Rim flakes embedded in brake pads



R

Rex Kerr

Guest
The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?
 
"Rex Kerr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
> I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
> suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
> lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
> pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
> again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
> Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?


Shimano pads? Change them..

cheers,
clive
 
On Jan 23, 8:09 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rex Kerr" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
> > The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
> > I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
> > suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
> > lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
> > pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
> > again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
> > Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?Shimano pads? Change them..


Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p

At any rate, some pads seem to have the perfect composition to grab
onto glass and shavings and then not let them go. A good choice for a
brawny bike like a 520 are some classic Kool-Stop Eagle Claw studs.
Black or Salmon, they both work great and last long. About $7-9 per
pair retail.
 
>> > The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
>> > I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
>> > suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
>> > lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
>> > pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
>> > again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
>> > Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?Shimano pads?
>> > Change them..

>
> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p


The bike in question probably has Avid brakes, with Avid, not Bontrager,
pads (that's what's on the spec sheet, but I can't verify because I'm at
home at the moment). They're the same brakes that have been spec'd on that
model since 2004, so there's a lot of them out there, and picking up metal
bits hasn't been an issue in the past.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com



"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Jan 23, 8:09 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Rex Kerr" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> messagenews:[email protected]...
>>
>> > The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
>> > I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
>> > suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
>> > lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
>> > pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
>> > again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
>> > Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?Shimano pads?
>> > Change them..

>
> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p
>
> At any rate, some pads seem to have the perfect composition to grab
> onto glass and shavings and then not let them go. A good choice for a
> brawny bike like a 520 are some classic Kool-Stop Eagle Claw studs.
> Black or Salmon, they both work great and last long. About $7-9 per
> pair retail.
>
 
> The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
> I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
> suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
> lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
> pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
> again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
> Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?


Not sure why you're picking up all the rim bits, but the brake shoes are the
more-likely source of the problem than the rim. We haven't had problems with
Avid brakes in the past, but obviously you are. The SD-5 brake on your bike
uses a non-cartridge brake pad, which tend to last longer than cartridge
style, but are more difficult to switch out. If you've never set up
cantilever brakes before, it's a bit tricky the first time, so it may best
be done at the shop (which, in this case, is Chain Reaction). The pads I'd
recommend using would be KoolStop, because I've never ever come across a bad
KoolStop brake pad. They're consistently good pads, unlike others which seem
to vary from batch to batch.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
On Jan 23, 11:59 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The front brakes on my new Trek 520 make a horrible grinding noise when
> > I stop. The front made a little bit of noise from the beginning, but
> > suddenly got louder. I avoided using it until I got home and found a
> > lot of AL flakes in the pads... so I dug them all out and smoothed the
> > pad with some fine grit sand paper, just to have the same thing happen
> > again within 40 or so miles. What's up? Is the rim self destructing?
> > Will it stop flaking away? Should I change the pads?


>Not sure why you're picking up all the rim bits, but the brake shoes are the
> more-likely source of the problem than the rim. We haven't had problems with
> Avid brakes in the past, but obviously you are. The SD-5 brake on your bike
> uses a non-cartridge brake pad, which tend to last longer than cartridge
> style, but are more difficult to switch out. If you've never set up
> cantilever brakes before, it's a bit tricky the first time, so it may best
> be done at the shop (which, in this case, is Chain Reaction).


AFAIK, the SD-5 brake is a linear pull model. Indeed, it comes with a
non-cart pad. I have no experience with setting up that particular
brake, but LP brakes in general are pretty easy to dial in. Heck, just
did the neighbor's 15 y/o Shimano cantis, and they were rather easy to
set up as well. Just a matter of getting the thing finger tight,
eyeballing, then torquing down.

I have this sneaky feeling that some brake pad compounds go through
some sort of cycle of cure, and if you catch them at the right time,
like those Bontragers I occasionally scorn, you'll get them at just the
right hardness to catch and not release ****. There are indeed,
however, some really bad pads. Late 90s Shimano canti pads never worked
for me--but I can still fix up a late 80s bike with shimano cantis,
resurface the pads with a belt sander and they work great as long as
they've not got too much UV damage. Speaking of which, the dirt cheap
Pyramid clones of the classic 80s Shimano canti stud has worked pretty
well on a few bikes I've used them on. The compound's not as durable as
Kool-Stop stuff, but there's a shitload of material to begin with.

