Road bike rear hub - 130 or 135?



M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
Hi,

Having had a couple of spokes break on my back wheel last night, I'm
taking the opportunity to replace it as I'm not happy with the
difficulty of getting tyres to sit properly on it and it is 27x1 1/4 so
a pain to get tyres for (except by order or mail order - not much use
when one fails on you half way around a 200km audax as happened to me a
couple of weeks ago).

Anyway, going to modern 700c is obviously the way forward; I've already
replaced my brake callipers with deep drop Alhongas (thanks to those who
recommended them to me in this group a while back - they transformed my
braking performance), so the diameter difference isn't an issue.

What I am wondering now is whether to go for 130 or 135mm hubs. I'm
going to have to bend the frame (steel) anyway, so is it worth going to
135mm MTB style for additional ruggedness (less dishing etc.)? I'm not
particularly light at around 15 stone, and can carry heavy panniers when
commuting (when I sometimes need to carry the laptop etc.). For my
riding style I want reliability rather than light weight racing (but I
use a hardtail MTB for anything vaguely rough - this bike doesn't need
to cope with anything worse than typical poor road surfaces).

A fairly inexpensive option seems to be a Deore hub with A319 rims,
which is about the same price as a Sora hub with the same rims. Should I
be looking at MTB hubs rather than road? Should I be looking at other
rims? And are there any recommendations for where to buy wheels from?
Budget isn't really an issue if it is justifiable - which for me means
I'll pay for reliability but not doubling the price to save a few
grammes (I'd rather spend an extra few pounds now than be walking with a
broken wheel).

Thanks,

Matt
 
M

Mark

Guest
> And are there any recommendations for where to buy wheels from?

If having a wheel made up for you then LBS is prolly the best place. As
you say money isn't a problem I'd definately do that - you'll get a better
wheel.

If you want a factory made wheel then wherever is cheapest.

I'd say any half decent mechanic should be able to whack a wheel together.
If in doubt, ring LBS and ask 'em if they can recommend a good
wheelbuilder. If they pause before they recommend themselves, go
elsewhere!;)
 
A

Ace

Guest
On 10 Jul 2007 12:00:08 GMT, Mark
<[email protected]*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>
wrote:

>> And are there any recommendations for where to buy wheels from?

>
>If having a wheel made up for you then LBS is prolly the best place. As
>you say money isn't a problem I'd definately do that - you'll get a better
>wheel.
>
>If you want a factory made wheel then wherever is cheapest.
>
>I'd say any half decent mechanic should be able to whack a wheel together.
>If in doubt, ring LBS and ask 'em if they can recommend a good
>wheelbuilder. If they pause before they recommend themselves, go
>elsewhere!;)


Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding is sufficiently detailed and
accurate for a novice to build a perfectly good wheel from a standing
start, as it were. http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html I'd
thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even half an ounce of
mechanical ability.
 
M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
Mark wrote:
>> And are there any recommendations for where to buy wheels from?

>
> If having a wheel made up for you then LBS is prolly the best place. As
> you say money isn't a problem I'd definately do that


I wouldn't say money isn't a problem, just that I'm not averse to
spending it where necessary :)

> - you'll get a better
> wheel.


Unfortunately the only person I know to buy a custom wheel from our LBS
had a lot of trouble with it being overly fragile (it was good quality
parts and he is lighter than I am, but it was still unreliable and after
a few attempts at having it fixed he bought another factory wheel from a
different shop). Maybe it was a one off, but it doesn't inspire confidence.

Matt
 
M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
Ace wrote:

> Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding is sufficiently detailed and
> accurate for a novice to build a perfectly good wheel from a standing
> start, as it were. http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html I'd
> thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even half an ounce of
> mechanical ability.


I should get around to doing that, but time is a real issue at the
moment (I don't even veg in front of the telly in the evening, there is
too much to do). The free time I do have I'd rather be out on the bike
in what little sunshine we are getting...

Maybe as a winter project I ought to try it out.

Matt
 
S

squeaker

Guest
I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
better sealed, but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?
 

Guest
On 10 Jul,
Ace <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding is sufficiently detailed and
> accurate for a novice to build a perfectly good wheel from a standing
> start, as it were. http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html I'd
> thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even half an ounce of
> mechanical ability.
>

I knocked one up in a little over half an hour using the information on that
page. It was the first one I'd done for 40 years, and only the third I'd
done. It was a front one, a rear one would probably have taken longer with
the amount of dishing ciurrently necessary.


