'Rocchetta' Rocket pics

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Larry Bloomfiel, Mar 12, 2003.

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  1. www.smartgroups.com/pictures/openalbum.cfm?GID=1170210&AlbumID=301385
     
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  2. Tony

    Tony Guest

    On 12 Mar 2003 12:09:56 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bloomfield) wrote:

    >www.smartgroups.com/pictures/openalbum.cfm?GID=1170210&AlbumID=301385

    Looks great, Larry! Did you get the bars directly from Bacchetta?

    Regards,

    Tony
     
  3. R2D2

    R2D2 New Member

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    Nice job Larry.

    Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?
     
  4. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    R2D2 wrote:
    >
    > Nice job Larry.
    >
    > Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?

    "Twitchy" implies a type of handling that leads to a tendency to over-control the bike. While the
    RANS Rocket certainly has "quick" handling, I would certainly not consider it to be twitchy.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  5. R2D2 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Nice job Larry.
    >
    > Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?

    Got bars from Bacchetta dealer (~$40). Profile stem (<300 gms. MSRP ~$25)& 2 ea. 14" brake/gear
    housings from LBS. Bike handled beautifully on 30 mile test ride although I've just lowered the
    bars per Bacchetta recommendations. The setup has a very solid feel - significantly better than
    stock IMHO
     
  6. Stratrider

    Stratrider Guest

    Very nice set up Larry! Nice job!

    Jim Reilly Reading, PA
     
  7. Mike Warner

    Mike Warner Guest

    Tom Sherman wrote:

    >
    > R2D2 wrote:
    >>
    >> Nice job Larry.
    >>
    >> Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?
    >
    > "Twitchy" implies a type of handling that leads to a tendency to over-control the bike. While the
    > RANS Rocket certainly has "quick" handling, I would certainly not consider it to be twitchy.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

    I own a 2002 Rocket, and, as much as I like the bike, I would have to describe the steering as
    twitchy. It can be be risky taking ONE hand off the handlebar. Try riding a Rocket with no hands.

    However, attentiveness and expertise *can* throw a patina of "quickness" over that twitchiness.

    It's a great bike, but, like anything else, there are design tradeoffs. 20-inch front wheel, short
    wheelbase, long riser: twitchy.

    mc
    --
    Replace "crap" with "warnerm" in my email addr
     
  8. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    Twitchty is a matter of experience, and weight distribution, i.e. more on the front wheel, increases
    this. The "expert" in the Area, Mark of Bikesmith feels that one of RANS true positives, is the fact
    that they are designed correctly for trail etc. and there is little poor handling too them, in fact
    he mentioned to me, His EVO design would be more for comfort on my v-rex, than for handling
    improvement.

    Mike Warner wrote:
    > Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    >
    >>R2D2 wrote:
    >>
    >>>Nice job Larry.
    >>>
    >>>Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?
    >>
    >>"Twitchy" implies a type of handling that leads to a tendency to over-control the bike. While the
    >>RANS Rocket certainly has "quick" handling, I would certainly not consider it to be twitchy.
    >>
    >>Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
    >
    >
    > I own a 2002 Rocket, and, as much as I like the bike, I would have to describe the steering as
    > twitchy. It can be be risky taking ONE hand off the handlebar. Try riding a Rocket with no hands.
    >
    > However, attentiveness and expertise *can* throw a patina of "quickness" over that twitchiness.
    >
    > It's a great bike, but, like anything else, there are design tradeoffs. 20-inch front wheel, short
    > wheelbase, long riser: twitchy.
    >
    > mc
     
  9. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Mike Warner wrote:
    >
    > I own a 2002 Rocket, and, as much as I like the bike, I would have to describe the steering as
    > twitchy. It can be be risky taking ONE hand off the handlebar. Try riding a Rocket with no hands.
    >
    > However, attentiveness and expertise *can* throw a patina of "quickness" over that twitchiness.
    >
    > It's a great bike, but, like anything else, there are design tradeoffs. 20-inch front wheel, short
    > wheelbase, long riser: twitchy.

    I can ride my RANS Rocket easily one-handed, including getting water bottles from the holders
    mounted on the seat back. [1] I actually find it easier than riding my MTB with one hand.

    I rode a metric century with a Rocket owner who would ride miles at a time no-handed with very
    little wobble.

    For a twitchy bike, try a 1998 or older Vision 40-series SWB or one of the Hypercycle descendants.

