have those skills.
 
psycholist wrote:
|| "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|| news:[email protected]...
||| When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
||| get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
|||
||| I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
||| should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
||| takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
||| your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared
||| consensus
||| of what that means in the biking lexicon.
|||
||| -B
|||
||
|| I've read all the replies you've gotten so far and I don't think
|| they picked up on what you were really asking.
||
|| I recall a century I was on several years ago. I was with five guys
|| and we were off the front going at a pace I'd never gone before. I
|| kept thinking to myself, "I can't keep this up for five hours." It
|| kept running through my mind that I should sit up and wait for a
|| group to come along that was going more "my pace." But then I'd
|| resist that thought and just fight to take my pulls. Soon I was
|| realizing how and when to get a little recovery and that I COULD
|| keep that pace. And it turned out I didn't need to keep it for 5
|| hours 'cuz we finishing 102 miles in 4:34. That was an enormous
|| breakthrough ride for me.
||
|| I wouldn't call it "courage." But I'd say I plumbed the depths of
|| my mental and physical strengths and learned something new about my
|| limits.
||
|| Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I
|| think it takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits.

Put that way, I can see what they (the commentators) possibly meant. Maybe
it's one of those things where you have to had been in that situation to
fully appreciate it.

This would be a good question for the "Ask Bob" segment on one of those
other race shows.

||
|| One other thing I learned on that ride that's stuck with me ever
|| since ... about the time you think you're just gonna die, know that
|| everyone else is probably feeling the same way. Before I realized
|| that, there were a number of times that I'd sit up and watch the
|| lead group ride away, only to see them just linger tantalizingly
|| close in the distance. They'd obviously backed off a notch. But I
|| was too cooked to close. I learned that, if I could go just a few
|| clicks farther into the red zone, I'd be with them when they backed
|| off a notch ... and with them again when they put the hammer back
|| down. A few extra hard seconds trying to hang on with faster riders
|| can, in the longer run, save you from having to do a long individual
|| time trial.

Even though I've heard it said over and over, I still have a hard time
believing that drafting really saves energy. I can understand it
intellectually, but without having experienced it first hand I have
difficulty accepting it.
 
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:35:28 -0400, "psycholist" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I recall a century I was on several years ago. I was with five guys and we
>were off the front going at a pace I'd never gone before. I kept thinking
>to myself, "I can't keep this up for five hours." It kept running through
>my mind that I should sit up and wait for a group to come along that was
>going more "my pace." But then I'd resist that thought and just fight to
>take my pulls. Soon I was realizing how and when to get a little recovery
>and that I COULD keep that pace. And it turned out I didn't need to keep it
>for 5 hours 'cuz we finishing 102 miles in 4:34. That was an enormous
>breakthrough ride for me.
>
>I wouldn't call it "courage." But I'd say I plumbed the depths of my mental
>and physical strengths and learned something new about my limits.
>
>Having said that, maybe there is an element of courage in that. I think it
>takes a bit of courage for a person to test their limits.


Wow, great description and it appears you've nailed the concept.

I'm saving _that_ reply! ;-)

-B
 
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:35:28 -0400, "psycholist" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I wouldn't call it "courage." But I'd say I plumbed the depths of my mental
>and physical strengths and learned something new about my limits.


At least a difference in magnitude. When you are dropped in a race,
results matter and they aren't waiting for you up the road. You get
dropped because you are already hurting (or didn't have enough snap to
catch a wheel) and you are scrambling to catch on the back knowing
that it will probably happen all over again. And again.

At least he didn't have to watch the team car go up the road to
support the team leader like Ullrich did on occasion in stage 12. Must
be a kick in the pants when that car has been 'yours' every stage for
the last few years.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Luigi de Guzman" <[email protected] wrote:
> I can't help but think maybe there's a linguistic angle here, that
> there's a shade of meaning for "courage" in French that might cover
> precisely what you're on about.
>
> Can any Francophones out there comment?
>
> -Luigi


You got it! When riding the Paris-Brest-Paris event last august the locals
were *encouraging* us riders yelling: "Bon courage" - meaning: good spirit.
Of course this is linquistically/ethymethologically related to the english
word for *Bravery*, but in modern French it has a wider meaning.
A good guess is that the commentator is influenced by the French use of the
word - thus not describing Voeller is taking chances/putting himself at
risk, but showing good spirit, which he certainly did.

- Ivar
 
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:22:05 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:

> Even though I've heard it said over and over, I still have a hard time
> believing that drafting really saves energy. I can understand it
> intellectually, but without having experienced it first hand I have
> difficulty accepting it.


You vill learn to accept it and like it! ;-)

If you ever get a chance to get into a slow pace line give it a
try. Take a look at your speed and you'll notice a a higher speed
with little effort. When it's your turn at the front you'll notice the
greater effort. I shift down one gear on windy days when it's my turn
at the front to keep the pace even. Afterwards you'll be amazed,
especially on a well oiled pace line, you'll fly and then you'll beleive!

