Rotor Cranks? What Else Is There?



Bob wrote:
> Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> >
> > Don't worry, once you are out on your 'bent, all the girls will throw
> > themselves at you.

>
> If you're relying on your choice of transportation to help you get
> girls you'll have a lot more luck riding *in* a Benz than *on* a 'bent.
> Just FYI. ;-)


Actually, a 'bent should be about the same in that regard as a
rusted-out 300TD wagon with mismatched quarter panels, bike rack, and a
"powered by waste vegetable oil" sticker.

Chalo
 
Chalo wrote:

> Clipless shoes in large sizes are scarce and expensive. Clipless shoes
> in _any_ size are uncomfortable for use off the bike.


Oh. Nobody seems to have told my feet... I'm quite comfortable
walking about in SD-60s, my old Specialized Rockhoppers or the
Diadora shoes I recently replaced them with. On a week's summer
tour in 2004 the SD-60s were the only footwear I took with me, and
no regrets.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
NYC XYZ wrote:

> Ah, well I didn't know about the cost factor being "very
> significant"...but Velovision, in that issue with the Hase Ti-Pino
> reader review, tested Rotor cranks and found them to be a very modest
> ~5% increase in speed, and noticeably more comfortable, though nothing
> life-changing or revolutionary.


And other people have tested them and found them not to really do
anything much. The jury is still very much out. I'm not saying
they don't/can't help, just that the writing isn't on the wall in
unremovable neon paint with letters 5 miles high like it is with
clipless pedals, and the Rotors do cost a lot I'd sooner spend on
something else.

When professional racers, who make more money by going faster, and
record attempt machines start to use Rotors in significant numbers
then I'll /really/ take notice. At the moment they don't, and they
do use cycling shoes and clipless pedals.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> Chalo wrote:
>
> > Clipless shoes in large sizes are scarce and expensive. Clipless shoes
> > in _any_ size are uncomfortable for use off the bike.

>
> Oh. Nobody seems to have told my feet... I'm quite comfortable
> walking about in SD-60s, my old Specialized Rockhoppers or the
> Diadora shoes I recently replaced them with.


Yeah. When I was 21, I weighed about 65% of what I do now, and I was
content walking and standing in Specialized SPD shoes-- and in Converse
Chuck Taylors, and Teva sandals, and rock-hard Red Wing logger boots.
I didn't have to distinguish between comfortable and uncomfortable
shoes for most activities. But now I do have to make that distinction,
and clipless shoes don't cut it (at least not the three kinds of
"walkable" shoes I've owned).

Chalo
 
chalo colina wrote:
> Bob wrote:
> > Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't worry, once you are out on your 'bent, all the girls will throw
> > > themselves at you.

> >
> > If you're relying on your choice of transportation to help you get
> > girls you'll have a lot more luck riding *in* a Benz than *on* a 'bent.
> > Just FYI. ;-)

>
> Actually, a 'bent should be about the same in that regard as a
> rusted-out 300TD wagon with mismatched quarter panels, bike rack, and a
> "powered by waste vegetable oil" sticker.


A lot of women find my Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [1] cute.

[1] Not mine, but similar:
<http://individual.utoronto.ca/nogami/bikes/roster/sunset/sunsidesm.JPG>.

--
Tom Sherman
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

> Clipless shoes in large sizes are scarce and expensive. Clipless shoes
> in _any_ size are uncomfortable for use off the bike. And all of them
> look like ****, whether they look like non-bike shoes or not. Would it
> kill a manufacturer to make _one_ model of cilpless shoe that looked
> like... y'know, a shoe some reasonably discriminating person would wear
> anyway?
>
> E.g. one of these:
> http://web.ivenue.com/chetsshoestore/images/4070.jpg
>
> I'd be all over that-- if it came in size 15, anyway.



Two thoughts:

1. Not quite as fancy, but by old black Race Vogs look at home with a
good wool suit and power tie. Black dress shoes with recessed SPDs,
don't know if they came as large as a 15 though.

2. It's not that hard to convert any shoe with a reasonably-thick
sole to clipless. I have clipless boots that work very well for
winter riding, and they don't look at all like bike-geek shoes.
(They started as recessed-Look-cleated boots for mountain biking in
the days before SPDs, now they have SPD cleats instead.)

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Infrared Photography Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/irbooks.html>
 
Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
> 1. Not quite as fancy, but by old black Race Vogs look at home with a
> good wool suit and power tie. Black dress shoes with recessed SPDs,
> don't know if they came as large as a 15 though.


That would work, except that they're not made any more. And Fluevogs
top out at size 13, because evidently nobody wears bigger shoes than
that.

Heck, I wear overalls every day, I don't need anything remotely fancy.
But when I try to wear dorky slave-made athletic shoes pieced together
out of umpteen little bits of stuff, I feel like an oaf. I can't help
it; it just looks about as cool as acne or basketball jerseys to me.

> 2. It's not that hard to convert any shoe with a reasonably-thick
> sole to clipless. I have clipless boots that work very well for
> winter riding, and they don't look at all like bike-geek shoes.
> (They started as recessed-Look-cleated boots for mountain biking in
> the days before SPDs, now they have SPD cleats instead.)