--
BD
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
 
M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
squeaker wrote:
> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
> better sealed,


I was thinking more along the lines of wheel strength rather than the
hub itself, where the wider hub may give a stronger build? But I could
be completely wrong on that.

> but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
> money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?


I can see your point, though these are the first spokes I've ever broken
- even on the MTB I've been lucky with my wheels so far (touches pretend
wood desktop).

I'm looking at 36 DT Swiss double butted. To be honest, I've never
really thought about wheels to this degree before - I killed a couple of
axles and a wheel back in the 80s whilst touring, but just went into the
bike shop and bought what they had (a Rigida for about £15 IIRC), and
that just worked.

Matt
 
B

Ben Micklem

Guest
in article [email protected], squeaker
at [email protected] wrote on 10/7/07 15:39:

> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
> better sealed, but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
> money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?


I enquired about wheel builders in this newsgroup a few weeks ago, and think
I may have a go myself. Does anyone have a source of good, but cheap,
spokes? Wiggle have black DT spokes at £45 for 72, which is more than a pair
of Deore hubs (at online prices). Am I wrong in expecting spokes to be
cheaper?

Ben
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
Ace wrote:

>
> Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding is sufficiently detailed and
> accurate for a novice to build a perfectly good wheel from a standing
> start, as it were. http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html I'd
> thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even half an ounce of
> mechanical ability.
>
>


And a wheel of far better quality and durability than the usual poor
fare whacked together by a half decent bicycle mechanic most of whom
show their not decent half in their wheel building skills (IME).

Tony
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
Matthew Haigh wrote:
>
> I'm looking at 36 DT Swiss double butted. To be honest, I've never
> really thought about wheels to this degree before - I killed a couple of
> axles and a wheel back in the 80s whilst touring, but just went into the
> bike shop and bought what they had (a Rigida for about £15 IIRC), and
> that just worked.
>


I ride 32 spoke home built wheels on road (Ultegra) hubs without any
problems whatsoever and I weigh more than you do. If you have problems
with 36 spokes then the wheel is badly built.

Tony
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
Ben Micklem wrote:
> in article [email protected], squeaker
> at [email protected] wrote on 10/7/07 15:39:
>
>> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
>> better sealed, but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
>> money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?

>
> I enquired about wheel builders in this newsgroup a few weeks ago, and think
> I may have a go myself. Does anyone have a source of good, but cheap,
> spokes? Wiggle have black DT spokes at £45 for 72, which is more than a pair
> of Deore hubs (at online prices). Am I wrong in expecting spokes to be
> cheaper?
>


Roseversand is the place for spokes. Take a little longer to come from
Germany but their prices are a fraction of UK retailers.
http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=57

Tony
 
A

Ace

Guest
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:23:31 +0100, Matthew Haigh <[email protected]?.?> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> Sheldon's article on wheelbuilding is sufficiently detailed and
>> accurate for a novice to build a perfectly good wheel from a standing
>> start, as it were. http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html I'd
>> thoroughly recommend it to anyone with even half an ounce of
>> mechanical ability.

>
>I should get around to doing that, but time is a real issue at the
>moment (I don't even veg in front of the telly in the evening, there is
>too much to do). The free time I do have I'd rather be out on the bike
>in what little sunshine we are getting...


Furry muff, I suppose, but it really shouldn't take much more than an
hour or so, even if you've not done one before.

>Maybe as a winter project I ought to try it out.


Only if you do it indoors or have a heated garage. Fiddling with
spokes and stuff is very finger-freezing, and many a knuckle will also
tend to be skinned.
 
V

vernon

Guest
"Matthew Haigh" <[email protected]?.?> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> A fairly inexpensive option seems to be a Deore hub with A319 rims,
> which is about the same price as a Sora hub with the same rims. Should I
> be looking at MTB hubs rather than road? Should I be looking at other
> rims? And are there any recommendations for where to buy wheels from?
> Budget isn't really an issue if it is justifiable - which for me means
> I'll pay for reliability but not doubling the price to save a few
> grammes (I'd rather spend an extra few pounds now than be walking with a
> broken wheel).
>

At a svelte <cough> 21 stones plus camping gear my hand built Deore hubbed
A319 rimmed rear wheel has coped well, so much so that when I needed a
replacement front wheel I had one built to match. I had my whells built by
Woodrups in Leeds. You might also consider having a chat with Spa Cycles in
Harrogate www.spacycles.co.uk who have a solid reputation when it comes to
wheelbuilding for touring/expeditions.
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Matthew Haigh ('[email protected]?.?') wrote:

> squeaker wrote:
>> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
>> better sealed,

>
> I was thinking more along the lines of wheel strength rather than the
> hub itself, where the wider hub may give a stronger build? But I could
> be completely wrong on that.


