Rohloff Hub Gears



On 22 Jun 2007 14:23:44 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Quoting Brendan Halpin <[email protected]>:
>>David Damerell <[email protected]> writes:
>>>Gears are for hills. That's just playing at being a lorry driver again. It
>>>won't get you away any faster - slower, probably, if you've got to upshift
>>>in front.

>>If you use the same gears pulling off from a stop as you do
>>cruising along at 25-35 km/h then you clearly need a fixie.

>
>I don't know about _need_, but certainly anyone who thinks a simple stop
>needs a front shift or 8 clicks of a Rohloff should watch a few fixed
>riders get away from a stop. No clicking through the gearbox there!


Who said anything about *needing* to change down 8 gears? People
don't buy a Rohloff because of need, they buy one because of comfort
and convenience.

I don't change down eight gears at lights because of need, I do it for
comfort and convenience - and because I can.
 
Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:24:41 -0700, squeaker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Getting back to the OP, what about noise? I've heard that they are
>>noisy, especially in certain gears (users who also drive diesel cars
>>need not comment).

>
>
> I love the noise in gear 7 - it'm a gentle humm of precision cogs
> meshing in a bed of oil.


Yours must be better than mine, cos one at least is just plain noisy. A
mate has just acquired one, which from new, is quieter than mine. It
was part of a built up bike, whereas both mine are out the box. I've
also noticed mine is quieter in summer.

The quieter of my two seems fine, you can only really hear gear 7, but
the other, as I say, is noisy.
 
Walney wrote:
> As the O.P. (nearly an OAP), I'd just like to thank all those who
> responded. It seems to have sparked quite a debate. And there's me
> just wondering if a Rohloff would be as helpful on hills as a
> Megarange! Perhaps I'll just stick to my tried-and-trusted Galaxy.


No no, we can go on for ages yet. You just sit tight and watch ok?

Somewhere up there ----^ someone noted just how easy it is to change
the range because all you have to do is change one front ring, no
worries about overlap etc. I've done this[1]and can attest its simple.
Yes, you could do it on a triple, but you'd lose gears unless you
worked out the middle and small rings.

For me though, if you *have* a Rohloff, there is no going back, if you
don't is arguable if they are worth the money.

[1] I had a stupidly high gearing for my needs and dropped a teeth on
the front. Also, you can get HeBe chain gliders for them giving an
enclosed chain.
 
in message <gvD*[email protected]>, David Damerell
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Quoting Alistair Gunn <[email protected]>:
>>David Damerell twisted the electrons to say:
>>>Quoting Tom Crispin <[email protected]>:
>>>>No more arriving at traffic lights in 11th gear then changing to 3rd
>>>>while waiting for them to change.
>>>Why would you _want_ to change down eight gears just to pull away from
>>>the lights? Do you secretly want to be a lorry driver or something?

>>So how many gears do you think he should be shifting between?

>
> I'm not sure there's a "should" here but fixed fans don't seem to
> experience any difficulty getting away, so I can't see that there can be
> any advantage to going below 75" or so. Conveniently, this is a neat fit
> for me, who generally rides around in an 81" gear and drops one shift
> position to a 69" at a stop.
>
> Conversely eight steps of a Rohloff are worth about a 70% reduction. In
> other words, if the OP was cruising in a pretty big 90" gear, he's going
> to be in a 28" gear after the stop. My absolute minimum Cornish hill gear
> is only a 26.4". He's going to spin that out almost before he's finished
> the first revolution!
>
> 28"'s good for about 6mph at a cadence between 70-80rpm. One good shove
> in a normal gear and you're already at 6mph. What's the point here?


You're making assumptions about how big a gear he cruises in and how fast
he can spin during starting acceleration. As said before, I'll typically
start in 39x18, which is 56.9", and I typically cruise in gears around the
90" mark - 53x16 +- one tooth on the back.

That works for me. But I'm not fool enough to assume that works for me
works for everyone. If Tom chooses to start in a 28" gear, that's kinder
on his knees and on his machinery.

> Something I've noticed on the tandem is that if the gear's too low at a
> start, it causes problems - the right-hand pedal's moved to the bottom of
> the stroke before my right leg is straight, because there wasn't enough
> resistance.


