hombredesubaru said:
Let me rephrase that…… Beltran, Armstrong, Hamilton, and now Heres all caught up in drug scandals… one link… US Postal / Discovery.
Roberto Heras SUSPENDED!
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Let me rephrase that…… Beltran, Armstrong, Hamilton, and now Heres all caught up in drug scandals… one link… US Postal / Discovery.
Heras speaks.... "There has been a mix-up" ! (have we not heard this before ?)
Four-times Vuelta winner Roberto Heras has blamed a laboratory mix-up for his suspected positive test for the banned substance erythropoietin (EPO). The 31-year-old has been suspended after giving a positive test during this year's race.
"They told me the news at the end of October. The only thing I can think of is that it is a laboratory error," Heras, who is classed as one of the best climbers in the world, told radio station Onda Cero on Tuesday.
"My lawyers and the team are working on the case as we speak and there will be a 'B' test on Nov. 21.
"I don't want to start speculating about whether the samples could have been mixed up, but when they open the samples for the second test we want to be there," he said.
Heras is the first rider to win the Tour of Spain four times after a first win in 2000 before consecutive victories from 2003-2005.
Armstrong, with whom Heras rode as part of the U.S. Postal team from 2001-2003, has himself been dogged by allegations about doping since retiring after his seventh Tour de France victory in July.
French newspaper L'Equipe said in August it had evidence that six of Armstrong's urine samples collected when he first won the Tour in 1999 showed traces of EPO.
The American has denied the allegations, but the UCI has since appointed a Dutch firm of lawyers to investigate the claims.
MEDIA LEAKS
Heras's team, Liberty Seguros, said on Monday they received notice from cycling's governing body, the UCI, on Oct. 27 that Heras had tested positive for EPO during stage 20 of the Tour of Spain in September, an individual time trial between Guadalajara and Alcala de Henares.
EPO increases the level of red blood cells and thus helps improve endurance.
Liberty Seguros said that "respect for the principle of innocence and a desire to wait for the 'B' test made the team's board decide not to make the news public until the events were confirmed".
However, they said leaks to media late on Monday had persuaded them to make a statement.
The team said they would continue to fight to clean up the sport but believed Heras "would be able to prove his innocence".
If the 'B' test confirms a positive test, Heras will be obliged to rescind his contract with Liberty Seguros.
He would also lose this year's Tour of Spain title, which would pass to second-placed Russian rider Denis Menchov (right).
Two other Spanish riders have also tested positive recently.
After the last Tour of Spain, Aitor Gonzalez, winner in 2002, put a positive test down to eating a contaminated food supplement.
In March, Santiago Perez was banned for two years after testing positive for a blood transfusion in the 2004 Tour.
"ZERO TOLERANCE"
Other Spaniards, including German-born cross country skier Johann Muehlegg, former soccer international Pep Guardiola and runner Alberto Garcia, have also been involved in drugs scandals.
Muehlegg was stripped of the three gold medals he won for Spain in the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics, and banned for two years after testing positive for the blood-boosting drug darbepoetin.
Guardiola was fined 2,000 euros ($2,364) by an Italian court in May 2005 and given a seven-month suspended prison sentence after he tested positive for the banned steroid nandrolone.
Garcia, who broke the European 5,000 metre indoor record in 2003, was banned for two years after testing positive for EPO at the world cross country championships in Lausanne.
In October, the Spanish government announced tough new proposals to deal with doping in sport, and proposed to set up an anti-doping agency.
"Spain has changed. We used to have a reputation as being permissive in our stance on drugs. Now we have shown our target is zero tolerance," said sports minister Jaime Lissavetzky.
The draft law proposes prison sentences for both users and those who promote drug use, as well a stiff fines for anyone involved in doping.
Four-times Vuelta winner Roberto Heras has blamed a laboratory mix-up for his suspected positive test for the banned substance erythropoietin (EPO). The 31-year-old has been suspended after giving a positive test during this year's race.
"They told me the news at the end of October. The only thing I can think of is that it is a laboratory error," Heras, who is classed as one of the best climbers in the world, told radio station Onda Cero on Tuesday.
