Road frame for 6'3``

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Doc, Apr 3, 2003.

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  1. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo) are
    to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to ride
    hard. Thanks. Doc.
     
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  2. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Doc <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    > aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo)
    > are to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to
    > ride hard.

    There are two issues here:

    1) Proper Fit: You need to get a frame that's big enough for you. Make sure you can get the
    handlebars high enough for comfort, and far enough forward to not be cramped. You also want to be
    positioned properly with respect to the bottom bracket (knee over pedal spindle +/-).

    2) Strength: I wouldn't worry too much about the bike being too heavy unless it's over 24 pounds.
    Strength is NOT all about frame material. Some aluminum bikes are plenty strong, and SOME steel
    bikes are "stupid light."

    At 200 pounds, you're not THAT heavy. But I would stay with at least 32 spoke wheels and a would
    avoid very light frames.

    FWIW, I'm 6' 3" and 195 pounds and I ride a steel (Columbus SL) 63cm frame and 36 spoke wheels.

    Art Harris
     
  3. Mike Hejl

    Mike Hejl Guest

    Doc <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    > aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo)
    > are to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to
    > ride hard. Thanks. Doc.

    I'm 6' 205# and replaced my CF frame with a Habanero 60cm road frame a few months ago. Aside from
    the great price for a Ti frame, it has the least amount of bottom bracket flex I've ever
    experienced. I've ridden various steel (prior to about '91) and CF frames but only limited Al.

    I'd definitely buy a Habby again (and plan to get a MTB frame) but would probably go with a custom
    with more relaxed angles and longer chainstays. Only problem I've had is mounting 25c Avocets - they
    rub the brake bridge.

    Mikey
     
  4. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Doc" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    > aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo)
    > are to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to
    > ride hard.

    I'm 6'4" and 210 lbs. I'ver never had a problem with any frame "deforming" when riding hard
    including racing or touring. I personally prefer steel frames but it is not because there is
    any performance advantage between frame materials. I do believe aluminum is a poor choice for a
    bike frame because of fatigue failure, but as far as I know there is not really any objective
    data indicating that my mistrust of Al frames is founded in reality. It's a longstanding
    prejudice of mine.

    "Stiff" by the way is really a moot point. All modern frames are "stiff enough." Don't
    worry about it.

    At 200 lbs, a 1 lb weight difference in frame weight is meaningless. Don't worry about that either.
    Do you notice a difference whether your water bottles are full or empty? That's more than a pound.

    What matters is that the bike fits and you are comfortable riding it.
     
  5. "Doc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    > aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo)
    > are to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to
    > ride hard. Thanks. Doc.

    At 6'3" and 200 lbs (or a little more), I only ride steel frames because that is what I like. I
    guess I get a little flex while standing and stomping on the pedals, but the frame does not
    "deform". Any well built frame out of any material will be fine for anything short of BMX style
    jumping off ramps...

    Brian Plaugher
     
  6. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Tim McNamara wrote:

    > "Stiff" by the way is really a moot point. All modern frames are "stiff enough." Don't worry
    > about it.

    I'd disagree with this statement. Racing frames don't weigh as much as touring frames for a
    reason. Heavier riders and riders who carry a lot of gear have a greater need for frame stiffness
    than lightweight riders. Without sufficient stiffness, handling and/or high-speed shimmy problems
    can occur.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
  7. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:55:16 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:

    >Aside from the great price for a Ti frame, it has the least amount of bottom bracket flex I've ever
    >experienced. I've ridden various steel (prior to about '91) and CF frames but only limited Al.

    What do you feel when you experience the flex in the BB? Is the flex that negative a thing?
     
  8. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Stiff" by the way is really a moot point. All modern frames are "stiff enough." Don't worry
    > about it.

    It ain't so.

    I just sold my new Van Dessel Buzz Bomb-- a nice bike but not a very light bike-- because the frame
    was freaky-flexible under my admittedly unusual weight and pedaling forces. When I had the
    suspension fork set up appropriately, with a little more than the optimum amount of sag, the front
    end would sidestep small rocks etc. before the fork could even compress to roll over them. The rear
    would remain upright; the effect was unnerving to say the least.

    The Buzz Bomb with its vertical-axis airfoil down tube is certainly not a stiff frame, but I would
    be quite surprised if it were not stiffer than many of the bike offerings out there, particularly
    those with superlight frames.

    Frame stiffness is an issue for heavy riders, unusually strong riders, or (especially) tall riders.
    Riders vary over a weight range of about
    3:1, but frame stiffness probably varies more than that, when you compare a stiffly constructed
    frame in the smallest size to a willowy frame in the tallest size. tall riders are more likely to
    be heavy than short ones, and their frames are quite a bit more flexible if the tubing is not
    matched to the frame size. Generalizations that hold for 56cm frames and their riders, don't hold
    for 66cm frames and their riders, even with "equal" frames.

    Chalo Colina
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:
    >On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:55:16 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >>Aside from the great price for a Ti frame, it has the least amount of bottom bracket flex I've
    >>ever experienced. I've ridden various steel (prior to about '91) and CF frames but only
    >>limited Al.
    >
    >What do you feel when you experience the flex in the BB? Is the flex that negative a thing?

    The only reasons I don't like BB and chainstay flex are (a) derailleur rub, and (b) rear wheel hop
    riding out of the saddle - the rear triangle winds up and springs back with a side-ways tire skip
    under some conditions. Problem (a) is a little annoying but not a big deal, and problem (b) I only
    find in steel bikes with slender stays in tall sizes. The typical 24" steel Trek road bike of the
    1980s is in that category for me. Despite that dislike it doesn't really make the bike unridable
    or anything.

