Road tire life span



M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
cheg wrote:

> I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road bike
> and lost the front one to a sidewall blowout last week. I
> noticed that he rear tire is worn through most of the
> tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I replaced them
> both. Is that a reasonable life span for quality tires?
> I'm curious how often people normally replace tires.

A normal life span is at least 2000, and probably closer to
3000 miles, for modern, road-race-oriented tires. Durability-
oriented tires last longer than that, but may not be as fast
or smooth.

Some tires have very thin tread, in the interests of low
weight and rolling resistance. But this kind of gram-shaving
is silly -- some of the fastest tires are also the most
durable. Note the RR and durablity results cited for
Avocets, for example.

With all the touble people seem to have with Continentals, I
don't understand why they continue to buy them. I see Contis
with frayed sidewalls all the time, held together with Shoe
Goo. Thse people ride the same roads as I do, and I never
have tire trouble.

I've been very happy with the Vittoria Open Corsa CX. They
came with my bike, and I thought they were fragile race
tires that I'd wear out or destroy soon. This has proven not
to be the case. I have about 2000 miles on them now, with
just one puncture, no cuts, and the rear is just starting to
square off. They look like they'll go another 500-1000
miles. They're some of the best riding, fastest tires I've
ever used. No problems in the wet either. It's very hilly
around here, with lots of rough pavement, which can be hard
on tires. I'd definately buy the Vittorias again, but only
on sale (they're expensive).

My friend uses Hutchinson Carbon Comps, and gets maybe 2000
miles out of them. But he buys them on sale for under $20
each. Nashbar has had some pretty good tires on sale lately
for as little as $10-15 -- Panaracer, etc. If your tires
will be destroyed by cuts anyway, it probably makes no sense
to pay for extra tread life.

Michelin Carbon are advertised as durable and cut resistant,
as well as fast and comfortable. 3500-4000 miles for $30-35,
and widely available. Anyone using these?

Matt O.
 
R

Rick Onanian

Guest
>"Rick Onanian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I like Carbon Comps, but I'm under no illusion as to
>> their wear. I wore a rear in 600 miles.
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:48:12 -0400, "Dave"
<[email protected]> top-posted:
>Wow. 600 miles? I used mine for about 300 miles to break
>them in for the Cross Florida Race (a 170 miler) this year,
>in April, and have put on about another 1000 since then,
>and no sign of a flat spot developing at all on the rear
>wheel....

I weigh 210 pounds and inflate to the max, 125psi. The roads
I ride aren't terribly dirty, nor terribly clean. I only
flatted that tire once (that I remember), after whacking a
curb broke the presta valve.

After 600 miles, there was a flat spot that may have been
from when I test rode the bike before buying; I had
skidded a little bit avoiding a car. The tread is riddled
with very small cuts, and one such cut was in the middle
of said flat spot, and the tube pushed through just enough
to leak quickly.

I think, if I want to spend the time and effort, I can
repair the tire with various glues, liquid-applied rubbers,
and patches/boots. Some day, I might actually do it; I've
kept the tire for that purpose. I've got a collection of
stuff with which to do it -- shoe goo, rtv silicone gasket
stuff, superglue, heavy-duty automotive radial tire patches,
contact cement, superglue, and so on.
--
Rick Onanian
 
R

Russell Seaton

Guest
"cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s01>...
> "Russell Seaton" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]_s04>...
> > > I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road
> > > bike and lost the
> front
> > > one to a sidewall blowout last week. I noticed that he
> > > rear tire is worn
> through
> > > most of the tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I
> > > replaced them both. Is that a reasonable life span for
> > > quality tires? I'm curious how often people normally
> > > replace tires.
> >
> > That is awful mileage. I have used 700Cx23mm Continental
> > Ultra Gatorskin tires on one set of wheels since August
> > 2001. In that time they have ridden across North Dakota,
> > North Carolina, Wisconsin, Colorado, and Kansas. Plus a
> > couple 200km brevets and one or maybe two 300km brevets.
> > Plus a few training miles. Probably 4,000 total miles.
> > Give or take. Front looks fine. Rear is squared off a
> > bit but not too bad. My Gatorskin tires have some extra
> > strong coating on the sidewalls to reduce cuts
> > significantly. I weigh 200 pounds.
>
> The tires say "Duraskin K" on them but the sidewalls seem
> very thin and flexible compared to the Specialized tires
> I've used in the past.