"My lawyers and the team are working on the case as we speak and there will be a 'B' test on Nov. 21.
"I don't want to start speculating about whether the samples could have been mixed up, but when they open the samples for the second test we want to be there," he said.
Heras is the first rider to win the Tour of Spain four times after a first win in 2000 before consecutive victories from 2003-2005.
Armstrong, with whom Heras rode as part of the U.S. Postal team from 2001-2003, has himself been dogged by allegations about doping since retiring after his seventh Tour de France victory in July.
French newspaper L'Equipe said in August it had evidence that six of Armstrong's urine samples collected when he first won the Tour in 1999 showed traces of EPO.
The American has denied the allegations, but the UCI has since appointed a Dutch firm of lawyers to investigate the claims.
MEDIA LEAKS
Heras's team, Liberty Seguros, said on Monday they received notice from cycling's governing body, the UCI, on Oct. 27 that Heras had tested positive for EPO during stage 20 of the Tour of Spain in September, an individual time trial between Guadalajara and Alcala de Henares.
EPO increases the level of red blood cells and thus helps improve endurance.
Liberty Seguros said that "respect for the principle of innocence and a desire to wait for the 'B' test made the team's board decide not to make the news public until the events were confirmed".
However, they said leaks to media late on Monday had persuaded them to make a statement.
The team said they would continue to fight to clean up the sport but believed Heras "would be able to prove his innocence".
If the 'B' test confirms a positive test, Heras will be obliged to rescind his contract with Liberty Seguros.
He would also lose this year's Tour of Spain title, which would pass to second-placed Russian rider Denis Menchov (right).
Two other Spanish riders have also tested positive recently.
After the last Tour of Spain, Aitor Gonzalez, winner in 2002, put a positive test down to eating a contaminated food supplement.
In March, Santiago Perez was banned for two years after testing positive for a blood transfusion in the 2004 Tour.
"ZERO TOLERANCE"
Other Spaniards, including German-born cross country skier Johann Muehlegg, former soccer international Pep Guardiola and runner Alberto Garcia, have also been involved in drugs scandals.
Muehlegg was stripped of the three gold medals he won for Spain in the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics, and banned for two years after testing positive for the blood-boosting drug darbepoetin.
Guardiola was fined 2,000 euros ($2,364) by an Italian court in May 2005 and given a seven-month suspended prison sentence after he tested positive for the banned steroid nandrolone.
Garcia, who broke the European 5,000 metre indoor record in 2003, was banned for two years after testing positive for EPO at the world cross country championships in Lausanne.
In October, the Spanish government announced tough new proposals to deal with doping in sport, and proposed to set up an anti-doping agency.
"Spain has changed. We used to have a reputation as being permissive in our stance on drugs. Now we have shown our target is zero tolerance," said sports minister Jaime Lissavetzky.
The draft law proposes prison sentences for both users and those who promote drug use, as well a stiff fines for anyone involved in doping.
I was surprised as anyone by these news.
However I was also surprised to see Heras ride at 56 km/h in that ITT of the Vuelta. I couldn't believe it! We are talking about a guy who up until then had always lost an average of 3-5 minutes to ITT specialists like Armstrong, Ulrich, etc... and then this year all of a sudden he rides at 56 km/h!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought, if Heras can ride this good in the ITT and climb as he uses to do he might win the 2006 TdF. BUT, I guess it was too nice to be true. Well, let's way to see the results of the B samples.
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REgarding EPO, I agree that up until the early 90 the peloton was relatively clean. I remember Lemmond statements: "Last year (1990) I won the TdF and we were the stronger team. The next year (1991) we were in even better shape, but we just couldn't keep the peloton pace." That probably reveals EPO began to be used by most teams.
However I was also surprised to see Heras ride at 56 km/h in that ITT of the Vuelta. I couldn't believe it! We are talking about a guy who up until then had always lost an average of 3-5 minutes to ITT specialists like Armstrong, Ulrich, etc... and then this year all of a sudden he rides at 56 km/h!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought, if Heras can ride this good in the ITT and climb as he uses to do he might win the 2006 TdF. BUT, I guess it was too nice to be true. Well, let's way to see the results of the B samples.
