Road Rage

Discussion in 'Triathlon' started by Cliff, Apr 20, 2003.

  1. Cliff

    Cliff Guest

    Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out his
    car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.

    Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a left
    hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.

    I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...

    Questions:

    1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?

    -- Cliff
     
    Tags:


  2. [email protected] (Cliff) wrote in news:55f525b6.0304201458.34f775b8 @posting.google.com:

    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?

    Possibly, but it's a good insanity!

    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?

    Yes.

    >
    > -- Cliff
    >

    We have a 40 mile loop we sometimes ride here. On the beach portion we ride next to a
    bike/pedestrian path. It is rare not to have someone yell at to get on the bike path. The problem
    is, that's not where a cyclist running along at 20mph or so should be. There's sand blown accross
    the path, people walking dogs on leashes, and around 100 driveways and 40 side streets that cross
    the bike path. We usually ignore the offending motorist. I did have one guy slow down and match pace
    with me, roll down his window and say "Do you have a problem with the bike path or something?" I
    said "Yep," and just stared at him. I guess he hadn't rehearsed a snappy answer, because he just
    drove off.
     
  3. Doom

    Doom Guest

    In north america, fossil fuel oxidation takes precedence over human powered endeavours. Thus, you
    will receive little to no respect while riding on this excuse of a continent. My advice: move to the
    holy land (europe).

    --
    --------------------------
    Andre Charlebois BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+ webmaster for Triathlon New Brunswick www.TriNB.com "Cliff"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    >
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    > should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    > cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?
    >
    > -- Cliff
     
  4. Jkmsg

    Jkmsg Guest

    [email protected] (Cliff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    >
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    > should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    > cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?

    Insane... that's a bit harsh. But, if you have no other options then you just have to be careful

    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?

    In theory (at least in most states), yes. The reality is that most cars don't know that you have the
    same rights as a car. The bigger reality is that they out weigh you by a few thousand pounds.

    >
    > -- Cliff

    The good news is that the driver noticed you... insults and all... I don't mind being honk at.
    It only indicates they see me. And, I always ride within the law... when it's reasonable do so
    (that is).

    FWIW Joe Moya
     
  5. Yes and definitely Yes

    "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    >
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    > should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    > cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?
    >
    > -- Cliff
     
  6. Chris Maginn

    Chris Maginn Guest

    I both bike and drive in San Francisco....some bike commuters in SF can be just as big of assholes
    as some drivers. I had a commuter on a bike cut me off the other day and then jaw with me about it.
    As much as idiots in cars who honk, and turn right in front of you piss me off when I'm on a bike,
    it seems there's also some on 2 wheels who can be just as bad (at least in SF).

    "Frank Tantillo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Yes and definitely Yes
    >
    >
    > "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    > >
    > > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    > >
    > > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road
    > > and should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels
    > > near cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    > >
    > > Questions:
    > >
    > > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    > > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?
    > >
    > > -- Cliff
     
  7. You idiot you could've gotten yourself and others killed. Stay over on the right unless you have a
    death wish.

    [email protected] (Cliff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    >
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    > should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    > cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?
    >
    > -- Cliff
     
  8. Eric Smith

    Eric Smith Guest

    [email protected] (Cliff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.

    I can't speak for the laws where you are - but in the states that I have lived in (VA, MA, and NY),
    bicycles have to follow the same laws that cars do. It is illegal for them to be on the sidewalks or
    through crosswalks unless the riders dismount and walk the bike, effectively becoming anohter
    pedestrian.

    So that would mean that the driver was wrong in that you shouldn't have been up on the sidewalk...
    But it would then also mean that you were in the wrong for going the wrong direction against
    traffic. Were you in a car and you saw a car doing the same thing that you did on the bike, you too
    likely wouldn't have been too psyched.

    That said, I don't personally see anything with what you did (aside from the whole legal side).