Yes the Continental Ultra Gatorskin tires say Duraskin K on
the sidewall. I'm guessing its some kind of kevlar coating.
It is much more durable than regular Continental sidewalls.

Odd that in the old days bike tire companies would brag
about how flexible their sidewalls were. They would say they
used silk or 290 strands of cotton or such things. And now
thick unflexible sidewalls are in vogue.
 
B

Bill Lloyd

Guest
On 2004-06-17 08:52:40 -0700, [email protected] (Russell Seaton) said:

> "cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]_s01>...
>> "Russell Seaton" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]_s04>...
>>>> I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road
>>>> bike and lost the
>> front
>>>> one to a sidewall blowout last week. I noticed that he
>>>> rear tire is worn
>> through
>>>> most of the tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I
>>>> replaced them both. Is that a reasonable life span for
>>>> quality tires? I'm curious how often people normally
>>>> replace tires.
>>>
>>> That is awful mileage. I have used 700Cx23mm Continental
>>> Ultra Gatorskin tires on one set of wheels since August
>>> 2001. In that time they have ridden across North Dakota,
>>> North Carolina, Wisconsin, Colorado, and Kansas. Plus a
>>> couple 200km brevets and one or maybe two 300km brevets.
>>> Plus a few training miles. Probably 4,000 total miles.
>>> Give or take. Front looks fine. Rear is squared off a
>>> bit but not too bad. My Gatorskin tires have some extra
>>> strong coating on the sidewalls to reduce cuts
>>> significantly. I weigh 200 pounds.
>>
>> The tires say "Duraskin K" on them but the sidewalls seem
>> very thin and flexible compared to the Specialized tires
>> I've used in the past.
>
> Yes the Continental Ultra Gatorskin tires say Duraskin K
> on the sidewall. I'm guessing its some kind of kevlar
> coating. It is much more durable than regular Continental
> sidewalls.
>
> Odd that in the old days bike tire companies would brag
> about how flexible their sidewalls were. They would say
> they used silk or 290 strands of cotton or such things.
> And now thick unflexible sidewalls are in vogue.

Maybe for flat resistance, but not for the "goodness" of
having stiff sidewalls.
 
B

Bill Lloyd

Guest
On 2004-06-16 05:52:46 -0700, "cheg" <[email protected]> said:

> I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road bike
> and lost the front one to a sidewall blowout last week. I
> noticed that he rear tire is worn through most of the
> tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I replaced them
> both. Is that a reasonable life span for quality tires?
> I'm curious how often people normally replace tires.

Contis are among the longest wearing tires, if you get the
carbon black ones. I'd regularly get 4000 miles on a super
sport rear tire. Front tire life is essentially infinite --
it could go 20,000 miles or more but typically you'd blow a
sidewall first.

I get maybe 3000 miles out of Vredesteins (the black ones),
and maybe 2000-2500 out of Ritchey Race tires (the nylon
ones, not the $60 "open" ones which I don't like the
handling of).

Your front wheel sidewall blowout was not due to wear -- you
either hit something, scrubbed it pretty good, or did
something else.

To avoid the front tire staying on for 3 years and rotting,
I usually rotate the front tire to the back, once I wear out
the rear. And I put new tires on the front.
 
B

Booker C . Bens

Guest
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]_s51>, cheg
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> cheg <[email protected]> wrote:
>> : I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road
>> : bike and lost the
>front
>> : one to a sidewall blowout last week. I noticed that he
>> : rear tire is worn
>through
>> : most of the tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I
>> : replaced them both. Is that a reasonable life span for
>> : quality tires? I'm curious how often people normally
>> : replace tires.
>>
>> How much do you weight, what width are the tyres and to
>> what pressure do you inflate them?
>
>
>155 lbs, 32 mm, 110 psi.
>
>

_ That seems really high for a tire that big and your
weight. Overinflating tires will wear them out faster, makes
the ride harser and generally has no positive benfits.

http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

is a good reference.

_ Booker C. Bense

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M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
Bill Lloyd wrote:

> Contis are among the longest wearing tires, if you get the
> carbon black ones.

How do you know which is which? Even the black ones have
silica instead these days, but with black coloring instead
of gray or whatever.

