Roadies, do you use rear-view mirrors

[Pat]

> Slartibartfast wrote:
> > What is an impropoper left turn for a cyclist? Is that when you turn without waiting for traffic
> > to clear?
>
> Or against the light? Or unsignalled? Or mid-block? Or from the right-side lane?
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi

Around here, a very common improper left turn for anybody is when you--the driver or
cyclist--slant across a left turn instead of making a 90 degree turn to the left. In order to cut
the corner like this, the driver slants across both lanes of the road. Kind of a diagonal turn
instead of a proper right angle turn. Cars run into each other doing this, especially when the
vision is blocked in some way.

Pat in TX

 

[Jim Edwards]

I think a lot of you are missing the point about a rear view mirror. It isn't for avoiding a rear
end collision, it is for having an easy way to see behind you. You don't stare in your mirror on a
motorcycle or in your car, you use it when you need it. Left turns, taking the lane at lights etc.
It doesn't replace a look behind, but used properly, it lets you be more aware of what goes on
around you. I use it on my commuter and would feel blind without now. Ears work, but only for the
first car and not if you have a bus or Harley coming in the opposite direction. Jim "Rick Onanian"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:11:19 +0100, Per Daniel Sørensen <s648@_RM_ii.uib.no> wrote:
> >driving for a few years many people start to forget things like checking the blind spot, and
> >counting three seconds distance to the car in front.
>
> When I was in Pennsylvania this summer, I saw that they had markings in the road to remind drivers
> and help them judge distance. There were huge dots on the pavement, and a sign that illustrated
> how to use them.
>
> Great idea, but I suspect everybody will just get used to it and not see them at all. While I was
> there, it did seem that drivers were not getting so close, but that may have been placebic.
>
> >Per D. Sørensen
> --
> Rick Onanian

 

[Ariel]

In article <[email protected]>, Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't mean to cite this to discourage mirror use, however. I'm a very strong advocate of
> helmet-mounted mirrors, and never ride without mine.

I have mine clipped onto my sunglasses (which I ALWAYS wear while cycling). It's more stable IMHO
than a helmet mount and I rarely have to adjust it.

--
Ariel

 

[Pat]

> > I don't mean to cite this to discourage mirror use, however. I'm a very strong advocate of
> > helmet-mounted mirrors, and never ride without mine.
>
> I have mine clipped onto my sunglasses (which I ALWAYS wear while cycling). It's more stable IMHO
> than a helmet mount and I rarely have to adjust it.
>
> --
> Ariel

I have the one that fits on to the helmet by bending the wires to clamp it tightly. I have been
seeing a lot of people with the sunglass mounted one. Can it be made really tight? I have a tendency
to take off my sunglasses and wipe my forehead and eyes with a cloth, and I wonder if the mirror
might fall off if I let the sunglasses drop on my chest.

Pat in TX

 

[Emily]

> I have the one that fits on to the helmet by bending the wires to clamp it tightly. I have been
> seeing a lot of people with the sunglass mounted one. Can it be made really tight? I have a
> tendency to take off my sunglasses and wipe my forehead and eyes with a cloth, and I wonder if
> the mirror
might
> fall off if I let the sunglasses drop on my chest.
>
> Pat in TX

The "Take a Look" mirror mounts to the sunglasses and is very snug. It never bounces and only rarely
needs readjusting. It would NEVER fall off in my experience.

I love this mirror!

Emily

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net says...
> >
> > It looks like about 43% are due to the cyclists's screw-ups.
> >
>
> The article just talks about bicycle accidents, not fatalties specifically. I would be interested
> in seeing which accidents are more likely to result in fatalities.
>
> I would guess that the "moving bicycle, stopped car" accidents are less likely to be fatal because
> the bike is not moving all that fast (usually), Fatalities would result from a large
> *differential* in speed, which would occur in a typical "from behind" accident.