It would, but the chain line will be off.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <C2B96719.33D24%[email protected]>, Ben Micklem
('[email protected]') wrote:

> in article [email protected],
> squeaker at [email protected] wrote on 10/7/07 15:39:
>
>> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
>> better sealed, but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
>> money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?

>
> I enquired about wheel builders in this newsgroup a few weeks ago, and
> think I may have a go myself. Does anyone have a source of good, but
> cheap, spokes? Wiggle have black DT spokes at £45 for 72, which is more
> than a pair of Deore hubs (at online prices). Am I wrong in expecting
> spokes to be cheaper?


Roseversand.de, DT Swiss spokes from 0.22 Euro each upwards:
http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=80&detail2=15&bereich=392&ebene=2

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563
 
M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
Tony Raven wrote:
> Matthew Haigh wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking at 36 DT Swiss double butted. To be honest, I've never
>> really thought about wheels to this degree before - I killed a couple of
>> axles and a wheel back in the 80s whilst touring, but just went into the
>> bike shop and bought what they had (a Rigida for about £15 IIRC), and
>> that just worked.
>>

>
> I ride 32 spoke home built wheels on road (Ultegra) hubs without any
> problems whatsoever and I weigh more than you do. If you have problems
> with 36 spokes then the wheel is badly built.


I've not had a problem with 36 spokes - I was just lookinmg at speccing
the new wheel at that.

Matt
 
M

Matthew Haigh

Guest
Ace wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:23:31 +0100, Matthew Haigh <[email protected]?.?> wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe as a winter project I ought to try it out.

>
> Only if you do it indoors or have a heated garage. Fiddling with
> spokes and stuff is very finger-freezing, and many a knuckle will also
> tend to be skinned.


I normally work on the bike in the house (unless the weather is nice) -
much to my wife's disgust :)
 
D

Dennis Ferguson

Guest
On 2007-07-10, Matthew Haigh <[email protected]?.?> wrote:
> squeaker wrote:
>> I would have thought that an MTB style hub would be more robust and
>> better sealed,

>
> I was thinking more along the lines of wheel strength rather than the
> hub itself, where the wider hub may give a stronger build? But I could
> be completely wrong on that.


The wider hub might give you a slightly stronger wheel, but will also
screw up your chain line slightly more, leave your dropouts slightly
less parallel after you spead them and will slightly increase the
chance of damaging your frame while bending it. While all these
issues are minor, I think my choice would be to minimize the amount
of frame spreading required to get the new wheel to fit by using the
narrower hub.

>> but as you have previously broken spokes, maybe the
>> money should be spent there (more, and better quality)?

>
> I can see your point, though these are the first spokes I've ever broken
> - even on the MTB I've been lucky with my wheels so far (touches pretend
> wood desktop).
>
> I'm looking at 36 DT Swiss double butted. To be honest, I've never
> really thought about wheels to this degree before - I killed a couple of
> axles and a wheel back in the 80s whilst touring, but just went into the
> bike shop and bought what they had (a Rigida for about £15 IIRC), and
> that just worked.


I've only bought wheels in the USA and Canada but my experience is that,
when you need a whole new wheel (i.e. new rim, spokes and hub) it is
usually significantly cheaper to buy a complete, machine-built wheel with
the parts you want, if you can find one, rather than to buy the same parts
separately and put the wheel together yourself. The machine-built
wheel will still benefit greatly by being retensioned and "stress
relieved" (the last part of the wheel building instructions), either
by yourself or by a competent wheel builder. Doing it this way can
give you the same wheel you would build yourself while saving both
money and the labour of lacing the wheel.

Dennis Ferguson
 

Guest
On 10 Jul,
Ace <[email protected]> wrote:

> Only if you do it indoors or have a heated garage. Fiddling with
> spokes and stuff is very finger-freezing, and many a knuckle will also
> tend to be skinned.


I assembled mine in the lounge using new bits without disapproval from SWMBO.
An electric screwdriver made the job considerably faster than similar jobs in
my youth. The most time consuming part was findin out what spoke lengths were
required, I eventually found the swiss DT website and a calculator there.

--
BD
Change lycos to yahoo to reply