So because /you/ have problems with /your/ bike handling skills, Tom's
wrong?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Robert Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'
 
David Damerell twisted the electrons to say:
> >Shifting 8 gears for traffic lights doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
> >I tend to cruise in middle-7, and start in middle-1 on my 'bent ...

> But on a recumbent you don't have the option of just slapping your weight
> on the pedal for the first revolution.


.... but I can certainly just press back against the seat until either it
or my knees explode!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
David Damerell wrote:
>
> But a desire to indulge in pointless lever-flapping isn't a good reason
> for a third party seeking advice on whether to buy a Rohloff.


ITYM "I can't see any point in what he does so is therefore daft",
or that's how it comes across.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:
> David Damerell twisted the electrons to say:
>>> Shifting 8 gears for traffic lights doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
>>> I tend to cruise in middle-7, and start in middle-1 on my 'bent ...

>> But on a recumbent you don't have the option of just slapping your weight
>> on the pedal for the first revolution.

>
> ... but I can certainly just press back against the seat until either it
> or my knees explode!


Indeed. One of Ben Cooper's projects is a single speed
Streetmachine which he appears happy to ride around the (non-flat)
environs of Bearsden.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Quoting Peter Clinch <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>But a desire to indulge in pointless lever-flapping isn't a good reason
>>for a third party seeking advice on whether to buy a Rohloff.

>ITYM "I can't see any point in what he does so is therefore daft",


I can't see any point in what he does _and_ manifestly what he does is not
at all necessary.

If I'd said "I can't see any point in shifting down 8 gears just to climb
a great big hill", it would be easy to show how many people do have great
difficulty climbing hills without low gears, and hence that there is a
point whether or not I can see it.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Olethros, Presuary - a weekend.
 
Quoting Simon Brooke <[email protected]>:
>('[email protected]') wrote:
>>Conversely eight steps of a Rohloff are worth about a 70% reduction. In
>>other words, if the OP was cruising in a pretty big 90" gear, he's going
>>to be in a 28" gear after the stop.

>You're making assumptions about how big a gear he cruises in


More than 90" would be a bit unusual, especially for someone who doesn't
mind spinning a bit.

>and how fast he can spin during starting acceleration.


Nope. No matter how fast you can spin, if one good shove will get you up
to the same speed, why bother?

>>Something I've noticed on the tandem is that if the gear's too low at a
>>start, it causes problems - the right-hand pedal's moved to the bottom of
>>the stroke before my right leg is straight, because there wasn't enough
>>resistance.

>So because /you/ have problems with /your/ bike handling skills,


I know you love the personal attacks, but that a given gear gets the pedal
down before the body gets up is just a matter of weights and leverages.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Olethros, Presuary - a weekend.
 
David Damerell wrote:

> I can't see any point in what he does _and_ manifestly what he does is not
> at all necessary.


It is not /necessary/ to have any more than 1 gear at all, or even two
wheels, handlebars and brakes So what?

Since *he* clearly sees a point in it, backed up with experience of
having the ability to do it, and also of not having the ability to do
it, that *you* can't see a point is frankly pretty moot because if
you're not in a position to appreciate Tom's views, you can't be sure
you can clearly interpret the OP's potential preferences.

Different people like different things for different reasons. That
doesn't make them "wrong" because you don't need or want what they want.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
On 25 Jun 2007 16:11:23 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Quoting Peter Clinch <[email protected]>:
>>David Damerell wrote:
>>>But a desire to indulge in pointless lever-flapping isn't a good reason
>>>for a third party seeking advice on whether to buy a Rohloff.

>>ITYM "I can't see any point in what he does so is therefore daft",

>
>I can't see any point in what he does _and_ manifestly what he does is not
>at all necessary.


How many gear inches would you recommend for starting from rest for a
large man (16 - 17st) wanting a good start from an ASL box on a level
road?
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:
>
>> I can't see any point in what he does _and_ manifestly what he does is
>> not
>> at all necessary.

>
> Different people like different things for different reasons. That
> doesn't make them "wrong" because you don't need or want what they want.


Sorry Pete, but I have to disagree with you. David is correct, we all
should change our riding styles to be just like him and only change the
bare minimum amount of gears in any one go. It will save all that wear
and tear on the cables.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the
legislature is in session." (Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.)
 
