Road vs. Mountain Clipless with Foot Supination

[jpwkeeper]

I'm debating between Mountain vs. Road shoes as my first set of cycling shoes (using PowerGrips and some old sneakers right now). I had settled on Mountain style (I'm a roadie, but like the recessed cleat idea with Mountain shoes and read somewhere Mountain shoes were better for beginners). I was going to go pretty basic (read: cheap): Nashbar Comp M shoes with Shimano 520L pedals.

However, my left foot is Supinated (not sure if I'm saying that right, but I essentially walk on the outside edge of my foot a little bit). I know with the stiffer soles and stronger attachment to the pedal, Pronation and Supination can cause foot pain if you don't counter it by shimming the cleat. I didn't think that made a difference, but then I saw this article:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-shoes-cleats_339797

It seems to imply that shimming the cleats on mountain shoes has difficulties since part of the shoe itself contacts the pedal, and shimming can make your connection to the pedal unsteady with mountain shoes since I'd be lowing the connection to the pedal on one side, which can cause lateral rocking during pedaling, but not with Road shoes, implying that, in my case, road shoes would be clearly better.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Am I missing something?

 

[Volnix]

Nothing to do with orthopedics but Mountain cleats seem to last way longer then the plastic road cleats.

The mountain ones are made of metal and being recessed in the pedal as well will probably protect them even further.

I was using a pair of Shimano SPD-SL road cleats for about a year and they became quite nasty but were still working. They stopped clipping in when the front part of the cleat (the thing that "hooks" underneath the front of the pedal) became paper thin and eventually broke.

I tried to find a pair of "compatible" (aka dirt-cheap

) pair in the LBS's with no luck, so I got a pair of Blue SPD-SL's which 2 rides in resulted in the rear blue tabs falling off the cleats. Tried to ask for a warranty replacement but it was too much hassle and the LBS was kinda rude. So I am just using them as they are.


If I knew:

1. I would get Mountain pedals and some "sporty" mountain shoes.

2. If getting road pedals again, I would maybe go for Look. They say that the cleats are even less durable but there lots of "Compatible" (cheapie

) cleats available.


If you end up using road pedals, whatever design you go for, maybe getting a pair of cleat protectors is a good idea. They seem to be a bit tedious to use but they might protect the cleat even more. Most importantly take care to protect the front of the cleat and the rear grooved part as they are the ones that attach the cleat to the pedal.


Mind you that road cleats slip like a m@therf@cker on pavement.

And -always- skimp on cleats!

 

[AyeYo]

I have no personal experience with cleat shimming, but what you read makes perfect sense. On an SPD cleat the bulk of the contact platform is the shoe itself on either side of the cleat. If you were to shim the cleat to one side (which in my opinion would be somewhere between exceedingly difficult and impossible, because of how small it is) the shoe will only contact half the pedal, the other side will be up in the air. Between the already small contact area of an SPD style system and the less stiff shoe sole, rocking while pedaling seems like an inevitable outcome.

On an SPD-SL or similar road cleat, the contact platform is the cleat itself. The shoe makes no contact at all with the pedal. The cleat is also much larger, which makes shimming it seem more reasonable. You can shim it whatever way you need to without changing the contact surface with the pedal, only the angle of the shoe itself.

 

[dabac]

If you can ride flatties w/o problems I don't quite see why you wouldn't be able to ride MTB SPDs w/o problems either.

If it turns out to trouble you, I see two options:
- shim the insole of your shoe instead of the cleat. Use tape, strips of cardboard, whatever.
- go with CranksBrothers Eggbeater pedals and associated cleats. A bit more expensive, but they'll allow great freedom in foot alignment.

 

[Froze]

I'm no foot doctor (podiatrist) so you should probably go see one and see what they recommend. I would think, note the key word "think" meaning I really don't know! that you might need a pedal that offers full float. Anyway the doc can prescribe some orthotics based on certain measurements taken by a special machine, you get a set of those made then go see a professional bike fitting person and tell them about your issue, MAKE SURE that the bike shop doing the pro fitting comes with high respect and reviews because most places are far from professional fitters, just labels attached to a snot nose kid in their early 20's who had 3 days of training...good luck with those. Then read this, but I'm not sure if this is advertising hooey though: http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/03/foot-correction-part-2-wedging/

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by Froze
I'm no foot doctor (podiatrist) so you should probably go see one and see what they recommend. I would think, note the key word "think" meaning I really don't know! that you might need a pedal that offers full float. Anyway the doc can prescribe some orthotics based on certain measurements taken by a special machine, you get a set of those made then go see a professional bike fitting person and tell them about your issue, MAKE SURE that the bike shop doing the pro fitting comes with high respect and reviews because most places are far from professional fitters, just labels attached to a snot nose kid in their early 20's who had 3 days of training...good luck with those. Then read this, but I'm not sure if this is advertising hooey though: http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/03/foot-correction-part-2-wedging/

I actually did read that article during my initial Google-ing, and it was very interesting, but unfortunately I had a hard time sussing out the "Given what I just told you, this is what you should do" of it. It also seems like the article is kind of pushing a certain product, although the links in the article to that product (which I assume are their proprietary wedges) all seem to be broken. The "Wedge Ride" sounded interesting though, and I might consider that.