Matt O.
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
"Dave" <[email protected]> writes:

> Point is, many Conti models are not known for long life.
> The 3000's wear in about 200 miles or less around here (a
> buddy of mine rides em...)

The 2000 mile correction make *far* more sense.

The Conti 3000's are made with a non-carbon based rubber,
some sort of silicon based rubber. This rubber usually gives
lousy traction in the rain, but makes up for it by wearing
out much faster than carbon-based rubber. As a bonus, silica-
rubber tires usually cost more. You can tell I think these
are not good tires.

I use carbon rubber based tires, and as I said I usually get
about 3000 miles to a rear tire. I weigh a stubborn 215 lbs.
I suspect that road surface quality and how much climbing
you do affects tire wear. I found that my rear tire wore
much more quickly riding in the Alps than on the short hills
around the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.
 
A

Arthur Clune

Guest
cheg <[email protected]> wrote:

: 155 lbs, 32 mm, 110 psi.

I assume you mean 23mm here? If not, that's way too high
pressure for 32mm tyres. 90 PSI max would be more suitable.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook
 
C

Cheg

Guest
"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> cheg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : 155 lbs, 32 mm, 110 psi.
>
> I assume you mean 23mm here? If not, that's way too high
> pressure for 32mm
tyres.
> 90 PSI max would be more suitable.
>
> Arthur
>

No, it's 32 mm (27"x1-1/4" to be precise).

110 psi is too high in what sense? They are not
uncomfortable to ride at that pressure.
 
C

Cheg

Guest
"Booker C. Bense"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> In article <[email protected]_s51>, cheg
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...

> >> How much do you weight, what width are the tyres and to
> >> what pressure do
you
> >> inflate them?
> >
> >
> >155 lbs, 32 mm, 110 psi.
> >
> >
>
> _ That seems really high for a tire that big and your
> weight. Overinflating tires will wear them out faster,
> makes the ride harser and generally has no positive
> benfits.
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
>
> is a good reference.

Why does higher pressure increase wear rate? As far as the
ride, the smoothness of the ride is the one notable thing
about Gatorskins that makes me want to continue using them
so I don't find them harsh at all. According to Jobst
Brandt's measured data higher pressure = lower rolling
resistance, which could be considered a positive benefit. I
don't know how significant the gain is compared to
aerodynamic drag and other mechanical losses, though.
 
B

Booker C . Bens

Guest
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]_s51>, cheg
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Booker C. Bense" <[email protected]
>mark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> In article <[email protected]_s51>, cheg
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>
>> >> How much do you weight, what width are the tyres and
>> >> to what pressure do
>you
>> >> inflate them?
>> >
>> >
>> >155 lbs, 32 mm, 110 psi.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _ That seems really high for a tire that big and your
>> weight. Overinflating tires will wear them out faster,
>> makes the ride harser and generally has no positive
>> benfits.
>>
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
>>
>> is a good reference.
>
>
>Why does higher pressure increase wear rate?

_ Less of the tire contacts the road.

> As far as the ride, the smoothness of the ride is the one
> notable thing about Gatorskins that makes me want to
> continue using them so I don't find them harsh at all.

_ I think there is a typo in your message since I can't find
any evidence that gatorskins come in 32mm width. For a 23mm
width tire and your weight, 110 is probably about right...

According to Jobst
>Brandt's measured data higher pressure = lower rolling
>resistance, which could be considered a positive benefit. I
>don't know how significant the gain is compared to
>aerodynamic drag and other mechanical losses, though.

_ My own philosophy is to keep the tire pressure as low as
is safe and avoids pinch flats. For me road comfort in a 3
or 4 hour ride is much more important than speed.