That would depend a lot on the road you were on. When I'm riding 17 to 20 mph, it's rare that the
cars passing me are going to be going 20 mph faster than me, so the relative speed in that kind of
crash is going to be close to what I would have if I ran into a car who turned left in front of me
(assuming I don't put on my brakes). A much more dangerous part of a from-behind hit would be that
the car is moving, and after he knocks you down, there's a good chance he's going to then run over
you. That won't happen much in a right-hook, left-cross, or dooring accident. I think that's a much
bigger risk factor in the from-behind accident than the relative speed is.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[Garmonboezia]

David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> I know I've avoided crashes by being defensive in a car, for example by waiting an extra second
> after my light turns green to see if that guy coming on the cross street is going to get stopped
> or not, and that attitude definitely spills over to a bike as well.
>
Very good advice. Just because I have the green doesn't mean someone isn't coming. I lost count of
how many cars I saw yesterday entering intersections AFTER the light changed to red.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

I wrote:

>>I don't mean to cite this to discourage mirror use, however. I'm a very strong advocate of
>>helmet-mounted mirrors, and never ride without mine.

A shy person responded:

> I have mine clipped onto my sunglasses (which I ALWAYS wear while cycling). It's more stable IMHO
> than a helmet mount and I rarely have to adjust it.

That may be a reasonable option if you're only a fair-weather, daytime cyclist, but it certainly
wouldn't work for me--it's really not safe to wear suglasses after dark.

When I've tried glasses-mounted mirrors, I've found them much less stable than helmet-mounted ones.
The weight of the mirror caused my glasses to sag to the left, while the helmet mirror has no
detectable effect on my helmet.

Also, when I get to where I'm going and take off my helmet, the mirror stays with the helmet. I keep
my glasses on, and it would be inconvenient to constantly have to clip and unclip the mirror.

Sheldon "Four Eyes" Brown +------------------------------------------------+
| Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion | without the discomfort of thought. | -- John F.
| Kennedy |
+------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Rich Clark]

"Slartibartfast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > D: Cyclist Made Improper Left Turn 11.20
> >
>
> What is an impropoper left turn for a cyclist? Is that when you turn without waiting for traffic
> to clear?

Or tuning left from the right side of the road, or turning left on a red light, or anything else
that's illegal for any vehicle to do when turning left.

RichC

 

[Doug Purdy]

"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That may be a reasonable option if you're only a fair-weather, daytime cyclist, but it certainly
> wouldn't work for me--it's really not safe to wear suglasses after dark.

Perhaps she wears the sunglasses with the switchable lenses.

> When I've tried glasses-mounted mirrors, I've found them much less stable than helmet-mounted
> ones. The weight of the mirror caused my glasses to sag to the left, while the helmet mirror has
> no detectable effect on my helmet.

I have no trouble with eyeglasses mirrors. It doesn't even matter if the mirror is oriented very
differently from time to time as it's easy to work out where it's aimed and adjust. Ok, I do take
more care to set the orientation at night when I can be fooled. I'd prefer it over the mirrors in my
car if it weren't for the roof in the way.

But it took a while to get this familiar with the eyeglasses mirrors. It took me a while to stop
seeing the warped vision from my no-line bifocals too. If people can adapt to those bifocals they
can make the easier adjustment to mirrors.

> Also, when I get to where I'm going and take off my helmet, the mirror stays with the helmet. I
> keep my glasses on, and it would be inconvenient to constantly have to clip and unclip the mirror.

I don't understand, it's no trouble to mount and remove. It's a bit of a bother when I try to take
off my jersey and it gets caught on the mirror and tangles over my head. It a surprise when I bend
over to look at something up close and whack the mirror into it. Though I suppose it's inconvenient
the way I end up looking goofy in those occasions.

But however you chose to mount the mirror, it's a handy convenience on the road.

Doug

 

[Robert Strickla]

> Rather than use a mirror , I use my ears and also look over my shoulder. A little practice makes
> it easy to turn one's head momentarily and continue riding in a straight line. I know trackies who
> can ride an entire lap of the velodrome while looking over their shoulder. If you have neck
> problems or ride a recumbent, this may be less practical.