>The pads I'd
> recommend using would be KoolStop, because I've never ever come across a bad
> KoolStop brake pad. They're consistently good pads, unlike others which seem
> to vary from batch to batch.
>


Yup, never used a bad Kool-Stop pad. They make fancy stuff for off
roaders, but city cyclists and tourists will do well with their classic
Eagle Claw for cantis and Continental for calipers.
 
landotter wrote:
> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p


I wish I could share your favorable experience with Tektro pads. The
stock set one my One-Way were absolute ****. I got crazy amounts of rim
shavings. Cleaned them out, but it happened again. Switched them out
for Kool-Stops, which seem to be better, but then I got hit on my other
bike. So it's really to early to tell.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/p_myron_h/tags/wreck/

at least one more month! :/

\\paul
 
Paul Hobson wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
>> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
>> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
>> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
>> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p

>
> I wish I could share your favorable experience with Tektro pads. The
> stock set one my One-Way were absolute ****. I got crazy amounts of rim
> shavings. Cleaned them out, but it happened again. Switched them out
> for Kool-Stops, which seem to be better, but then I got hit on my other
> bike. So it's really to early to tell.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/p_myron_h/tags/wreck/
>
> at least one more month! :/
>
> \\paul


I just swapped out a pair of Tektro pads. They had been grinding
horribly after a few rainy rides. Predictably, they were loaded with
shavings. I swapped them out with some Kool-Stops.
 
> landotter wrote:
>> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
>> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
>> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
>> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
>> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p


Paul Hobson wrote:
> I wish I could share your favorable experience with Tektro pads. The
> stock set one my One-Way were absolute ****. I got crazy amounts of rim
> shavings. Cleaned them out, but it happened again. Switched them out
> for Kool-Stops, which seem to be better, but then I got hit on my other
> bike. So it's really to early to tell.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/p_myron_h/tags/wreck/
> at least one more month! :/


A photo of your cast with no XRays???

http://www.yellowjersey.org/xray.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Jan 24, 11:25 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > landotter wrote:
> >> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
> >> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
> >> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
> >> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
> >> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p

> Paul Hobson wrote:
> > I wish I could share your favorable experience with Tektro pads. The
> > stock set one my One-Way were absolute ****. I got crazy amounts of rim
> > shavings. Cleaned them out, but it happened again. Switched them out
> > for Kool-Stops, which seem to be better, but then I got hit on my other
> > bike. So it's really to early to tell.
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/p_myron_h/tags/wreck/
> > at least one more month! :/A photo of your cast with no XRays???



Nice! If I had my films from last year's wrist injury, I'd share. Not
nearly as dramatic, but I got a sliver of bone loose that got into a
nerve. Ouch! That's what I get for walking my bike down some stairs,
tripping and flipping into the plate glass of a Cingular store. At
least I found a really nice tape measure on my one handed ride home...
 
On Jan 23, 9:59 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you've never set up
> cantilever brakes before, it's a bit tricky the first time, so it may best
> be done at the shop (which, in this case, is Chain Reaction). The pads I'd
> recommend using would be KoolStop, because I've never ever come across a bad
> KoolStop brake pad. They're consistently good pads, unlike others which seem
> to vary from batch to batch.


Yeah, the rear pads work quietly and grab really well. I'll try
switching them out for the Koolstop dual compounds that I put on my
fixed gear not too long ago. If that solves the problem I'll steal the
older KS dual compounds from my commuter that I retired when I bought
this one.