_ Booker C. Bense

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T

Tc

Guest
"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> cheg wrote:
>
> > I have been running Conti Ultra Gatorskins on my road
> > bike and lost the front one to a sidewall blowout last
> > week. I noticed that he rear tire is worn through most
> > of the tread pattern after about 1400 miles so I
> > replaced them both. Is that a reasonable life span for
> > quality tires? I'm curious how often people normally
> > replace tires.
>
> A normal life span is at least 2000, and probably closer
> to 3000 miles, for modern, road-race-oriented tires. Durability-
> oriented tires last longer than that, but may not be as
> fast or smooth.
>
> Some tires have very thin tread, in the interests of low
> weight and rolling resistance. But this kind of gram-
> shaving is silly -- some of the fastest tires are also the
> most durable. Note the RR and durablity results cited for
> Avocets, for example.
>
> With all the touble people seem to have with Continentals,
> I don't understand why they continue to buy them. I see
> Contis with frayed sidewalls all the time, held together
> with Shoe Goo. Thse people ride the same roads as I do,
> and I never have tire trouble.
>
> I've been very happy with the Vittoria Open Corsa CX. They
> came with my bike, and I thought they were fragile race
> tires that I'd wear out or destroy soon. This has proven
> not to be the case. I have about 2000 miles on them now,
> with just one puncture, no cuts, and the rear is just
> starting to square off. They look like they'll go another
> 500-1000 miles. They're some of the best riding, fastest
> tires I've ever used. No problems in the wet either. It's
> very hilly around here, with lots of rough pavement, which
> can be hard on tires. I'd definately buy the Vittorias
> again, but only on sale (they're expensive).
>
> My friend uses Hutchinson Carbon Comps, and gets maybe
> 2000 miles out of them. But he buys them on sale for under
> $20 each. Nashbar has had some pretty good tires on sale
> lately for as little as $10-15 -- Panaracer, etc. If your
> tires will be destroyed by cuts anyway, it probably makes
> no sense to pay for extra tread life.
>
> Michelin Carbon are advertised as durable and cut
> resistant, as well as fast and comfortable. 3500-
> 4000 miles for $30-35, and widely available. Anyone
> using these?
>
> Matt O.

Your mileage estimates might be reasonable where you
live,but they're way too high for my part of the country.
I live in the mountains of Northern California, where if
you're not climbing it's because you're descending in a
hurry. Add to that the "cheese-grater" chip-and-seal roads
around here and my Open Corsa CX on the back lasted about
1000 miles before the casing started peeking through.
Glass and other urban debris aren't typically a problem
out here, but "modern, race-oriented tires" tend to go no
more than 1000-1500 miles assuming nothing untoward
happens to them. I killed a pair of IRC Paperlites in less
than a thousand miles.

My point is that tire wear varies greatly by use, and if you
spend better than 50% of your ride time climbing (not at all
unusual out here) on rough chip-and-seal, then mileage
plummets. I'm testing a pair of 25c Michelin Carbons on my
old 84 Paramount, but haven't ridden that bike enough lately
to guess the mileage. At 700 miles, the back is already
starting to square some.

It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the
nicest handling tires I've used, but they go away so
quickly and they're so expensive that I'm looking for
something else.

TC
 
P

Pete Grey

Guest
I ride Gatorskins in the winter, 700x25's around the same
pressure, maybe more like 115. I get similar mileage from
them, and I weigh in about 165lb.

My Conti GP 3000's only last about 1000mi in the summer
months on my faster bike.

I consider both of these reasonable, for the good ride and
handling from the Conti's. I have had one (1) sidewall
problem in using them for nearly 14 years now, YMMV. I
also consider that reasonable, I think Conti has gotten a
bad rap from a few of these cases being made public, I'd
guess that other manufacturers have had the same problem
from time-to-time.

I've tried other longer-wearing tires a few times over the
years, and I'm not switching:-]

-pete

"cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s54...
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Depends on the tire characteristics, your riding style,
> > road surface material and climate, just like car tires.
> > Grippier tires will wear
earlier
> > because of the softer compound. Hot climate will
> > certainly wear tires faster; if you do a lot of hard
> > pedaling or fast club rides, chances are you're
> > putting more road friction on the tires, and for
> > example, here in
S
> > Florida, many of the road surfaces we ride on have hard
> > coral mixed into
the
> > asphalt, so it can be harder on tires too. You need to
> > look at what
you're
> > doing to your tires.
> >
> > BTW, 1400 miles is not bad wear for a set of tires,
> > again depending on
the
> > conditions. If you had said 400 miles, I'd have really
> > wondered. I
like
> > Hutchinson Carbon Comp tires. They wear very well, but
> > still have good
fast
> > cornering characteristics (I use em in crits, but I'm
> > only Cat 4, so
we're
> > not cornering at 30+) and pliable enough (even at
> > 140PSI) that on long rides, I don't start cursing
> > them out.
> >
> > Hope this helped....
> >
>
> This is in Seattle, certainly not a hot climate by your
> standards. We have
hills
> instead :)
>
> The compound of the Ultra Gatorskins does seem softer than
> other tires
I've
> used. I don't ride particularly fast, though. I average
> about 200 miles a
week,
> mostly commuting in the 15-17 mph range.
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Tom Chandler writes:

> It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the
> nicest handling tires I've used, but they go away so
> quickly and they're so expensive that I'm looking for
> something else.

