Roche's C.E.R.A.; Blood fuel for Champs!

Discussion in 'Doping in Cycling' started by Flyer, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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  2. House

    House Banned

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  3. wolfix

    wolfix New Member

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  4. tcklyde

    tcklyde New Member

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    Procycling did a really brief article on the history of doping three or four months ago, which contains details on Eddy's positives (as well as a picture of him laying on a bed and balling after, I think, his positive at the Giro). It also contains numerous reports of him laughing about how universal doping was.
     
  5. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    And it is a 125 year history of doping in cycling!

    On the contrary, I am most fascinated by activities and enterprises which captivate and deceive people who become unwittlingly and emotionally attached to fairytales. Fairytales which amount to fraud (commercial & sporting) and deception on a massive scale.

    I am also fascinated by the New York Stock Exchange (another black box of legalized skimming) and corrupt accounting for Fortune 500 Wall Street publicly traded entities.

    The difference is: On Wall Street the traders are not falling over dead every sixty days---and there are many more employees in finanical services than race bicycles.

    There are few televised sports which can be observed that are not fueled by synthetic drugs---including rodeo/ bull riding!

    If it makes you feel better I spend most of my time at amateur races far away from current pro racers---but with a few of retired ones present still.

    There is so much more to the doping, denials, and fraud problem in sport that we could discuss, but many LA fans are so deep in personal denial that such a discussion is pointless.

    When Lance Armstrong retires, a much more comprehensive and robust doping forum should begin. Just 90 days to go!


     
  6. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    In addition, the Phil Liggett marketed video series offers one tape (now on DVD) entitled Le Course en Tete featuring Eddie Merckx's career and life---INCLUDING a 20 second clip from the 1969 Giro di Italia whereupon Eddie is balling like a little baby as he learns of his doping test and his PR problem and his likely DQ.

    House would be shocked to see and here this video---so I do not recommend he do so. Not unless he were heavily medicated.

    Besides, it's just a jealous rumor. Even if the cycling shill, Phill Leggett markets it.

    House is a perfect example of why doping cover-ups are so easy to do and why US firms invest $263 billion in commercial advertising each year.

    House must be made of cardboard!



     
  7. House

    House Banned

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    I did read that but I want to see Flyer produce the actual admission from 1988, no wait the 70's, you know the one that is about the only thing not posted on the net these days. Flyer is just entangling himself in his BS. He gets called out and runs away. Notice how he has avoided actually answering me. He has no real answer.
     
  8. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    BS?

    Hardly.

    Do your own research. I have provided you will plenty of information---and you have responded with ad hominem attacks.

    Your opinions do not change Eddie Merkx problems with stimulants or Lance's possesion of Actovegin, insulin and corticosteroids.

    It is what it is.

    Here's another hormone found in Lance Armstrong in 1996--somehow never discovered by doping control?
    Why did not Ferrari take action? Or did he inject it?

    Go look it up.

    Only pregnant men, cancer stricken and/or pro cyclists seem to have this female hormone in their system.

    (hCG) Human Chorionic Gondaotropin

    Ain't cycling grand?




     
  9. lumpy

    lumpy New Member

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    HCG essentially boosts testosterone levels. It's popular with guys doing lots of steroids whose balls have shrunken and they want them back into "full swing".
    Insulin is also used by bodybuilders to promote muscle building.
     
  10. tcklyde

    tcklyde New Member

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    While I strongly disagree with Flyer linking recreational drug use to doping (a la Pantani), frankly Flyer knows a hell of lot more about doping in cycling than anyone else here.

    Merckx doped. So did tons of riders, famous and obscure. And you're complaining about the lack of a hyperlink? Look for the sandwiches and mineral water quote. And I'm thinking of that off the top of my head.
     
  11. House

    House Banned

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    A) Flyer knows where to find a lot of links that support his agenda, most of which are not from reputable sources. These prooves nothing about knowledge. I guarantee I could pick a topic for you and you could look like you know something about it on a message board by posting a few links and saying a few things over and over. If you really think Flyer is so knowledgeable about doping then I have some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you.

    B) It isn't about the hyperlink so much as about Flyer saying things but never having any real proof and when called ou never stepping up. Hell, he can't even get the year of this admission straight and then he says it can't be on the net because it occured before the net. He, for once, almost, made an attempt to step up and put his foot in a big pile of it.

    You can go on believing Flyer,. but just make sure to close your eyes when he posts, lies, half-truths and conveniently leaves out one entire side of the facts. Have fun believing in the biggest joke on these boards.
     
  12. Perro Loco

    Perro Loco New Member

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    A few facts- while I suspect a few cyclists will use CERA I doubt it will gain much favor.

    You can increase your hematocrit two ways- transfusion or increase production of red cells such as giving Epo or now potentialy CERA. CERA is not magical, it is asmall molocule that binds to the receptor for epo and does the same thing as epo. It appears to have a more sustained activity probably through several actions having to do with receptor binding and disassociation.
    Problem for use in doping. Half life appears to be greater than 130 hours. So it can be detected in the blood for a fairly long time. Second, it will result in a much longer persistance of increased reticulocytes which is one of the markers looked at now.
    To put it simply CERA can be thought of as acting similarly to epo but with a more prolonged effect. The ideal doping agent is one that is cleared fast. As you have probably noticed more cyclists appear to drfting back to the old transfusion methods as epo becomes harder to use.
     