Strange that I'm the one guy who has trouble with them. :)
 
A Muzi wrote:
>> landotter wrote:
>>> Shimano pads have nothing on the **** that is Bontrager pads. You can
>>> usually go no more than half a mile without picking up glass! Amazing!
>>> Amusingly enough, I've never had a problem with even the lowest end
>>> stock Tektro pad, by not a problem, I mean picking up some **** every
>>> few weeks as opposed to minutes. :p

>
> Paul Hobson wrote:
>> I wish I could share your favorable experience with Tektro pads. The
>> stock set one my One-Way were absolute ****. I got crazy amounts of
>> rim shavings. Cleaned them out, but it happened again. Switched them
>> out for Kool-Stops, which seem to be better, but then I got hit on my
>> other bike. So it's really to early to tell.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/p_myron_h/tags/wreck/
>> at least one more month! :/

>
> A photo of your cast with no XRays???
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/xray.html
>


I know! I wish I had one! In lieu of a visual aids, I'll try to
describe it:

Some fairly minor hand bone near my wrist was snapped in two. So the
surgeon* mixed up some bone from my ulna with bit of coral to bridge the
gap, then used a titanium** screw with differently pitched threads on
either end to compress the two parts together. Time off the bike and
away from the drums and other inconveniences aside, I think think it's
really cool how it all works.

*The combination of people skills, knowledge of science and it's
application in engineering-esque applications, plus the real-world
practicality and manual dexterity of surgeons makes them, IMO,
incredibly respectable professionals.

**I wanted steel, but no dice :)
\\paul
 
On Jan 24, 9:00 pm, Paul Hobson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Some fairly minor hand bone near my wrist was snapped in two. So the
> surgeon* mixed up some bone from my ulna with bit of coral to bridge the
> gap, then used a titanium** screw with differently pitched threads on
> either end to compress the two parts together. Time off the bike and
> away from the drums and other inconveniences aside, I think think it's
> really cool how it all works.
>
> *The combination of people skills, knowledge of science and it's
> application in engineering-esque applications, plus the real-world
> practicality and manual dexterity of surgeons makes them, IMO,
> incredibly respectable professionals.
>
> **I wanted steel, but no dice :)


OK, that is cool! Bone, coral, and engineering. :D You're right, too
bad they used ti--it gives a way whippy wrist. :p

Are ya healed back to full strength?
 
landotter wrote:
>
> On Jan 24, 9:00 pm, Paul Hobson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Some fairly minor hand bone near my wrist was snapped in two. So the
>> surgeon* mixed up some bone from my ulna with bit of coral to bridge the
>> gap, then used a titanium** screw with differently pitched threads on
>> either end to compress the two parts together. Time off the bike and
>> away from the drums and other inconveniences aside, I think think it's
>> really cool how it all works.
>>
>> *The combination of people skills, knowledge of science and it's
>> application in engineering-esque applications, plus the real-world
>> practicality and manual dexterity of surgeons makes them, IMO,
>> incredibly respectable professionals.
>>
>> **I wanted steel, but no dice :)

>
> OK, that is cool! Bone, coral, and engineering. :D You're right, too
> bad they used ti--it gives a way whippy wrist. :p
>
> Are ya healed back to full strength?
>


No no. I was in a post-surgery splint/wrap for the past two weeks. I
got the cast on Tuesday. I've another appointment in 4 weeks to check
my progress. It may come off then, but if I had to guess, it'll need at
least two more weeks. [official recovery time = 6 to 16(!) weeks]. The
real kicker is that my wrist felt fine before the surgery, but when they
took that splint off, it looked and felt week as hell. I was scared to
walk over to the x-ray room without anything supporting it.

Every time I hop on the train to get to school I curse the ******* that
hit me (and then ran off). The cops aren't doing **** about this, but
Blue Cross/Blue Shield has his tag now, so we'll see how well the
private sector comes through. [crosses fingers]

p.s. Did you spell the subject "borken" b/c you're Swedish? <eg><eg>
 
On Jan 24, 11:57 pm, Paul Hobson <[email protected]> wrote:
>No no. I was in a post-surgery splint/wrap for the past two weeks.


Ah, that's right, you're the new guy in the broken wrist club, I
remember now! It's been a popular thing to smash with people in my
circle over the past couple years. Collarbones are soooo '95!