    In VA I was hit by a car once, mostly my fault - I was going with traffic up a hill. (I also hit a
    car once... a parked car - it was parked illegally and I had the option of me hitting a moving
    garbage truck in traffic, me hitting a parked car partly on the sidewalk and partly in the road, or
    I had the choice of going up onto the sidewalk and hitting an elderly couple. I chose what I figured
    would be the least life threatening, and the lowest cost to me in court. It hurt, but nobody else
    was hurt and I survived. The parts of VA I was in were pretty bicycle agnostic (Blacksburg and
    Harrisonburg).

    In NY I was hit by a car 2 times. On the same road, same spot. Same time of day - but different days
    in the same month. The first time it was a Camero/Firebird type car - they purposely sideswiped me
    into a construction site. I hit a big pile of sand and flipped into it. No real injuries. The next
    time was the same spot, but a big black pickup truck. That time I missed a majority of the
    construction site, but went down a flight of concrete steps - upright on the bike. Scary, but no
    injuries. This was in Rochester NY. I ended up getting a helmet mirror to deal with it and near the
    same spot after that, I noticed in the mirror a car coming towards me with a guy starting to lean
    out the window - I don't know what he was going to do, but I figured it didn't bode well for me - so
    I picked up my water bottle and then watched the mirror - as they got close, I pressed as far away
    from them as I could and sprayed the guy with the water bottle. They didn't stop and I was glad to
    be done riding that summer.

    From my experience with it all (largely commuting - no real racing experience at all), I would say
    assume that the cars can't see you at all and you have a good start.
     
  9. Eric Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
    >[email protected] (Cliff) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    >> left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    >I can't speak for the laws where you are - but in the states that I have lived in (VA, MA, and NY),
    >bicycles have to follow the same laws that cars do. It is illegal for them to be on the sidewalks
    >or through crosswalks unless the riders dismount and walk the bike, effectively becoming anohter
    >pedestrian.
    >
    >So that would mean that the driver was wrong in that you shouldn't have been up on the sidewalk...
    >But it would then also mean that you

    Uh, Eric, how the heck did you get the idea he was on the sidewalk. He was in traffic, in the #1
    lane, preparing to make a left turn. This is exactly how it should be done, but since he is probably
    moving slower than the speeding cars, he ran into a jerk.
    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  10. Eric Smith

    Eric Smith Guest

    [email protected] (Jason O'Rourke) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Uh, Eric, how the heck did you get the idea he was on the sidewalk. He was in traffic, in the #1
    > lane, preparing to make a left turn. This is exactly how it should be done, but since he is
    > probably moving slower than the speeding cars, he ran into a jerk.

    Sorry - I misread it as he was coming down the left against traffic.

    As for the sidewalk - that was what a driver had yelled at him and caused the angst in the first
    place. Hence the comment in that the driver was in the wrong.

    In the end, yup - sounds like he was doing everything right.
     
  11. Cliff

    Cliff Guest

    [email protected] (Eric Smith) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Jason O'Rourke) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Uh, Eric, how the heck did you get the idea he was on the sidewalk. He was in traffic, in the #1
    > > lane, preparing to make a left turn. This is exactly how it should be done, but since he is
    > > probably moving slower than the speeding cars, he ran into a jerk.
    >
    > Sorry - I misread it as he was coming down the left against traffic.
    >
    > As for the sidewalk - that was what a driver had yelled at him and caused the angst in the first
    > place. Hence the comment in that the driver was in the wrong.
    >
    > In the end, yup - sounds like he was doing everything right.

    Well, I thought I was in the right, but maybe "Dead Right" is a less than desireable place to be. I
    think I'm going to make bicycle lanes my personal crusade for the next few years.

    -- Cliff
     
  12. Cliff <[email protected]om> wrote:
    >Well, I thought I was in the right, but maybe "Dead Right" is a less than desireable place to be. I
    >think I'm going to make bicycle lanes my personal crusade for the next few years.