Alistair Gunn <[email protected]> wrote:
> David Damerell twisted the electrons to say:
>> Quoting Tom Crispin <[email protected]>:
>> >No more arriving at traffic lights in 11th gear then changing to 3rd
>> >while waiting for them to change.

>> Why would you _want_ to change down eight gears just to pull away from the
>> lights? Do you secretly want to be a lorry driver or something?


> So how many gears do you think he should be shifting between? Or to put
> it another way, do you think he should be cruising in a lower gear or
> setting off in a higher gear?


> Shifting 8 gears for traffic lights doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.
> I tend to cruise in middle-7, and start in middle-1 on my 'bent ...


It occurs to me that some of these posters are cycling in cities where
most of the traffic lights aren't on hills :)

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
Quoting Peter Clinch <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>I can't see any point in what he does _and_ manifestly what he does is not
>>at all necessary.

>It is not /necessary/ to have any more than 1 gear at all,


You've neatly elided the part where I explain what I mean in order that
you can cherry-pick an interpretation of "necessary" that's a straw man.

Try again.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, Presuary.
 
Quoting Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>:
>It occurs to me that some of these posters are cycling in cities where
>most of the traffic lights aren't on hills :)


Well, yes. In a city with proper hills you wouldn't be shifting down eight
gears at a set of traffic lights because you wouldn't have eight more
gears to shift.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, Presuary.
 
David Damerell wrote:

> You've neatly elided the part where I explain what I mean in order that
> you can cherry-pick an interpretation of "necessary" that's a straw man.
>
> Try again.


Ah, so you can pick something /you/ regard as unnecessary and that's a
concrete end point that should apparently apply to anyone else, but if
anyone cherry-picks an interpretation then that's a Poor Show...

Just because something isn't necessary doesn't mean it's undesirable.
Just because that something isn't desirable to you does not mean it is
not desirable for anyone else.

Tom has done an identical trip with a Rohloff and with derailleurs. He
prefers the Rohloff, in part because it allows him to do something he
/actually does/ which is change down 8 stood still at lights. He
prefers that, therefore it is worth something to him. It is his
decision as to how much, not yours.

What part of that do you fail to grasp?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
In article <qMr*[email protected]>, David Damerell wrote:
>Quoting Chris Malcolm <[email protected]>:
>>It occurs to me that some of these posters are cycling in cities where
>>most of the traffic lights aren't on hills :)

>
>Well, yes. In a city with proper hills you wouldn't be shifting down eight
>gears at a set of traffic lights because you wouldn't have eight more
>gears to shift.


That you are going to pull away from a junction uphill doesn't mean that
you were necessarily travelling uphill shortly before arriving at the
junction.
 
Alan Braggins wrote:

> That you are going to pull away from a junction uphill doesn't mean that
> you were necessarily travelling uphill shortly before arriving at the
> junction.


Exhibit A: a short radius hump back bridge.

Exhibit B: the city of Dundee, which tends to be fairly flat E-W and
remarkably unflat N-S. The lights at the bottom of Hilltown (clue in
the name there) are a particular case in point.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Quoting Peter Clinch <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>You've neatly elided the part where I explain what I mean in order that
>>you can cherry-pick an interpretation of "necessary" that's a straw man.

>Ah, so you can pick something /you/ regard as unnecessary


It's not a matter of what I regard as unnecessary. There's a lot of
smokescreening here to conceal the simple fact that a person of normal
fitness does not need to change down eight gears in order to get a bicycle
moving promptly.

>Tom has done an identical trip with a Rohloff and with derailleurs. He
>prefers the Rohloff, in part because it allows him to do something he
>/actually does/ which is change down 8 stood still at lights. He
>prefers that, therefore it is worth something to him.


But that doesn't make it of any particular value to a third-party. If you
like pointless gear changes, fine - but you might as well advise a third
party to hang streamers off the end of the handlebars because you
personally like them.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, Presuary.
 
Quoting Alan Braggins <[email protected]>:
>That you are going to pull away from a junction uphill doesn't mean that
>you were necessarily travelling uphill shortly before arriving at the
>junction.


Yes, lots of gears can provide a real benefit in hilly terrain. Is anyone
disputing that? I'm not.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is First Monday, Presuary.