Ok, but trackies probably aren't concerned about someone opening a car door, or having a car pull
out of a drive way in front of them on the velodrome, now are they?

 

[Trent Piepho]

In article <[email protected]>, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>
>It looks like about 43% are due to the cyclists's screw-ups.

There is an external factor causing bias in those statistics. Children younger than 16-18 are not
permitted to drive cars! However, they are permitted to ride bicycles, do so in large numbers, and
make up a large portion of the cycling accidents.

According to data from _Bicycle Collisions in Washington State: A Six-Year Perspective,
1988-1993_, http://www.enhancements.org/trb/1538-011.pdf, half of all bicycle collisions involved
those aged 15 of less.

I can't find it again, but I know I read a report that had a fault breakdown by age group. For
cyclists of driving age, the fault was something like 20% cyclist and 80% motorist.

 

[Mark Hickey]

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Around here, a very common improper left turn for anybody is when you--the driver or cyclist--slant
>across a left turn instead of making a 90 degree turn to the left. In order to cut the corner like
>this, the driver slants across both lanes of the road. Kind of a diagonal turn instead of a proper
>right angle turn. Cars run into each other doing this, especially when the vision is blocked in
>some way.

There's an intersection near my house where you HAVE to make an "improper left turn" or else you'll
hit someone head on. There's a two lane one-way frontage road on each side of a major expressway.
The intersection is on an overpass over that expressway.

So... when you turn left from the frontage road, because of the wide separation between the
northbound and southbound frontage roads, the cars turn, passing each other on the wrong side (two
lanes each direction). There's a white "diamond" painted in the road to indicate where not to drive.

This is an "interesting place" to make a left on a bike, though I very often do it. Normally, I'll
take the left "wide", drifting into the "white diamond" (which is only about 10' / 3m wide), with
cars whizzing by on both sides (on the "wrong side" of the road, of course). I have to allow traffic
to pass to make an almost immediate left, or fight them for position (crossing both of the two
turning lanes to do so). Normally I wait, since there are far too many distractions for the drivers
(it's a very, very odd turn to make the first time you do it).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Frkrygowhaltspa]

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> When I've tried glasses-mounted mirrors, I've found them much less stable than helmet-mounted
> ones. The weight of the mirror caused my glasses to sag to the left, while the helmet mirror has
> no detectable effect on my helmet.

I'm surprised at this. Your eyeglass mirror must be heavy indeed!

> Also, when I get to where I'm going and take off my helmet, the mirror stays with the helmet. I
> keep my glasses on, and it would be inconvenient to constantly have to clip and unclip the mirror.

Mine eyeglass mirror is homemade, but it attaches & detaches _extremely_ easily. In fact, I
occasionally begin riding without it, then put it on using one hand, while riding. Never needs
focusing, either.

BTW, I once attended an engineering education conference where one of the other attendees had his
mirror clipped to his glasses for the entire conference. Apparently, he never takes it off!

I don't think I could ever attain that impressive level of geekdom. But I bet a guy with an eagle on
his helmet might!

--
Frank Krygowski

 

[Java Man]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> When I've tried glasses-mounted mirrors, I've found them much less stable than helmet-mounted
> ones. The weight of the mirror caused my glasses to sag to the left, while the helmet mirror has
> no detectable effect on my helmet.
>
>
Are you forgetting the stabilizing effect of the, ah, "airfoil" mounted atop your helmet? ;-)

Rick

 

[Tom Sherman]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> ... Being as how I don't always wear a helmet, a helmet-mounted mirror would be of only occasional
> value. In addition to that, I find the things somewhat difficult to use because the mirror is not
> in a fixed relationship to the roadway. I'm not always sure *where* the car is that's behind me as
> a result. I presume that practice can result in perceptual learning to compensate, but the mirror
> seemed of such little utility that I've never spent the time....