    I doubt the size of the front wheel has much to do with handling in and of itself. My Sunset with an
    ISO 305-mm front wheel is easy to ride at low speeds but is very stable at 50+ mph (80+ kph).

    My Dragonflyer has ISO 406-mm front wheels (same size at the Rocket's), and I can maintain balance
    with no hands at any speed. ;)

    [1] I should point out that experience makes a huge difference - the first several times I tried to
    put back the water bottles on my RANS Wave, I had to stop because of control problems.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  10. Mike Warner <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > R2D2 wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Nice job Larry.
    > >>
    > >> Do those bars calm down that "twitchy" Rocket steering any?
    > >
    > > "Twitchy" implies a type of handling that leads to a tendency to over-control the bike. While
    > > the RANS Rocket certainly has "quick" handling, I would certainly not consider it to be twitchy.
    > >
    > > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
    >
    > I own a 2002 Rocket, and, as much as I like the bike, I would have to describe the steering as
    > twitchy. It can be be risky taking ONE hand off the handlebar. Try riding a Rocket with no hands.
    >
    > However, attentiveness and expertise *can* throw a patina of "quickness" over that twitchiness.
    >
    > It's a great bike, but, like anything else, there are design tradeoffs. 20-inch front wheel, short
    > wheelbase, long riser: twitchy.
    >
    > mc

    My 'Rocchetta" mod involved significant shortening of stock riser-that & the Bacchetta bars
    give a more solid feel. More control while steering w/ one hand but I still wouldn't attempt no
    hands riding
     
  11. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... <snip>
    > For a twitchy bike, try a 1998 or older Vision 40-series SWB or one of the Hypercycle descendants.
    >

    I had a Hypercycle loan for a while and found it to be very stable (no twitchiness) at low to
    moderate speeds. Its tires were a bit dry rotted and I wasn't interested in tempting fate by flying
    down hills so I don't know about high speed stability. I let several people who had never ridden a
    recumbent ride it and none of them had a problem with it. They were surprised how easy it was -USS
    notwithstanding. I[ve always presumed the S&B's and Turner's handling would have been the similar to
    that of the the Hypercycle.

    Several times I've read that Hypercycles were evil handling little beasts, but I don't think the
    folks making the claim had ever ridden one. Recumbent hearsay I'd wager.

    I did ride a pre '98 Vision and found it very twitchy especially compared to the Ryan I was riding
    at the time. The Ryan has most dialed in handling of any recumbent I've ever ridden. It could
    easily be ridden with one hand, but no hands was a no-no. I find riding no hands is a "so what"
    issue anyway.

    Skip
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    skip wrote:
    >
    > "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]... <snip>
    > > For a twitchy bike, try a 1998 or older Vision 40-series SWB or one of the Hypercycle
    > > descendants.
    > >
    >
    > I had a Hypercycle loan for a while and found it to be very stable (no twitchiness) at low to
    > moderate speeds. Its tires were a bit dry rotted and I wasn't interested in tempting fate by
    > flying down hills so I don't know about high speed stability. I let several people who had never
    > ridden a recumbent ride it and none of them had a problem with it. They were surprised how easy it
    > was -USS notwithstanding. I[ve always presumed the S&B's and Turner's handling would have been the
    > similar to that of the the Hypercycle.
    >
    > Several times I've read that Hypercycles were evil handling little beasts, but I don't think the
    > folks making the claim had ever ridden one. Recumbent hearsay I'd wager.
    >
    > I did ride a pre '98 Vision and found it very twitchy especially compared to the Ryan I was riding
    > at the time. The Ryan has most dialed in handling of any recumbent I've ever ridden. It could
    > easily be ridden with one hand, but no hands was a no-no. I find riding no hands is a "so what"
    > issue anyway.
    >
    > Skip

    I have briefly ridden a Turner, and the handling was twitchy enough at lower speeds that I was not
    going to attempt higher speeds. I do find the straight-bar, arms hanging straight down, steering
    position to be very unnatural however. I would not own an USS bike unless it had the steering
    controls higher and more forward, e.g. Haluzak [1], HPVelotechnik, Reynolds Weld Lab.