  13. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Riiiiight.......

    Half truths and jealous lies is my business.


    Lots of dead bodies washing up every 60 days confirms my jealous conspiracy.

    Of course it's especially ironic that my helpers in crime, David Millar, Alex Zulle, Oscar Camenzind, Tyler Hamilton, Santiago Perez, Frank Vandenbroucke, Johnan Museeuw, and so many more admitted trauma and anemia dopers validate my half-truths.

    btw: Johan Sermon died at age 21, on the very same day Marco Pantani did. And cocaine is hardly a recreational drug for an athlete. The Pot Belge is a standard business product (heroin, coke, mophine & corticosteroids) so, if anything Pantani was using less potent supplies.

    House's point is clear---he has no point. Just likes to make counter noise re: the actual truth while blowing off meanspirited ad hominem attacks.

    Meanwhile drugs such as C.E.R.A. and other rejuvenators are being considered. Added with HBOCs which the US Navy has helped fund for warfare and Navy Seal deep dives, blood doping
    is here to stay.

    Get ready for gene doping too.



     
  14. wilmar13

    wilmar13 New Member

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    Sign me up! I chose pretty good parents all things considered, but hey there is still room for improvement. At the very least I hope to be able to engineer my children. :D
     
  15. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    In the meanwhile your kids can ingest plain old steroids--s/b cheaper than gene dope:

    If 9 year girls do can it, think of what a TDF Champion can handle?

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-04-25-girls-steroids_x.htm

    It helps engineer a demand for coffins too!


     
  16. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    btw: wilmar13.

    If you use Insulin or a diuretic w/o a purpose or w/o other products working in tandem---you may die!

    I have been on two cycling tours in Italy & France whereby two riders in our group used daily injections of insulin AND glucose. My vascular surgeon friend & I were very concerned--since these two had no medical background. This proves another point, no medical background is required to dope---but you do so at your peril!

    I have no idea what the doses or ratios were for the Isulin/glucose injection---or how many years these two NON-diabetics had practiced their 'rejuvenation routines'. One drug (hormone) always begets the use/abuse of another.

    It did seem to work for them as they rode strong and consistenty for 14 days in a row, and over 1,100 miles in various temperature, conditions and terrain.

    Diuretics are used for doping evasion or weigh-in performances by boxers, wrestlers. Cyclists would use it to promote the 'washing machine' cleansing assumeing they had traces of 'detectable drugs (stimulants)' still in their system after 5 hours of racing' Drinking a liter of water and pissing it out might further 'wash-out' the machine.

    If you think it is BS, then Lance Armstrong and Marco Pantani are the King BSers because both have been caught with insulin.

    In addition, the BALCO case revealed that Marion Jones, Kelli White, Jason Giambi, and many others used insulin.

    Pretty standard for anabolic training and Grand Tour Stage race recovery.

    Hell, even my cycling tour used it!

    Another example is the combination of testosterone (pills, patches, creams or injections) with the female hormone Clomid for better effectivess.

    hCG can boost the Epitestosterone and thus assist in passing a T/E test, thereby masking the 4 to 1, 6 to 1 T/E ratio screens. The athlete can still be 'off-the charts for total testosterone, while appearing to be in full compliance at the new 4/1 ratio.

    btw: Lance had plenty of hCG in his system in 1996 which was another deafening wake-up call for doping.

    That Cancer story has a lot more chapters than Sally Jenkins was paid to write.


     
  17. House

    House Banned

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    Only flyer would use a well known test marker for testicular cancer in a person who had this type of cancer as proof of doping. He continues to bury himself with stupidity.
     
  18. wilmar13

    wilmar13 New Member

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    I never said or meant to imply it was BS, I only wanted to understand because it is counterintuitive to the way I understood insulin to work. The diuretic use makes sense in that respect...it is like using golden seal to avoid showing positive for Pot on your work physical I guess.
     
  19. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    And to reveal House's lack of credibility which is pretty easy to do. hCG is injected as a T/E test helper or to come off a steroid stacking period or to promote pregnacy in men?

    In house's world "a commercial scripted one' noboday dopes. Or only the wrong-doers dope---but only if they confess, that leaves 99% of his athletes denying jealous rumors and advertising fees can be paid w/o interruption.

    House is not real, just spam.



     
  20. House

    House Banned

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    I'll make a bet with you:

    If you find one post where I say nobody dopes I'll start a thread lauding your great wisdom and never post here again. If you can't then you start a thread with one post acknowlidging that you lie, tell half-truths and leave out certain facts and then never post here again. It's 10:28am, I'll give you 24 hours. You up for the challenge? Or will continue to spout lies about people who post here? I'm going with #2...it's the way you do everything here...cowardly.
     
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