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REgarding EPO, I agree that up until the early 90 the peloton was relatively clean. I remember Lemmond statements: "Last year (1990) I won the TdF and we were the stronger team. The next year (1991) we were in even better shape, but we just couldn't keep the peloton pace." That probably reveals EPO began to be used by most teams.
Tour of Spain director Victor Cordero believes cycling is one step away from 'disaster' if a suspected positive doping test for 2005 champion Roberto Heras is confirmed. Spaniard Heras, winner of a record four Tours of Spain, tested positive for EPO during stage 20, Liberty Seguros said on Tuesday.
"It was our tests on the (2004) Tour of Spain which caught (American 2004 Olympic time trial champion) Tyler Hamilton when he was positive (for blood transfusion), something that they couldn't manage to do at the Olympics that year," he said.
"This time round, we're once again showing a firm hand that doesn't tremble when it comes to rooting out any possible cheats, regardless of how famous they are.
"Doping is trickery, and it has to be dealt with in the strongest way possible."
"It was our tests on the (2004) Tour of Spain which caught (American 2004 Olympic time trial champion) Tyler Hamilton when he was positive (for blood transfusion), something that they couldn't manage to do at the Olympics that year," he said.
"This time round, we're once again showing a firm hand that doesn't tremble when it comes to rooting out any possible cheats, regardless of how famous they are.
"Doping is trickery, and it has to be dealt with in the strongest way possible."
sopas said:
Heras must have been tested on the day he won the stage, when he had his teammates wait for him to pull him. Why did he not come out positive at that time, if he had been using EPO then? And if he was actually clean (as we must infer at that time), why would he need to use EPO in the penultimate day's ITT when he had such a significant lead (even though he is not the strongest of ITTists)?
See the time differentials before the ITT stage that Heras is purported to have tested positive on:
1 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 78.06.39
2 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.30
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 4.50
4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.48
5 Carlos Garcia Quesada (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 6.22
6 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 11.13
7 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 11.36
He had a lead of 4'30" going into the ITT, which was only 38.9 km! Who would need to dope for that?
See the time differentials before the ITT stage that Heras is purported to have tested positive on:
1 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 78.06.39
2 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.30
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 4.50
4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.48
5 Carlos Garcia Quesada (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 6.22
6 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 11.13
7 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana 11.36
He had a lead of 4'30" going into the ITT, which was only 38.9 km! Who would need to dope for that?
In procycling, Piñera makes the same point:
“Until the results of the counter-analysis are confirmed I will hang on to the hope that the laboratory has made some mistake. It seems ridiculous to me that Heras has tested positive for EPO on the penultimate stage of a Vuelta that he had already won. He didn’t need to be doped to win. That’s why I can’t understand that he could have doped… It’s a ridiculous situation that I don’t understand.”
Menchov needed to go 6.94 seconds/km faster than Heras for every single km before Menchov could catch Heras' 4'30" lead going into the ITT.
Also, if it is the case that the GC leader always gets tested on a stage, Heras' having coming in second place on the stage (unexpectedly) would not have caused him to undergo testing that he would otherwise not have had to do. In other words, he knew he would be tested, if the stated assumption is accurate.
“Until the results of the counter-analysis are confirmed I will hang on to the hope that the laboratory has made some mistake. It seems ridiculous to me that Heras has tested positive for EPO on the penultimate stage of a Vuelta that he had already won. He didn’t need to be doped to win. That’s why I can’t understand that he could have doped… It’s a ridiculous situation that I don’t understand.”
Menchov needed to go 6.94 seconds/km faster than Heras for every single km before Menchov could catch Heras' 4'30" lead going into the ITT.
Also, if it is the case that the GC leader always gets tested on a stage, Heras' having coming in second place on the stage (unexpectedly) would not have caused him to undergo testing that he would otherwise not have had to do. In other words, he knew he would be tested, if the stated assumption is accurate.
The previous negative tests from earlier in the Vuelta do not in any way mean that he wasn't doping then. More than likely he was just doping properly at that stage - ie so that he didn't get caught.musette said:
Getting busted near the end (if the B sample is +ve), probably means somebody stuffed up. Maybe he mixed up his growth hormone & Epo syringes and injected the wrong one?
