Road rage incident & lessons learned

[Andrew]

On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction which
has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
very scary.

I shout that he should give me more 'kin room & I think (its
all a bit of an adrenal blur) offer a hand gesture.

Lesson one, try not to swear & gesticulate in an
offensive manner.

I am surprised when I hear shouts back as it is French
Registered & LHD. I would expect more respect from a French
driver but he is not.

He stops 50m further on as do I.

Lesson two, don't stop. Who knows what type of psycho he
could be? Peter Sutcliffe was a lorry driver.

He is out of the cab & effing & blinding. He tells me that I
should have stopped & the line & I answer back. Somewhere
along the line he call me a cnut & threatens violence.
Laughable he tells me to read the highway code & only later
realise I could have told him to read the sections of use of
the horn & room for cyclists.

I am bigger than him, fitter & wearing a helmet. But I am
already late for work & have not punched anyone since I left
school. He calls me a ****** & I tell him to look in the
mirror if he wants to see one.

I ride off into heavy traffic so there is no way he
could catch up.

Third & most important lesson. I should have got his
registration to complain to the company. He got away with it
& because I wasn't calm enough he may even think he's right.

Be safe out there.

--
Andrew

 

[Zog The Undenia]

andrew wrote:
> On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
> which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.
>
> I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
> protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
> pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
> from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
> keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.
>
> 200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
> ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
> back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
> very scary.

That's nothing...an overtaking HGV actually brushed my arm
once. Mental note to self: practise those sideways jumps up
onto the pavement for emergencies such as this.

Oh...and you're right - NEVER stop.

 

[Tim Hall]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:20:41 +0100, "andrew"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
>which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.
>
>I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
>protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
>pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
>from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
>keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.
>
>200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
>ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
>back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
>very scary.
>
<snip>

More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you got
there or did he arrive after you?

Tim

 

[Adrian Boliston]

"Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you got
> there or did he arrive after you?

I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
squeezed past hoping for a "bike box". Unless the traffic is
jammed up immediately *after* the lights there would seem
little gain to be made by squeezing to the front of the
queue as you simply get a silly "leapfrogging" situation.
The fact that the lorry caught up with the OP after only 200
yards means the road must have been free flowing after the
lights so he would have been better off just waiting in line
with other traffic.

 

[Peter B]

"Adrian Boliston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
> > More info please. Was the lorry at the lights when you
> > got there or did he arrive after you?
>
> I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
> squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".

Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
squelch comes to mind.

--
Regards, Pete

 

[Tony Raven]

Peter B wrote:
>>
>> I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry
>> and squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".
>
> Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
> line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
> of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
> cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
> in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
> driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
> left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
> squelch comes to mind.

Commonest cause of cyclist deaths in London IIRC

Tony

 

[McBain_v1]

Originally posted by Andrew

Lesson one, try not to swear & gesticulate in an
offensive manner.

Lesson two, don't stop. Who knows what type of psycho he
could be? Peter Sutcliffe was a lorry driver.

Third & most important lesson. I should have got his
registration to complain to the company. He got away with it
& because I wasn't calm enough he may even think he's right.

Be safe out there.

--
Andrew

Wise words indeed.

I agree with all three of these lessons, but in particular I would pay attention to #2. You cannot know the mental state of the pillock behind the wheel. For all you know you could be about to engage in a shouting match with a martial-arts expert who is just itching to try out his latest debilitating strikes on someone - and who better than the lycra-clad cyclists who's just flipped him the bird?!

Hand gestures - tempting, but I find the best thing to do is just wave and smile. Afterall, if the idiotic motorists get het up about cyclists on the road, they are going to stress themselves into an early grave... and thereby free up road-space for cyclists

With the advent of small and cheap digital cameras (the gadget shop sells some that are the same size as a box of matches for 25 quid) it's easy to nab a quick pic of the offender and then you do not have to rely on your 'little grey cells' (as Poirot calls them) for details about make/model/registration.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <408d7445.0@entanet>, Zog The Undeniable
('[email protected]') wrote:

> andrew wrote:
>> On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
>> which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.
>>
>> I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
>> protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
>> pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a
>> horn from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I
>> was so keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.
>>
>> 200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
>> ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
>> back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
>> very scary.
>
> That's nothing...an overtaking HGV actually brushed my
> arm once.

I've had that. Worse, when cycling round one of the
roundabouts over the M6, I was overtaken very close by a
very fast moving flatbed artic with no load. My memory and
perception of the event is that I was sucked under the deck
by the air wash of the tractor unit. I have a distinct
memory of the steel hooks used to tie down the load going
past over my head. It's possible that my memory is
exaggerating hugely, but in any case it was a *very*
frightening event.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

...but have you *seen* the size of the world
wide spider?

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Adrian Boliston wrote:

> I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
> squeezed past hoping for a "bike box".

I suspect the Norbert driver resented not being first at
the lights.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

 

[Visionset]

"Adrian Boliston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> I suspect that the OP probably arrived after the lorry and
> squeezed past hoping for a "bike box". Unless the traffic
> is jammed up immediately *after* the lights there would
> seem little gain to be made by squeezing to the front of
> the queue as you simply get a silly "leapfrogging"
> situation.

