road bike / race bike / hybrid / touring / fitness bike - which one

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <[email protected]>,
Rob Morley <[email protected]> writes:
|>
|> > |> No, certainly not. The hands can be resting fairly lightly on the hoods.
|> >
|> > Which means that you are carrying a large proportion of the weight of
|> > your torso with your back muscles for long periods. NOT good news for
|> > most of the large number of people with lower back problems, and many
|> > people can't hold that position for long at all without resting on
|> > their hands.
|> >
|> IME it's the inability to comfortably maintain pedalling pressure that
|> causes a problem with this position - I have lower back problems and
|> cycling is one of the strenuous activities that actually helps my back.

Not all lower back problems are the same. I can't hold that position
without pain for long. More to the point, my posting corresponds to
what the physiologists and physiotherapists say is the recommendation
for most people.

|> Although we walk upright our spines didn't really evolved for that
|> posture - leaning forward reduces pressure and allows the spine to flex
|> rather than jarring with road shock.

That is another of the commonly quoted myths which seem to infest
cycling. We have been upright bipeds for c. 3 million years, and our
spines are no longer adapted to anything other than a vertical position.
True, they aren't perfectly adapted to that, but are more adapted to it
than to any other position.

All physiologists and physiotherapists point out that you should keep
your spine essentially upright when any strain (INCLUDING jarring) is
involved. I once worked on ejection seats (in a minor way) and the
same is true for them.

|> The other problem that riders
|> often have, whether with straight bars or drops, is that they lock their
|> elbows rather than keeping them flexed, so shocks from the bars are
|> absorbed by the hands and wrists or transmitted to the shoulders and
|> neck.

Fine. IF you are strong enough. Not everyone is. In fact, probably
most people aren't, at least for a period of an hour or more.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

 

[DavidR]

"Pete Biggs" <[email protected]> wrote
> DavidR wrote:
>> "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>> Then fix your brakes. You ought to be able to lift the rear wheel
>>> with two finger pressure from the hoods.
>>
>> Then many riders I know must have broken brakes too. By experiment
>> my braking distance roughly doubles from the hoods compared to the
>> drop.
>
> From 20 mph on the flat, with an average road bike + average dual-pivot
> caliper + average modern lever + average hands, it is possible to lift
> the rear wheel within a couple of seconds of braking from the hoods.

Within ...a couple of seconds...? Then my point stands. To even consider
a setup as approaching "good" I suggest it should to be possible to go
*smoothly* from levers off to full stop within that time.

>> As an aside, why is it so difficult to get decent brake blocks? Apart
>> from Koolstops it seems to me that manufacturers go out of their way
>> to avoid providing strong braking. Astecs are ok but some blocks are
>> just hard and ineffective - as in offering little more than 0.3g.
>
> This is a another sign that your brake caliper/lever/setup isn't good if
> you need the best blocks to stop well.

Certainly; an experiment to try some part used Koolstops that gave over
150lbf rim force on a V brake made absolutely no difference to a
Weinman sidepull, which still only gave its usual 30lbf. (say 180lb all up
= 0.16g). But that is not the item of discussion here.

But it is fairly simple to select blocks. Out of an assortment two things
can be tested. Firstly, the fingernail test: the nail should get a
purchase, not simply slide over it. Secondly just hold the blocks and rub
them over over a wheel rim (no need to mount it in the caliper);
differences in friction are easily noticeable.

While a good V brake may be less sensitive to blocks - one can afford to
come down a long way from 150lbf - road sidepulls just do not
have that kind of slack.

> Get the best out of any blocks though by regularly sanding to take off
> the "glaze".

Indeed. I found Koolstop salmons to deteriorate very rapidly in this
respect.

 

[DavidR]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote
> DavidR wrote:
>
>> By experiment
>> my braking distance roughly doubles from the hoods compared to the
>> drop.
>
> Then the experiment shows that the bike you do this on needs its brakes
> fixing... It would explain your insistence that braking with drop bars
> is inherently broken if you've always tried it with broken brakes.

>> Then many riders I know must have broken brakes too.
>
> Possible...

Or their and my expectations are greater than yours.

 

[Pete Biggs]

DavidR wrote:
> "Pete Biggs" <[email protected]> wrote
>> DavidR wrote:
>>> "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>>> Then fix your brakes. You ought to be able to lift the rear wheel
>>>> with two finger pressure from the hoods.
>>>
>>> Then many riders I know must have broken brakes too. By experiment
>>> my braking distance roughly doubles from the hoods compared to the
>>> drop.
>>
>> From 20 mph on the flat, with an average road bike + average
>> dual-pivot caliper + average modern lever + average hands, it is
>> possible to lift the rear wheel within a couple of seconds of
>> braking from the hoods.
>
> Within ...a couple of seconds...? Then my point stands. To even
> consider a setup as approaching "good" I suggest it should to be
> possible to go *smoothly* from levers off to full stop within that
> time.

My memory of how long a second is may be dodgy. Whatever it is, on the
flat, my stopping distance from the hood position is easily good enough for
mad and aggressive cycling, let alone anything more sensible.

My main point is that the drop position only noticeably improves my stopping
distance on fast descents.

~PB

 

[DavidR]

"Pete Biggs" <[email protected]> wrote
> DavidR wrote:
>> "Pete Biggs" <[email protected]> wrote

>>> From 20 mph on the flat, with an average road bike + average
>>> dual-pivot caliper + average modern lever + average hands, it is
>>> possible to lift the rear wheel within a couple of seconds of
>>> braking from the hoods.
>>
>> Within ...a couple of seconds...? Then my point stands. To even
>> consider a setup as approaching "good" I suggest it should to be
>> possible to go *smoothly* from levers off to full stop within that
>> time.
>
> My memory of how long a second is may be dodgy.

Even so, it is clear that response time is not imperceptible. That matters
much more than ultimate retardation.

> Whatever it is, on the
> flat, my stopping distance from the hood position is easily good enough
> for mad and aggressive cycling,

.... in which take up is often factored in, until the unusual happens.

A mistake a lot of car drivers make when they claim the 35 year old
Highway Code is out of date.


I must admit, after having had a more careful look round, Shimano 105's
might address one issue: the shape allows the hands to rest above the bar
and the palms to rest snugly against the horn. Unfortunately they don't
solve the requirement to rotate onto the thumbs to brake..