That is exactly why I prefer handlebar mounted mirrors to helmet/eyeglass mounted mirrors.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

 

[Ariel]

In article <[email protected]>, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:

> > I have mine clipped onto my sunglasses (which I ALWAYS wear while cycling). It's more stable
> > IMHO than a helmet mount and I rarely have to adjust it.
>
> I have the one that fits on to the helmet by bending the wires to clamp it tightly. I have been
> seeing a lot of people with the sunglass mounted one. Can it be made really tight? I have a
> tendency to take off my sunglasses and wipe my forehead and eyes with a cloth, and I wonder if the
> mirror might fall off if I let the sunglasses drop on my chest.

Yes. I have mine (a BIKE PEDDLER Take-A-Look Mirror, $14.99 at Colorado Cyclist) mounted on Rudy
Project sunglasses and it's a pretty tight fit. The mirror will move (from three pivots) to just
about any position you want and I don't generally have a problem with it moving while riding, though
I don't take them off till I'm done with my ride. The Rudy glasses also have vents that keep the
lens from fogging up--they will generally do so only on a cold day when I'm pretty hot and have a
prolonged stop.

--
Ariel

 

[Ariel]

In article <[email protected]>, Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> >>I don't mean to cite this to discourage mirror use, however. I'm a very strong advocate of
> >>helmet-mounted mirrors, and never ride without mine.
>
> A shy person responded:

Shy? Moi?!?!?

> > I have mine clipped onto my sunglasses (which I ALWAYS wear while cycling). It's more stable
> > IMHO than a helmet mount and I rarely have to adjust it.
>
> That may be a reasonable option if you're only a fair-weather, daytime cyclist, but it certainly
> wouldn't work for me--it's really not safe to wear suglasses after dark.

But, then, I could change the dark lenses for untinted ones ...

> When I've tried glasses-mounted mirrors, I've found them much less stable than helmet-mounted
> ones. The weight of the mirror caused my glasses to sag to the left, while the helmet mirror has
> no detectable effect on my helmet.

I don't have this problem.

> Also, when I get to where I'm going and take off my helmet, the mirror stays with the helmet. I
> keep my glasses on, and it would be inconvenient to constantly have to clip and unclip the mirror.

Yes, I suppose. I have a different pair of sunglasses for driving.

--
Ariel

 

[Ariel]

In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > ... Being as how I don't always wear a helmet, a helmet-mounted mirror would be of only
> > occasional value. In addition to that, I find the things somewhat difficult to use because the
> > mirror is not in a fixed relationship to the roadway. I'm not always sure *where* the car is
> > that's behind me as a result. I presume that practice can result in perceptual learning to
> > compensate, but the mirror seemed of such little utility that I've never spent the time....
>
> That is exactly why I prefer handlebar mounted mirrors to helmet/eyeglass mounted mirrors.

The problem I have with these kinds of mirrors is that I have to change where I'm looking--I have
to move my head and then I'm not looking forward. With the eye glass mounted kinds all I need to do
is a quick flick of the eyeball to take a quick peek--only a slight change of focus. I do this a
lot, even if I'm not planning to change my position on the road. I want to know what's going on
around me!

--
Ariel

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In article <[email protected]>, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
> >
> >It looks like about 43% are due to the cyclists's screw-ups.
>
> There is an external factor causing bias in those statistics. Children younger than 16-18 are not
> permitted to drive cars! However, they are permitted to ride bicycles, do so in large numbers, and
> make up a large portion of the cycling accidents.

Good point, and one I hadn't thought of while reading those stats.

...

> I can't find it again, but I know I read a report that had a fault breakdown by age group. For
> cyclists of driving age, the fault was something like 20% cyclist and 80% motorist.

Just speculating, but I'll bet many of those were probably the motorist not seeing the "stealth"
cyclist (the one who was riding at night with dark clothes and no lights or reflectors) until it
was too late.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.