> I got the cast on Tuesday. I've another appointment in 4 weeks to check
> my progress. It may come off then, but if I had to guess, it'll need at
> least two more weeks. [official recovery time = 6 to 16(!) weeks]. The
> real kicker is that my wrist felt fine before the surgery, but when they
> took that splint off, it looked and felt week as hell. I was scared to
> walk over to the x-ray room without anything supporting it.
>
> Every time I hop on the train to get to school I curse the ******* that
> hit me (and then ran off). The cops aren't doing **** about this, but
> Blue Cross/Blue Shield has his tag now, so we'll see how well the
> private sector comes through. [crosses fingers]


Yup, remember ya saying something about that.Can't believe the cops
aren't doing anything about a hit and run--when you've got the goddamn
plate number. Oh, wait...you're in Georgia. Sigh. If the police are
anything like Tennessee, it's ten moustachioed rednecks in mirrored
Oakleys to the one decent cop (who happens to live down the street from
me).

Been a bit of hit and run going around recently. A Welsh lad I know
casually on the net just got whacked by a Ford in Cardiff yesterday.
The driver only stopped for a second to curse him. He wasn't able to
get more than a couple letters off the plate. He was able to get a look
at the driver, so he can describe them perfectly. I'm encouraging him
to follow through. He was unscathed ending up still clipped in on top
of the Fiesta's hood, but tacoed the front wheel and bent his fork. Two
blocks after picking his bike up from the shop after repairs from
another bike/car incident. Yikes.

> p.s. Did you spell the subject "borken" b/c you're Swedish? <eg><eg>


Bork bork bork!
 
"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Jan 24, 11:57 pm, Paul Hobson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >No no. I was in a post-surgery splint/wrap for the past two weeks.

>
> Ah, that's right, you're the new guy in the broken wrist club, I
> remember now! It's been a popular thing to smash with people in my
> circle over the past couple years. Collarbones are soooo '95!
>
>
> > I got the cast on Tuesday. I've another appointment in 4 weeks to

check
> > my progress. It may come off then, but if I had to guess, it'll need

at
> > least two more weeks. [official recovery time = 6 to 16(!) weeks].

The
> > real kicker is that my wrist felt fine before the surgery, but when

they
> > took that splint off, it looked and felt week as hell. I was scared

to
> > walk over to the x-ray room without anything supporting it.
> >
> > Every time I hop on the train to get to school I curse the *******

that
> > hit me (and then ran off). The cops aren't doing **** about this, but
> > Blue Cross/Blue Shield has his tag now, so we'll see how well the
> > private sector comes through. [crosses fingers]

>
> Yup, remember ya saying something about that.Can't believe the cops
> aren't doing anything about a hit and run--when you've got the goddamn
> plate number. Oh, wait...you're in Georgia. Sigh. If the police are
> anything like Tennessee, it's ten moustachioed rednecks in mirrored
> Oakleys to the one decent cop (who happens to live down the street from
> me).
>
> Been a bit of hit and run going around recently. A Welsh lad I know
> casually on the net just got whacked by a Ford in Cardiff yesterday.
> The driver only stopped for a second to curse him. He wasn't able to
> get more than a couple letters off the plate. He was able to get a look
> at the driver, so he can describe them perfectly. I'm encouraging him
> to follow through. He was unscathed ending up still clipped in on top
> of the Fiesta's hood, but tacoed the front wheel and bent his fork. Two
> blocks after picking his bike up from the shop after repairs from
> another bike/car incident. Yikes.
>
> > p.s. Did you spell the subject "borken" b/c you're Swedish? <eg><eg>

>
> Bork bork bork!
>


We are Bork. Resistance is futile.

I was lucky when I slammed into the back of a car. I was in a full sprint
down a hill doing over 30 MPH when some guys I knew drove by and
unexpectedly stopped in front of me. I looked up and BANG. I flew over the
roof and ended up splayed out on the hood of a 1966 Buick.

The hood ornament broke my nose. My fork blades straightened out, the head
tube was parallel to the down tube and the front wheel was V'd. Everything
in front of the crank was trash. They were a couple of stoners and had the
nerve to ***** that I scratched their car.

Chas.
 

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