    [1] I found the Haluzak Horizon to be a very easy bike to ride the first time I tried one.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  13. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    i've owned three haluzak's, longbikes eliminator, two uss visions, a wishbone, a rocket with
    reynolds weld labs uss, and a turner [set up with bar end s like the haluzak and wishbone] I
    preferred the visions the least, too much reach to the bars for my short arms. the indirect steering
    of the Haluzak/Longbikes/Wishbone, all very nice. The Turner was also very nice, rock solid, and I
    liked it better overall, because of the simplicity of the set up, not much to go wrong, and very
    comfortable. Milt Turners bikes are always works in progress, he's very innovative and doing
    "projects". Milt has some definite Ideas about recumbents, from being in the bent business for many
    years. His bikes are VERY size specific, they adjust narrowly in range, and you must get the right
    size, and then do some "dialing in" with the seat to pedal distance and recline. That "dialing in"
    period takes some patience. Once Dialed in, it works very, very well. His Hardshell seat is designed
    to sit a little more upright than many Euro hardshells i've tried, it is in my opinion, and the
    esteemed Bryan Ball's [Bentrideronline.com] opinion "one of the most comfortable hardshell seats
    i've ever sat on" The welds are nice on the frame, and powdercoat nice, a very stiff and efficent
    frame. The most simplistic, but effective single return side idler i've ridden with. Milt is a small
    custom maker, there are always pro's and con's to that format, but in my 15 years of recumbent
    riding, i've always thourghly enjoyed the custom experience, of Turner, Lemle, Reynolds weld labs
    etc. Just my two cents for what it's worth [probably not worth much eh?] and I don't work for any of
    the above mentioned companies

    Tom Sherman wrote:
    > skip wrote:
    >
    >>"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]... <snip>
    >>
    >>>For a twitchy bike, try a 1998 or older Vision 40-series SWB or one of the Hypercycle
    >>>descendants.
    >>>
    >>
    >>I had a Hypercycle loan for a while and found it to be very stable (no twitchiness) at low to
    >>moderate speeds. Its tires were a bit dry rotted and I wasn't interested in tempting fate by
    >>flying down hills so I don't know about high speed stability. I let several people who had never
    >>ridden a recumbent ride it and none of them had a problem with it. They were surprised how easy it
    >>was -USS notwithstanding. I[ve always presumed the S&B's and Turner's handling would have been the
    >>similar to that of the the Hypercycle.
    >>
    >>Several times I've read that Hypercycles were evil handling little beasts, but I don't think the
    >>folks making the claim had ever ridden one. Recumbent hearsay I'd wager.
    >>
    >>I did ride a pre '98 Vision and found it very twitchy especially compared to the Ryan I was riding
    >>at the time. The Ryan has most dialed in handling of any recumbent I've ever ridden. It could
    >>easily be ridden with one hand, but no hands was a no-no. I find riding no hands is a "so what"
    >>issue anyway.
    >>
    >>Skip
    >
    >
    > I have briefly ridden a Turner, and the handling was twitchy enough at lower speeds that I was not
    > going to attempt higher speeds. I do find the straight-bar, arms hanging straight down, steering
    > position to be very unnatural however. I would not own an USS bike unless it had the steering
    > controls higher and more forward, e.g. Haluzak [1], HPVelotechnik, Reynolds Weld Lab.
    >
    > [1] I found the Haluzak Horizon to be a very easy bike to ride the first time I tried one.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  14. Mark Stonich

    Mark Stonich Guest

    Different strokes for different folks.

    A Bachetta rider recently contacted me about cloning the Rans SWB bar for his Aero. After much
    experimentation he gave up on trying to get comfortable with the stock bars. He "borrowed" the bars
    off his V-Rex and liked them much better. BTW If I rode a bike with a Bachetta like Seat/BB/HT
    relationship, I'd make bars similar to those on the Barcroft Oregon http://www.barcroftcycles.com
     
  15. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    Mark Stonich wrote: [...]
    > BTW If I rode a bike with a Bachetta like Seat/BB/HT relationship, I'd make bars similar to those
    > on the Barcroft Oregon http://www.barcroftcycles.com

    I haven't been to that site in awhile. Wow, is Bill thinking of doing a b to b tandem? Looks like.

    John Riley
     
  16. R2D2

    R2D2 New Member

    Joined:
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    Very good discussion here. :D

    Ride a stock Rocket side by side with a stock Giro. I've owned both, and have always called the Rocket steering "twitchy" - my own words (I know, it's not scientific). Personal preference dictates whether one prefers this or not.