I did think about wedging inside of the shoe, but I also know that doing so can affect how the shoe fits, but I'd rather not involve a doctor if I can avoid it, nor do I want to shell out 250 bucks for a pro fitting because if I did I wouldn't be able to afford new shoes and pedals (I did get a free standard level fitting with my bike). I'm more along the path of "Tweak it till it feels good/doesn't hurt the outside of my foot". However, if I do need shimming I don't want to be stuck with shoes and pedals that are going to act wonky.

Does float include "roll" of the foot (so big toe up/pinky toe down) or just twist of the foot (big toe in or out)? I thought float was for yaw more than roll.

At any rate, based on what I'm reading here, it sounds like Road shoes and pedals are the way to go. Mountain shoes are good for walking around, but I hadn't considered that if you shim the cleat, it's now going to stick out that much on that side, potentially making that side of the cleat no longer recessed (with a metal cleat, won't that scratch up the floor really badly as well?) which negates the whole advantage of mountain cleats. The Road shoes leaves me with all shimming options open; cleat, forefoot, and heel are all viable alternatives. Now I just need to wait till some good road shoes go on sale at Nashbar

 

[Froze]

If you want a shoe you can walk around in then you'll need a mtb or touring shoe, if walking while out riding is something you'll never do then by all means get a road shoe. You don't have to shim the outside if you get an orthotic, but those I'm finding out are expensive, for the first time in my life my flat feet, actually one particular foot, is paining me and to get a set of orthotics made is about $600 to $800 which medical insurance does not cover but my HSA does, so if your insurance or HSA covers it then go that route because they can shim the foot from inside the shoe.

If you rather not go see a doc for orthotics and then a pro fitter to make it work then you can try doing it yourself, a lot of times this method will work, but if it doesn't you could spend a small fortune searching and searching for the right combination that will make your feet happy. I've never used a Pro Fitter because most of them are a rip off, they get you into the shop and make you spend about $250 for the service then they tack on all the recommended stuff to make you fit better on your bike and you could easily walk out the door $800 poorer and possibly still find yourself in pain! Then guess what the LBS will do? Drag you back in to double check the fitting for free and then find something they missed which will cost you another $250 that day! So yes try doing it yourself, there is a ton of info on the internet on how do a fitting yourself. But to try to a self made orthotic that could be a miracle if it works.

 

[AyeYo]

Float is only yaw. There is no cleat style I know of that offers roll because that wwould be very unstable while standing and would probably lead to knee issues if your foot was able to rock while pedaling.

Walking in road shoes isn't really as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Get some cleat covers and it's even easier (and you won't go through two sets of cleats per season). If you need to walk for any length of time off the bike, keep the covers with you and throw them on when you dismount. The only places road shoes are genuinely dangerous is very smooth surfaces like polished wood floors and any type of painted tarmac that's wet. Not many people are going to want you walking on their nice wood floor with road shoes anyway, so that's a non-issue. Painted lines are easily avoided by simply stepping over them. You obviously don't want to hop off the bike and go for a hike or jog, but you wouldn't want to do that in mountain shoes either.

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by AyeYo
Float is only yaw. There is no cleat style I know of that offers roll because that wwould be very unstable while standing and would probably lead to knee issues if your foot was able to rock while pedaling.

Walking in road shoes isn't really as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Get some cleat covers and it's even easier (and you won't go through two sets of cleats per season). If you need to walk for any length of time off the bike, keep the covers with you and throw them on when you dismount. The only places road shoes are genuinely dangerous is very smooth surfaces like polished wood floors and any type of painted tarmac that's wet. Not many people are going to want you walking on their nice wood floor with road shoes anyway, so that's a non-issue. Painted lines are easily avoided by simply stepping over them. You obviously don't want to hop off the bike and go for a hike or jog, but you wouldn't want to do that in mountain shoes either.

I tried walking in a pair of road shoes with cleat covers, have you? I wouldn't recommend doing that to my worst enemy! It sort of feels like walking around in those Dutch wood shoes with a small diameter log in the middle of your foot, not to mention very slippery due to the plastic bottoms as you mentioned, and you'll wear out the bottom of the shoe rather quickly. Not my idea of a pleasant way of walking.

 

[AyeYo]

It depends what shoes and what cleat covers. I have rubbery covers that grip very well and my shoes have heel and toe pads that also grip very well. It's certainly not comfortable, but it's also not unsafe.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by AyeYo
You obviously don't want to hop off the bike and go for a hike or jog, but you wouldn't want to do that in mountain shoes either.

Actually my use-case is/was a flat or some other mechanical less than 2 miles from my origin.

Since I tend to ride loops (vs. pure out-and-back routes) and my routes tend to be less than 15 miles since I ride primarily at lunch, every flat I've ever had but one I've been able to walk back from.

That being said, I'm beginning to sense that MTB shoes are easier to walk in, but not to mistake them for walking in sneakers by any stretch of the imagination.