One rule you must obey, NEVER overlap the wheel of the rider in front
of you! Also let the person behind you know that this is your first
time. It should be obvious if you 'surge' and brake while in the pace
line. That's something I'm still learning to deal with. That and
figuring out how long is long enough on the front.

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email protected]
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
 
>When the TdF commentators say the yellow jersey "used his courage to
>get back up to the back of the pack" does that have meaning to you?
>


I don't think it means much. I fooled around with a heart rate monitor a few
years back. I had always thought that when I got dropped, it was because I had
"given up". I soon discovered with the heart rate monitor that when I was even
toying with the notion of getting dropped, my heart rate was in the red zone.
The thing was, I wasn't giving up as much as my body was giving out. One good
jump and I was history. Of course, sometimes the jumpers are history too
because they are toasting themselves also. But that is knowing your
competition and has nothing to do with "courage".

Also, I have learned over the years that if I am the strong guy in the group, I
can drop the other guys if I find a few nice hills and there is nothing they
can do about. They can try to hang on but I am going to get them. It is all
heart & lungs & legs. If they don't have the equipment, all courage will do is
make them hurt themselves more before they get dropped. Oddly enough, people
who hurt themselves badly before getting dropped tend to be easier to drop the
next time.

Now, no one should get the notion from the above that I am a great cyclist.
There are just times when I am the strong guy in the group and I know who is
stronger then I am and who is weaker.

For example, Jan Ulrich just could not respond to what Armstrong and Basso had
these past few days. Does any of us think that Ulrich is a quiter or does not
know how to ride? Tyler Hamilton dropped out with back pains. Does anyone
here think that Hamilton does not know how to ride with pain? The thing is
that sometimes the other guy just has more then you do.
 
"S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
> > who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
> > beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
> > courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the

>
> My bet is you'd **** your pants if he stood in front of you and twitched an
> eye.


I'm twice his former size. He would have been unable to bully me, so
he probably would have had no idea what to do with himself. (This
based on the fact that he was not only a professional goon, but did
time in juvenile jail for bullying others as well.) I believe he
might be alive today if not for a serious small-man complex driving
him to compete in the Macho Olympics decathlon.

What an unlikely "hero" for the Rightist radio flecks-of-spit brigade
to latch onto!

He was no more reprehensible than the illegitimate president who sent
him to his just desserts, though. Just dumber (which hardly seems
possible).

Chalo Colina
 
"Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Tillman and the other lowly goons
> > who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
> > beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
> > courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather the
> > opposite. Like all bullies, they are essentially cowards.

>
> You are a ****ing piece of ****.


Come on Davie-poo, use your words! I know you're not insightful or
articulate, but you can try harder. Even little Patsy Tillman, who
was too dumb to live to maturity, probably could have made a better
show than that!

Chalo Colina
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Ivar Hesselager" <[email protected]> writes:

> You got it! When riding the Paris-Brest-Paris event last august the locals
> were *encouraging* us riders yelling: "Bon courage" - meaning: good spirit.
> Of course this is linquistically/ethymethologically related to the english
> word for *Bravery*, but in modern French it has a wider meaning.
> A good guess is that the commentator is influenced by the French use of the
> word - thus not describing Voeller is taking chances/putting himself at
> risk, but showing good spirit, which he certainly did.


That makes sense to me. I took it in the context of Voekler playing
a gambit by giving up some lead to conserve his resources so he could,
with some risk of failure, pull his time back later when it would be
more opportune.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
Chalo wrote:
> "S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> What he was _not_ was courageous. Tillman and the other lowly goons
>>> who work on behalf of the American aggressor regime to murder and
>>> beleaguer the pitiful, poor, desperately outgunned, but fiercely
>>> courageous partisans of an occupied land are not brave, but rather
>>> the

>>
>> My bet is you'd **** your pants if he stood in front of you and
>> twitched an eye.

>
> I'm twice his former size. He would have been unable to bully me, so
> he probably would have had no idea what to do with himself. (This
> based on the fact that he was not only a professional goon, but did
> time in juvenile jail for bullying others as well.) I believe he
> might be alive today if not for a serious small-man complex driving
> him to compete in the Macho Olympics decathlon.


Hmmm. Who comes across as a bully in this exchange? Talk is cheap, Chalo,
and so apparently are you.

> What an unlikely "hero" for the Rightist radio flecks-of-spit brigade
> to latch onto!


Most people I've heard or read were just amazed that someone would give up
multi-millions of dollars to go fight for their country. Why don't you quit
your job cleaning Slurpy machines and go into full-time protesting? (Or do
you only TALK big?)

> He was no more reprehensible than the illegitimate president who sent
> him to his just desserts, though. Just dumber (which hardly seems
> possible).


He's flying on Air Force One; you're driving an old lime-green Maverick.
Scoreboard.

Bill "must be awful to be filled with so much hatred...but you're still an
asshole" S.
 