    There are a Lot of design factors that determine how a bike rides and handles. Larry altered a number of them when he modified his steering setup. Handlebar width, handlebar sweep, handlebar angle, handlebar height, how close the hand position is to the axis of the head tube, and how far the hands are from the body.

    Knowing that installing Bacchetta's "Tweaner" bar would affect steering significantly (as Larry obviously determined), I was just curious as to what extent.

    Several factors that affect steering that he did not modify are trail, head-tube angle, steerer riser offset (at the pivot point), fork rake, wheel diameter, wheelbase, weight distribution, tire size, to name a few.

    Of course it's all personal preference. Gotta ride 'em. One thing I've found in the 'Bent community is that there is a tremendous amount of loyalty to their bikes. One reason being is that the diversity of designs is so Huge. (Just how much can you you alter a Wedgie nowadays anyway? "Hey guys, I just switched from a 7 degree to a 5 degree stem!" ;) ) I still ride my Wedgies too.

    Another thing I appreciate about the community as a whole and this forum in particular is the sincerity and courtesy exhibited by the riders/posters. Nowhere else in the bicycling community do you find this (discussion instead of flaming).

    Have a good ride,
    R2
     
  17. Dstra999

    Dstra999 Guest

    >steering "twitchy

    I bought a rocket this winter (B-day present to myself) and have only put on a couple hundred
    miles....but can ride it hands free better than I ever rode any of my DFs. I think this is because
    of the lower center of gravity and that I can guide the tiller a little with my knees.

    Dave
     
  18. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    R2D2 wrote:
    > ... There are a Lot of design factors that determine how a bike rides and handles. Larry altered a
    > number of them when he modified his steering setup. Handlebar width, handlebar sweep, handlebar
    > angle, handlebar height, how close the hand position is to the axis of the head tube, and how far
    > the hands are from the body....

    Another factor in handling that is important in the cases of bikes with sliding seats such as the
    Rocket and Giro is the center of gravity. Handling will be different for a short-legged rider
    compared to a longer legged rider, all else being equal.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  19. Harv

    Harv Guest

    Must be pretty serious thinking...there was one at Northbrook this summer. "John Riley"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Mark Stonich wrote: [...]
    > > BTW If I rode a bike with a Bachetta like Seat/BB/HT relationship, I'd make bars similar to
    > > those on the Barcroft Oregon http://www.barcroftcycles.com
    >
    > I haven't been to that site in awhile. Wow, is Bill thinking of doing a b to b tandem? Looks like.
    >
    > John Riley
     
  20. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    I have a V-Rex modified with the Bachetta riser and "similar" bars. I like the way it handles, but
    can't really say the mechanics of steering changed much. My ability to modulate the steering and
    have more control over it probably changed though. It's just that the hands-in-front position has
    those characteristics.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "R2D2" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Very good discussion here. :D
    >
    > Ride a stock Rocket side by side with a stock Giro. I've owned both, and have always called the
    > Rocket steering "twitchy" - my own words (I know, it's not scientific). Personal preference
    > dictates whether one prefers this or not.
    >
    > There are a Lot of design factors that determine how a bike rides and handles. Larry altered a
    > number of them when he modified his steering setup. Handlebar width, handlebar sweep, handlebar
    > angle, handlebar height, how close the hand position is to the axis of the head tube, and how far
    > the hands are from the body.
    >
    > Knowing that installing Bacchetta's "Tweaner" bar would affect steering significantly (as Larry
    > obviously determined), I was just curious as to what extent.
    >
    > Several factors that affect steering that he did not modify are trail, head-tube angle, steerer
    > riser offset (at the pivot point), fork rake, wheel diameter, wheelbase, weight distribution, tire
    > size, to name a few.
    >
    > Of course it's all personal preference. Gotta ride 'em. One thing I've found in the 'Bent
    > community is that there is a tremendous amount of loyalty to their bikes. One reason being is that
    > the diversity of designs is so Huge. (Just how much can you you alter a Wedgie nowadays anyway?
    > "Hey guys, I just switched from a 7 degree to a 5 degree stem!" ;) ) I still ride my Wedgies too.
    >
    > Another thing I appreciate about the community as a whole and this forum in particular is the
    > sincerity and courtesy exhibited by the riders/posters. Nowhere else in the bicycling community do
    > you find this (discussion instead of flaming).
    >
    > Have a good ride, R2
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > >--------------------------<
    > Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
     
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