"leapfrogging" is not silly it is a perfectly natural
result of two types of traffic that excel in different
situations. If you were to not overtake, then you wouldn't
get any where fast, and basically nullify all the
advantages of being on a bike.

--
Mike W

 

[Daniel Barlow]

"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> writes:

> Peter B wrote:
>> Which is never a good idea if the lorry is at the stop
>> line or maybe only a vehicle behind. They have all kinds
>> of blind spots and should the lights change whilst a
>> cyclist is halfway along the trucks length the cyclist is
>> in a very precarious position, especially if the truck
>> driver has unusally forgotton to signal before making a
>> left turn (assuming bike squeezing down the gutter),
>> squelch comes to mind.
>
> Commonest cause of cyclist deaths in London IIRC

Doesn't totally surprise me, if true. I've decided to do
what the motorbikes do, and only (well, ok, mostly) filter
on the outside.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before
you confirm"

 

[David Nutter]

Daniel Barlow <[email protected]> said:

> Doesn't totally surprise me, if true. I've decided to do
> what the motorbikes do, and only (well, ok, mostly) filter
> on the outside.

This morning, I got an earful from a cager while doing just
this. He asked "Do you know the highway code?" I replied
"Yes, do you?".

Morons, some of them. Why are they put in charge of
dangerous machinery?

Regards,

-david

 

[Jon Senior]

In article <[email protected]>, usenet-
[email protected] says...
> With the advent of small and cheap digital cameras (the
> gadget shop sells some that are the same size as a box of
> matches for 25 quid) it's easy to nab a quick pic of the
> offender and then you do not have to rely on your 'little
> grey cells' (as Poirot calls them) for details about
> make/model/registration.

As mentioned in a previous thread, Which Online have a trial
offer which includes a free digital camera. It has pretty
low resolution but should be high enough to get a number
plate, and for the weight-conscious amongst you, it weighs a
whopping 21g.

I'm currently working on the mounting which will fit onto my
handlebars, and then I'll test it properly. Since it was
free, I have no qualms about taking the box apart, and
wiring the shutter switch to a button on the drops!

Jon

 

[McBain_v1]

Originally posted by Jon Senior
As mentioned in a previous thread, Which Online have a trial
offer which includes a free digital camera. It has pretty
low resolution but should be high enough to get a number
plate, and for the weight-conscious amongst you, it weighs a
whopping 21g.

I'm currently working on the mounting which will fit onto my
handlebars, and then I'll test it properly. Since it was
free, I have no qualms about taking the box apart, and
wiring the shutter switch to a button on the drops!

Jon

That sounds an excellent idea, although I guess you will have only the most rudimentary idea about framing. I'm sure someone mentioned a digital camera that had a separate lens assembly that was small enough to mount on the arm of your specs, whils the actual storage unit was remote and could be stored in your jersey pocket. That sounded brilliant until I saw it was about £400!

 

[Andrew]

In answer to your various posts, sorry I've been so long
"andrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On my usual commute there is a badly designed junction
> which has no bike box. Poor really as it is brand new.

I know there is no bike box. The Norbert was there & I
rode past him as the lights were at red. The junction is
effectively a large T junction with a dual carriage way
turning into another dual carriage way. I was turning
right and at the lights there are four lanes, two left &
two right. Given I would have to sit in lane three I do
not think it is safer (or quicker ) than avoiding the
"leap frog".

http://www.multimap.com/p/browse.cgi?local=h&scale=5000-
&gride=429828.406162133&gridn=433981.453927169

I have come down South Accomadation Road & turn right onto
Hunslet Road. Norbert passed me just before Leathley Road
where there is another set of lights.

>
> I followed my normal practice of going over the stop line
> protected by an extended kerb / refuge & watching the
> pedestrian crossings. As I did so I heard a toot of a horn
> from behind. I guessed it was from the 38 tonner I was so
> keen to avoid & waved back with an open hand.

I do this as I do not like starting from still with Norbet
anxious to make his delivery & the envitable wobble you get
setting off. There is too much pressure and not enough room
to wait on the line.

>
> 200m down the road the same Norbert Dresangle comes
> ploughing past & although he pulls out at the front cuts
> back in so I am less than an arm span away at the back,
> very scary.

As it is a T junction I can't see the state of the traffic,
so another good reason to pass him.

> He is out of the cab & effing & blinding. He tells me that
> I should have stopped & the line & I answer back.
> Somewhere along the line he call me a cnut & threatens
> violence. Laughable he tells me to read the highway code
&
> only later realise I could have told him to read the
> sections of use of
the
> horn & room for cyclists.

Given the first thing Norbert mentioned was going through
the red light (as he saw it I didn't actually) I think he
was ****** off at that & decided that he was the law. He did
not mention me shouting or gesticulating.

> Third & most important lesson. I should have got his
> registration to complain to the company. He got away with
> it & because I wasn't calm
enough
> he may even think he's right.

I have emailed Norbert & expect to here nothing.

Andrew