"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Come on Davie-poo, use your words! I know you're not insightful or
> articulate, but you can try harder. Even little Patsy Tillman, who
> was too dumb to live to maturity, probably could have made a better
> show than that!


OK, I'll try harder. How about miserable, worthless, disgusting, hateful,
gutless, cowardly, morbidly obese, ****ing piece of ****.

Dave
 
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:35:28 -0400, "psycholist"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>for 5 hours 'cuz we finishing 102 miles in 4:34. That was an enormous


Wow.
--
Rick Onanian
 
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:09:43 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm beginning to sense a developing ability to continue even when I
>should be dropping, and that seems a little bit 'mental' ability. It
>takes courage to ride into the place that you think might be 'beyond
>your ability', but wondering if there is some kind of shared consensus
>of what that means in the biking lexicon.


I've never needed courage to ride too hard. Instead, it's taken
courage to drop the "I gotta go fast" attitude in order to pace
myself better. Once I stopped being afraid of going slow, my average
speed went up, as well as my distance. Most importantly, my fun
increased by a whole lot.
--
Rick Onanian
 
"Neil Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:22:05 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> > Even though I've heard it said over and over, I still have a hard time
> > believing that drafting really saves energy. I can understand it
> > intellectually, but without having experienced it first hand I have
> > difficulty accepting it.

>
> You vill learn to accept it and like it! ;-)
>
> If you ever get a chance to get into a slow pace line give it a
> try. Take a look at your speed and you'll notice a a higher speed
> with little effort. When it's your turn at the front you'll notice the
> greater effort. I shift down one gear on windy days when it's my turn
> at the front to keep the pace even. Afterwards you'll be amazed,
> especially on a well oiled pace line, you'll fly and then you'll beleive!
>
> One rule you must obey, NEVER overlap the wheel of the rider in front
> of you! Also let the person behind you know that this is your first
> time. It should be obvious if you 'surge' and brake while in the pace
> line. That's something I'm still learning to deal with. That and
> figuring out how long is long enough on the front.
>
> --
> Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry


I think the most important rule that newbies break. When you take your turn
at the front and you're done, pull out of the line, THEN slow down. Don't
do it the other way around. Most newbies cook themselves on the front then
just sit up, causing mayhem in the line behind them. Pull out of the line,
then slow down and drift to the back.

Bob C.
 
"Neil Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 06:22:05 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> > Even though I've heard it said over and over, I still have a hard time
> > believing that drafting really saves energy. I can understand it
> > intellectually, but without having experienced it first hand I have
> > difficulty accepting it.

>
> You vill learn to accept it and like it! ;-)
>
> If you ever get a chance to get into a slow pace line give it a
> try. Take a look at your speed and you'll notice a a higher speed
> with little effort. When it's your turn at the front you'll notice the
> greater effort. I shift down one gear on windy days when it's my turn
> at the front to keep the pace even. Afterwards you'll be amazed,
> especially on a well oiled pace line, you'll fly and then you'll beleive!
>
> One rule you must obey, NEVER overlap the wheel of the rider in front
> of you! Also let the person behind you know that this is your first
> time. It should be obvious if you 'surge' and brake while in the pace
> line. That's something I'm still learning to deal with. That and
> figuring out how long is long enough on the front.
>
> --
> Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry


I think the most important rule that newbies break. When you take your turn
at the front and you're done, pull out of the line, THEN slow down. Don't
do it the other way around. Most newbies cook themselves on the front then
just sit up, causing mayhem in the line behind them. Pull out of the line,
then slow down and drift to the back.

Bob C.
 

> > One rule you must obey, NEVER overlap the wheel of the rider in front
> > of you! Also let the person behind you know that this is your first
> > time. It should be obvious if you 'surge' and brake while in the pace
> > line. That's something I'm still learning to deal with. That and
> > figuring out how long is long enough on the front.
> >
> > --
> > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry

>
> I think the most important rule that newbies break. When you take your

turn
> at the front and you're done, pull out of the line, THEN slow down. Don't
> do it the other way around. Most newbies cook themselves on the front

then
> just sit up, causing mayhem in the line behind them. Pull out of the

line,
> then slow down and drift to the back.
>
> Bob C.
>

And before you pull out of the line, shouldn't you indicate your intentions
in some way? What is the usual way to do that?
 
Alfred Ryder wrote:

> And before you pull out of the line, shouldn't you indicate your intentions
> in some way? What is the usual way to do that?


A wiggle of the elbow is the most common sign, directing the
following rider to pull through on that side.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
>I can't help but think maybe there's a linguistic angle here, that
>there's a shade of meaning for "courage" in French that might cover
>precisely what you're on about.
>
>Can any Francophones out there comment?
>
>-Luigi
>


Doing the Ranndonee du Centennaire last summer, cycling around Paris in a large
bunch of blokes, this middle-aged fatbirdonabike was well chuffed when a lady
gendarme called out to me "Courage madame! Courage!" The literal meaning is
courage, but I think the context was more of a "You go girl!" sort of thing.

Cheers, helen s




--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--
 

Similar threads