What everybody doesn't understand is that many ex-USPS domestiques rise to prominence in the peloton, because Bruyneel can pick talent. So, people become team leaders and high profile people just because Bruyneel has a wonderful eye for talent. Once people become more prominent and win races, they are tested more and scrutinized more.
We can all agree to draw a line in the sand at 1998. Beltran and Heres may of rode for other teams but there is a common thread to all these positives and or drug scandals... USPS / Discovery. If we look a little deeper we find a national federation that’s not independent and refuses to take responsibility of the Hamilton and Armstrong's cases, and a team which has cultivated more positive tested riders through its system than any other team since 1998. I think there is a lot to be afraid of. How can we now possibly believe anything that Bruyneel or Discovery put in front of us now ? Bruyneel is a fraud, Armstrong ownership is based upon profit and not ethics and the entire team is a swindle.musette said:What everybody doesn't understand is that many ex-USPS domestiques rise to prominence in the peloton, because Bruyneel can pick talent. So, people become team leaders and high profile people just because Bruyneel has a wonderful eye for talent. Once people become more prominent and win races, they are tested more and scrutinized more.
The Discovery team should be suspended from all competition until a full investigation is completed into there practices and trafficking.
The problem is not discovery, the problem is much bigger. There are a few teams who have had "strange" results in the last few years.whiteboytrash said:
musette said:What everybody doesn't understand is that many ex-USPS domestiques rise to prominence in the peloton, because Bruyneel can pick talent. So, people become team leaders and high profile people just because Bruyneel has a wonderful eye for talent. Once people become more prominent and win races, they are tested more and scrutinized more.
Bruyneel can pick mules : he learnt that at the knee of his former DS at ONCE
Signor Saiz.
He's another one who claims that cycling's clean.
Surprised that he didn't get a walk on part in "Every Second Counts".
whiteboytrash said:
Right on, that dam Disco team must have invented EPO for the sole purpose of winning the TDF 7 times in a row. In fact if it wasn't for Disco there wouldn't be any doping in cycling at all. I'm confused about one thing though, whose this Heres bloke you keep talking about.
I can tell you why it was so popular in the 90ties. A certain Ferrari (LA's coach) provided the gewiss team with that stuff and look up in the results the team was flying.......The peloton noticed that and everyone wanted to know what the product was: epo. After that everyone was on epo......and in 1995 the high days of gewiss LA met Ferrari........
Just connecting the dots for you..........you do the math
Just connecting the dots for you..........you do the math
davidbod said:
But Ferrari was not the only one...MJtje said:I can tell you why it was so popular in the 90ties. A certain Ferrari (LA's coach) provided the gewiss team with that stuff and look up in the results the team was flying.......The peloton noticed that and everyone wanted to know what the product was: epo. After that everyone was on epo......and in 1995 the high days of gewiss LA met Ferrari........
Just connecting the dots for you..........you do the math
MJtje said:I can tell you why it was so popular in the 90ties. A certain Ferrari (LA's coach) provided the gewiss team with that stuff and look up in the results the team was flying.......The peloton noticed that and everyone wanted to know what the product was: epo. After that everyone was on epo......and in 1995 the high days of gewiss LA met Ferrari........
Just connecting the dots for you..........you do the math
Yes, just pointing out as you have that this isn't just a Disco thing, its a cycling thing. Between Ferrari and his counter part, can't remember his name, almost all of the top riders use one of these two "coaches" to supplement their training.
davidbod said:
But Armstrong had Ferrari tied into an exclusive contract for the TdF (so much for the level playing field then), and Ferrari was also responsible for coaching other valued members of the USPS team, like Kevin Livingston, whose haematocrit jumped from 41.7% to 49.9% in 7 months - just in time for the Tour de France.
MJtje said:
Virenque went to see Ferrari and was highly impressed - however, he was never a client because a) Ferrari was too expensive for him and b) he felt that working with Ferrari was tantamount to taking out an ad saying 'I'm a doper'
Interesting that Virenque wouldn't work with him because the association between Ferrari and doping was so obvious...
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