    --Paul
     
  10. Tbgibb

    Tbgibb Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Doc" <[email protected]> writes:

    >Someone can give me his advice or experience about road frame for a 6'3`` and 200 pounds guy? Is
    >aluminum enough stiff and tough? Some alu are so thin ,it seems to be weak. Some steel (cro-mo) are
    >to heavy i think.Can i find a ``nervous`` frame that will not ``deform`` when i am going to ride
    >hard. Thanks. Doc.
    >

    An Aluminum frame with oversized tubing would be quite stiff, stiff enough for the pundits that
    write for Buycycling type magazines to sniff about ride harshness. Cannondale is one to consider. I
    think they make a 63 cm frame and perhaps one larger than that.

    Tom Gibb <[email protected]
     
  11. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Flex in BB is not a problem. But high-speed shimmy is a problem. It is like the front of your bike
    is out of control.Like a swing of pendulum! What a nightmare when it happens! Doc. "Paul Kopit"
    <[email protected]> [email protected]
    > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:55:16 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > >Aside from the great price for a Ti frame, it has the least amount of bottom bracket flex I've
    > >ever experienced. I've ridden various steel (prior to about '91) and CF frames but only
    > >limited Al.
    >
    > What do you feel when you experience the flex in the BB? Is the flex that negative a thing?
     
  12. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Todd,all my life I will remind the day when my bike had a high-speed shimmy .I am afraid of. Doc.
    "Todd Kuzma" <[email protected]> a √©crit dans le message de news: [email protected]
    > Tim McNamara wrote:
    >
    >
    > > "Stiff" by the way is really a moot point. All modern frames are "stiff enough." Don't worry
    > > about it.
    >
    >
    > I'd disagree with this statement. Racing frames don't weigh as much as touring frames for a
    > reason. Heavier riders and riders who carry a lot of gear have a greater need for frame stiffness
    > than lightweight riders. Without sufficient stiffness, handling and/or high-speed shimmy problems
    > can occur.
    >
    > Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
    > http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
  13. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Todd Kuzma <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Tim McNamara wrote:
    >
    > > "Stiff" by the way is really a moot point. All modern frames are "stiff enough." Don't worry
    > > about it.
    >
    > I'd disagree with this statement. Racing frames don't weigh as much as touring frames for a
    > reason. Heavier riders and riders who carry a lot of gear have a greater need for frame stiffness
    > than lightweight riders. Without sufficient stiffness, handling and/or high-speed shimmy problems
    > can occur.

    I agree with the part about riders who carry a lot of gear. Touring has specialized demands on a
    bike. Not sure that I agree about just big and/or tall riders

    As a big rider myself, I have found routinely that I have less trouble with shimmy than many lighter
    riders- and I have no reasonable explanation for this. Perhaps I just expect bikes to shimmy some
    and respond accordingly?

    What kind of handling problems were you thinking of?
     
  14. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <7v5ja.34187$A%[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote:

    > The only reasons I don't like BB and chainstay flex are (a) derailleur rub, and (b) rear wheel hop
    > riding out of the saddle - the rear triangle winds up and springs back with a side-ways tire skip
    > under some conditions.

    I've had this happen when climbing a steep pitch and standing, if the road is a bit gritty or sandy.
    Doesn't seem to happen as often climbing gravel- or at least it doesn't seem as noticeable- but IMHO
    that's nothing to do with frame flex. It's just the slip effect of the fine particles.

    I've never had a frame "skip" sideways during a sprint in a race. Those are the only two out of the
    saddle situations with a lot of power being applied that I normally encounter. What situations are
    you experiencing this?
     
  15. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >I'm 6'4" and 210 lbs. I'ver never had a problem with any frame "deforming" when riding hard
    >including racing or touring.

    I am 6 ft 1 and about 230lbs. I do have problems with BB flex on some bikes. Pushing a 110 inch
    gear up an 8% grades can cause problems with the chain jumping cogs on a flexible frame like my old
    SR Maxima.

    Yeah, there is probably no real reason to push a 110 inch gear in a situation like that. But if one
    wants to do it for whatever reason, a flexible frame will have problems.

    In this regard, my 1986 Cannondale was the best bike I ever had, solid BB, a nice bike on a
    long ride.

    Jon Isaacs
     
  16. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Tim McNamara wrote:

    > What kind of handling problems were you thinking of?

    Many of the loads on a frame are torsional. These loads are trying to twist the frame. Such twist
    can cause the front and rear wheels to shift out of plane with each other.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
  17. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    TBGibb wrote:

    > An Aluminum frame with oversized tubing would be quite stiff, stiff enough for the pundits that
    > write for Buycycling type magazines to sniff about ride harshness. Cannondale is one to consider.
    > I think they make a 63 cm frame and perhaps one larger than that.

    Aluminum is not universally stiff. Many aluminum frames on the market are designed to be
    lightweight, not necessarily stiff. For a given tube diameter, a thinner-walled tube will be lighter
    and more flexible than a thicker-walled tube. Aluminum frames that are pushing the weight limits are
    not going to be as stiff as heavier aluminum frames.

    Using oversize tubing is one way to gain stiffness, but many manufacturers are already pushing the
    limit on wall thickness with OS tubing and are making strength and flexibility compromises to get
    the weight down as much as possible. You can search the archives for plenty of stories of 230 pound
    riders unhappy with their 2 pound frames because they either failed or had unacceptable flex.

    The considerations apply to aluminum, steel, and titanium. Generally, when you try to get the weight
    down, you are going to forgo stiffness. There is nothing magic about aluminum that makes it any
    different than ti or steel.

    The bike magazines misdiagnosed the harsh ride problem when frames with OS aluminum tubing were
    introduced. The ride problems were not from the frame material but the absurdly short wheelbases and
    crappy forks that became in fashion at the same time.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
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