    That's not a solution, Cliff. Then every time this asshole sees you, instead of shouting 'get back
    on the sidewalk,' he'll scream 'get back

    Bicyclists are better served by roads with adequete shoulders, rather than bike lane routes that go
    no where we want to go.

    --
    Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
     
  13. Witheld

    Witheld Guest

    [email protected] (Jason O'Rourke) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... <SNIP-SNIP>
    > That's not a solution, Cliff. Then every time this asshole sees you, instead of shouting 'get back
    > on the sidewalk,' he'll scream 'get back

    >
    > Bicyclists are better served by roads with adequete shoulders, rather than bike lane routes that
    > go no where we want to go.

    We don't really have bike lanes in Atlanta, but I have noticed them elsewhere. What I have seen is
    that automobiles use them as an extension of parking lots.

    That is, when leaving a parking lot, drivers edge all the way into the bike lane, while waiting for
    a gap in traffic. Sometimes they have to do this to improve their view. I suspect that other drivers
    are just not thinking when they do this.

    I think bike lanes were developed with [low speed] bike-commuters in mind.

    Maybe it is me? I think that the "wider" you make the road or the larger you make the car, the less
    disciplined drivers tend to be in managing their vehicle/speed within the lane. When you make a bike
    lane, many drivers "absorb" it as part of the driving lane. This is especially true of heavy
    equipment: cement mixers, logging trucks, cranes etc.

    rsquared
     
  14. Dave Kother

    Dave Kother Guest

    I don't know what state you live in, but in NJ, bicycles have the same rights as well as the same
    responsibilities as cars on the road. Many, many automobile drivers do not realize this, and feel
    the same way that guy did. However, riding on the left against traffic is technically illegal, and I
    feel dangerous. I have ridden in traffic quite a lot, and the first thing to keep in mind is your
    safety. After that, you can travel just as the motor vehicles do, signalling as you go.

    Be safe and enjoy the road!

    "Cliff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Today I was finishing up a great workout on the bike when out of the blue this a--hole yells out
    > his car window to me "Get on the Sidewalk, will ya!" as he blows by at mach-3.
    >
    > Now I'll admit I was going down a hill on the left side of the traffic lane preparing to make a
    > left hand turn, but I thought I had a legal right to be on the road.
    >
    > I am pretty bold about riding in traffic and have always felt that as long as I obey the traffic
    > laws and give flagrant hand signals, I was within my rights as a bike rider to be on the road and
    > should be "reasonably" safe. I also rode a motorcycle for many years so being on two wheels near
    > cars doesn't particularly freak me out, but this incident started me wondering...
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > 1. Am I insane for jeopardizing my life by riding in traffic?
    > 2. Do I have an equal legal right to be on the open road with cars?
    >
    > -- Cliff
     
  15. Xeys

    Xeys New Member

    Joined:
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    Could you claim you were legally defending yourself if you carry a firearm on the road? If a car tried to kill you by running you over or swiping, you could pull your gun... I know it doesn't make particular sense, but that's what I feel like doing sometimes. I'd like to take a whole lane on a 2 or 3 lane road, but i'm pretty sure they would run me flat over. But sometimes, I feel realy awkward trying to ride in a 6 inch width next to the road and some idiot goes *right* by me doing 80.