How do you whether one tire handles better than another
since traction is either there or not on pavement. There is
no tire squeal or side-slip although writers to this
newsgroup sometimes describe their cornering as drifting in
curves. This does not occur. Besides that, chip seal, the
most abrasive, roads have poorer traction than concrete or
hot-mix asphalt roads.

http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/streets/chipsealprogram.cfm

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
C

carlfogel

Guest
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:31:38 GMT,
[email protected] wrote:

>Tom Chandler writes:
>
>> It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the
>> nicest handling tires I've used, but they go away so
>> quickly and they're so expensive that I'm looking for
>> something else.
>
>How do you whether one tire handles better than another
>since traction is either there or not on pavement. There is
>no tire squeal or side-slip although writers to this
>newsgroup sometimes describe their cornering as drifting in
>curves. This does not occur. Besides that, chip seal, the
>most abrasive, roads have poorer traction than concrete or
>hot-mix asphalt roads.
>
>http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/streets/chipsealprogram.cfm
>
>Jobst Brandt [email protected]

Dear Jobst,

Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
pavement more often with poorer handling tires?

It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can
tell whether one tire handles better than another in terms
of traction?

Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question "How
do you [?] whether one tire handles better than another . .
." seems rhetorical.

So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

Carl Fogel
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Carl Fogel writes:

>>> It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the
>>> nicest handling tires I've used, but they go away so
>>> quickly and they're so expensive that I'm looking for
>>> something else.

>> How do you [know] whether one tire handles better than
>> another since traction is either there or not on
>> pavement. There is no tire squeal or side-slip, although
>> writers to this newsgroup sometimes describe their
>> cornering as drifting in curves. This does not occur.
>> Besides that, chip seal, the most abrasive, roads have
>> poorer traction than concrete or hot-mix asphalt roads.

> Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
> pavement more often with poorer handling tires?

Maybe shmaybe, let the man speak for himself. You don't have
to hold his hand.

> It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can
> tell whether one tire handles better than another in terms
> of traction?

Unless it is a knobby tire (not a road tire of the kind in
question) there is no perceptible difference in handling
until is washes out in a curve, something that occurs with
colored tires on wet roads. It is not something you prefer
to test but it has been done both in situ and on the tire
testing machine I once designed for Avocet to measure
maximum lean angle for tires.

> Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question
> "How do you [?] whether one tire handles better than
> another . . ." seems rhetorical.

That may be so in your estimation but I didn't ask you.

> So how do you tell if one tire handles better than
> another?

You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests
on a 16ft long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle
until the bicycle slid. This was done at low speed and with
protective clothing. There was a difference among tires
tested. That was a few years ago.

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
R

Ross

Guest
My rear Conti GP 3000 got 5000 miles on it before I bought a
new one. I put the new one on the front and the front one on
the rear, so now the rear has 6000 on it. I weigh 160 and
ride in the Texas Hill country in San Antonio. I'm a fanatic
about keeping an eye on my bike and it's various wears and
tears and only replaced the rear when it got that flattened
out look. Upon removal I checked the rubber remaining by
just feeling it and while there was a difference (obviously)
from the new tire to the old one, the old one had worn
pretty regular.

Ross

"Pete Grey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I ride Gatorskins in the winter, 700x25's around the same
> pressure, maybe more like 115. I get similar mileage from
> them, and I weigh in about 165lb.
>
> My Conti GP 3000's only last about 1000mi in the summer
> months on my
faster
> bike.
>
> I consider both of these reasonable, for the good ride and
> handling from
the
> Conti's. I have had one (1) sidewall problem in using them
> for nearly 14 years now, YMMV. I also consider that
> reasonable, I think Conti has gotten a bad rap from a few
> of these cases being made public, I'd guess that other
> manufacturers have had the same problem from time-to-time.
>
> I've tried other longer-wearing tires a few times over the
> years, and I'm not switching:-]
>
> -pete
>
> "cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s54...
> >
> > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Depends on the tire characteristics, your riding
> > > style, road surface material and climate, just like
> > > car tires. Grippier tires will wear
> earlier
> > > because of the softer compound. Hot climate will
> > > certainly wear tires faster; if you do a lot of hard
> > > pedaling or fast club rides, chances
are
> > > you're putting more road friction on the tires, and
> > > for example, here
in
> S
> > > Florida, many of the road surfaces we ride on have
> > > hard coral mixed
into
> the
> > > asphalt, so it can be harder on tires too. You need to
> > > look at what
> you're
> > > doing to your tires.
> > >
> > > BTW, 1400 miles is not bad wear for a set of tires,
> > > again depending on
> the
> > > conditions. If you had said 400 miles, I'd have really
> > > wondered. I
> like
> > > Hutchinson Carbon Comp tires. They wear very well, but
> > > still have
good
> fast
> > > cornering characteristics (I use em in crits, but I'm
> > > only Cat 4, so
> we're
> > > not cornering at 30+) and pliable enough (even at
> > > 140PSI) that on long rides, I don't start cursing them
> > > out.
> > >
> > > Hope this helped....
> > >
> >
> > This is in Seattle, certainly not a hot climate by your
> > standards. We
have
> hills
> > instead :)
> >
> > The compound of the Ultra Gatorskins does seem softer
> > than other tires
> I've
> > used. I don't ride particularly fast, though. I average
> > about 200 miles
a
> week,
> > mostly commuting in the 15-17 mph range.
> >
>
 
C

Cheg

Guest
"Booker C. Bense"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cav4s5
>
> cheg <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Why does higher pressure increase wear rate?
>
> _ Less of the tire contacts the road.
>
> > As far as the ride, the smoothness of the ride is the
> > one notable thing about Gatorskins that makes me want to
> > continue using them so I don't find them harsh at all.
>
> _ I think there is a typo in your message since I can't
> find any evidence that gatorskins come in 32mm width. For
> a 23mm width tire and your weight, 110 is probably about
> right...
>

27" x 1-1/4" => 32-630 ISO

> According to Jobst
> >Brandt's measured data higher pressure = lower rolling
> >resistance, which
could
> >be considered a positive benefit. I don't know how
> >significant the gain is compared to aerodynamic drag and
> >other mechanical losses, though.
>
> _ My own philosophy is to keep the tire pressure as low as
> is safe and avoids pinch flats. For me road comfort in a 3
> or 4 hour ride is much more important than speed.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense

One man's comfort is another man's PITA.
 
C

carlfogel

Guest
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:58:22 GMT,
[email protected] wrote:

>Carl Fogel writes:
>
>>>> It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the
>>>> nicest handling tires I've used, but they go away so
>>>> quickly and they're so expensive that I'm looking for
>>>> something else.
>
>>> How do you [know] whether one tire handles better than
>>> another since traction is either there or not on
>>> pavement. There is no tire squeal or side-slip, although
>>> writers to this newsgroup sometimes describe their
>>> cornering as drifting in curves. This does not occur.
>>> Besides that, chip seal, the most abrasive, roads have
>>> poorer traction than concrete or hot-mix asphalt roads.
>
>> Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
>> pavement more often with poorer handling tires?
>
>Maybe shmaybe, let the man speak for himself. You don't
>have to hold his hand.
>
>> It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can
>> tell whether one tire handles better than another in
>> terms of traction?
>
>Unless it is a knobby tire (not a road tire of the kind in
>question) there is no perceptible difference in handling
>until is washes out in a curve, something that occurs with
>colored tires on wet roads. It is not something you prefer
>to test but it has been done both in situ and on the tire
>testing machine I once designed for Avocet to measure
>maximum lean angle for tires.
>
>> Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question
>> "How do you [?] whether one tire handles better than
>> another . . ." seems rhetorical.
>
>That may be so in your estimation but I didn't ask you.
>
>> So how do you tell if one tire handles better than
>> another?
>
>You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests
>on a 16ft long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle
>until the bicycle slid. This was done at low speed and with
>protective clothing. There was a difference among tires
>tested. That was a few years ago.
>
>Jobst Brandt [email protected]

Dear Jobst,

If you don't like people replying to your posts, a newsgroup
may not be the best place to spend your time.

So your position is that no rider can tell the difference
between the way different tires handle during normal
riding and that they can be distinguished only at low
speed on a machine.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel
 

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