    Cecil
     
  16. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    "Xeys" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | Could you claim you were legally defending yourself if you carry a firearm on the road? If a car
    | tried to kill you by running you over or swiping, you could pull your gun... I know it doesn't
    | make particular sense, but that's what I feel like doing sometimes. I'd like to take a whole lane
    | on a 2 or 3 lane road, but i'm pretty sure they would run me flat over. But sometimes, I feel
    | realy awkward trying to ride in a 6 inch width next to the road and some idiot goes *right* by me
    | doing 80.
    |
    | Cecil
    Carrying a gun is one thing, pulling it another, using it: quite another thing. I am not a legal
    expert, but I believe most sucsessful legal defenses of using a gun(or any deadly weapon) for
    protection must first prove you were thrown into a life threatening situation where fleeing was not
    an option. Going into a bar, starting a fight, and then shooting someone to protect yourself because
    it is what you ".....feel like doing sometimes..." is probably, and rightfully going to bring great
    criminal, and civil problems to you. And now that you've publicly announced your idea, in the event
    you actually do something, you could be accused of premeditation..... Shooting at a car, after it
    has passed(threat ended) is a no-no. Arguing that shooting at a car (even pulling a gun),was the
    most effective way to avoid the danger of the oncoming car-as opposed to taking evasive action while
    riding-is an argument I'd like to hear. Further, imagine you're the motorist driving
    along...someone-bicyclist/ pedestrian- on the side of the road, in front of you is pointing/shooting
    a gun at you....What is a reasonable thing to do to protect yourself?...

    As you wrote: "...it doesn't make particular sense..." Personally, if I had to consider such
    actions, I'd find another road. ED3
     
  17. Witheld

    Witheld Guest

    I believe most cyclists who "pack heat" do so more for fear of drivers than fear of the cars. I am
    talking about the guy who stops, gets out of his car, and seeks a violent confrontation.

    I have been cycling in Atlanta for almost twenty years. Although the quality of cycling continues to
    deteriorate, the scenario I presented above has been EXTREMELY rare. I feel far more threatened by
    negligence than malevolence. A gun can't help me there! : )

    I own a handgun; I also have a permit to carry it. I would NOT consider carrying it on a bike ride.

    Your judgement and circumstances may lead you to do otherwise. Before you carry, please show the
    responsibility and maturity to take a safety course - - even if the law does not require it.

    If you do choose to carry a firearm on a bike ride, I think any fellow cyclists are morally
    entitled to know about it. I am not talking about "showing off". There is inherent risk, and they
    should know.

    Carrying a gun will not give you "comfort". If anything, it adds a new dimension of stress. You
    begin to worry how every interaction will play out; it is impossible to relax.

    Too many people think that they can end a confrontation by raising the muzzle in order to
    intimidate. Unfortunately, it can and does keep escalating from there.

    I have made my decision; some of the points I mention here factored into it. You will have to make
    your own decision.

    rsquared

    Some general remarks not specifically directed towards:

    "Edward Dike, III" <[email protected]> wrote in message > Shooting at a car, after it
    has passed(threat ended) is a no-no.
    > Arguing that shooting at a car (even pulling a gun),was the most effective way to avoid the danger
    > of the oncoming car-as opposed to taking evasive action while riding-is an argument I'd like to
    > hear. Further, imagine you're the motorist driving along...someone-bicyclist/ pedestrian- on the
    > side of the road, in front of you is pointing/shooting a gun at you....What is a reasonable thing
    > to do to protect yourself?...
    >
    > As you wrote: "...it doesn't make particular sense..." Personally, if I had to consider such
    > actions, I'd find another road. ED3
     
  18. Xeys

    Xeys New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Messages:
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    I merely just released some steam. In no way would I advocate this. Actually, building goodwill with drivers everywhere could save your life one day. I understand this. I also know that were someone to actually do it, they would be presenting a danger to themselves as well as countless numbers of athletes who may oneday have to deal with this same driver. I was merely blowing off some steam...

    ps... I wish the weather would make up it's mind... rain or shine, which is it???
     
  19. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Xeys <[email protected]yclingforums.com> wrote:

    > I merely just released some steam. In no way would I advocate this. Actually, building goodwill
    > with drivers everywhere could save your life one day. I understand this. I also know that were
    > someone to actually do it, they would be presenting a danger to themselves as well as countless
    > numbers of athletes who may oneday have to deal with this same driver. I was merely blowing off
    > some steam...

    I missed the start of this thread, but lately I've been going out of my way to give a courtesy wave
    to drivers who yield to me when I have right of way or who otherwise do things that make it safer
    for me to be on my bike around them. I still, however, always assume the driver will do the
    stupidest thing possible.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
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