I've considered doing this to shoes or boots I like. But then I've
considered making my own platform pedals from scratch, too. If I ever
got around to it, either of these things might be pretty satisfying.
In the meantime there are a number of BMX pedals that work well enough,
don't cost much, and don't break off.

Chalo Colina
 
NYC XYZ said:
I'd love to try one out...sounds interesting, and seems to deal with
the knee/ankle issues that clips/clipless do.


If I had not had the oppurtunity to test ride Rotors they would have been after trying BeBops. Lots of testimonials about BeBops and knees out there on the net. Rotors are pricey and the performance benefit is still up for considerable debate, as this thread shows. With stock cranks, after 5 miles my left knee felt the dead spot, the right did not. Performance was not my issue. As far as knee/ankle issues, here is an interesting read: http://www.angletechcycles.com/notsausage/pedals_shoes.htm

NYC XYZ said:
Hmm...wonder how this HP Velotechnik SMGTe will do. Would a helmet add or detract from making an impression?
If the SMGTe does not cause them to look, try begging. Without a helmet? The women I find attractive are less than impressed with folks who care so little about themselves they ride without one.

While on the subject of transport as a means of attracting females, well, recently ran into a guy I knew back in the dark ages. Over lunch, he commented that he still couldn't get the time of day with women, even though he now owned a high end Corvette. As a general observation, the difference was that before he was a pencil necked geek. Now, he is a pencil necked geek with a Corvette.
 
chalo colina wrote:

> Yeah. When I was 21, I weighed about 65% of what I do now, and I was
> content walking and standing in Specialized SPD shoes-- and in Converse
> Chuck Taylors, and Teva sandals, and rock-hard Red Wing logger boots.
> I didn't have to distinguish between comfortable and uncomfortable
> shoes for most activities. But now I do have to make that distinction,
> and clipless shoes don't cut it


If you're overweight I wouldn't say that's a fair reason to suggest
cycling shoes as being universally uncomfortable, period, especially as
the OP may well not be overweight.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
chalo colina wrote:
> Joshua Putnam wrote:
>
>>1. Not quite as fancy, but by old black Race Vogs look at home with a
>>good wool suit and power tie. Black dress shoes with recessed SPDs,
>>don't know if they came as large as a 15 though.

>
>
> That would work, except that they're not made any more. And Fluevogs
> top out at size 13, because evidently nobody wears bigger shoes than
> that.
>
> Heck, I wear overalls every day, I don't need anything remotely fancy.
> But when I try to wear dorky slave-made athletic shoes pieced together
> out of umpteen little bits of stuff, I feel like an oaf. I can't help
> it; it just looks about as cool as acne or basketball jerseys to me.
>
>
>>2. It's not that hard to convert any shoe with a reasonably-thick
>>sole to clipless. I have clipless boots that work very well for
>>winter riding, and they don't look at all like bike-geek shoes.
>>(They started as recessed-Look-cleated boots for mountain biking in
>>the days before SPDs, now they have SPD cleats instead.)

>
>
> I've considered doing this to shoes or boots I like. But then I've
> considered making my own platform pedals from scratch, too. If I ever
> got around to it, either of these things might be pretty satisfying.
> In the meantime there are a number of BMX pedals that work well enough,
> don't cost much, and don't break off.
>
> Chalo Colina
>


I feel your pain (also being a size 15+). I noticed recently that Sidi
makes a police patrol shoe. Sidi also makes shoes to size 52 (actually a
little too big for me) in some models. Don't know if they make the cop
shoe in big sizes though.

Clipless are great, but if I had to wear shoes that didn't work I'd just
give them up, they're not that important.
 
Hull 697 wrote:
>
>
> If I had not had the oppurtunity to test ride Rotors they would have
> been after trying BeBops. Lots of testimonials about BeBops and knees
> out there on the net. Rotors are pricey and the performance benefit is
> still up for considerable debate, as this thread shows. With stock
> cranks, after 5 miles my left knee felt the dead spot, the right did
> not. Performance was not my issue. As far as knee/ankle issues, here is
> an interesting read:
> http://www.angletechcycles.com/notsausage/pedals_shoes.htm


Sigh...why don't they just put the damned things on in the first place!

The way things are heading, I should just buy the framekit instead of
the bike!

Thanks, BTW, for the reference. I'll probably just get Power Grips for
now. How are they, really? Better than nothing, or just short of
best-of-class?

> If the SMGTe does not cause them to look, try begging.


Being noticed isn't the problem, it's everything else -- and that's all
before my own issues, like getting bored, etc.!

> The women I find attractive are less than impressed with folks who care
> so little about themselves they ride without one.


Oh, no -- an ideologue! She'd probably make me wear a condom, too. =D

> While on the subject of transport as a means of attracting females,
> well, recently ran into a guy I knew back in the dark ages. Over lunch,
> he commented that he still couldn't get the time of day with women, even
> though he now owned a high end Corvette. As a general observation, the
> difference was that before he was a pencil necked geek. Now, he is a
> pencil necked geek with a Corvette.


While not a pencil-necked geek with a Corvette, I am a geek trapped
inside an athlete's body, so I know all about this problem: ultimately,
you've got to have "game." This is why I was wondering if there are
(m)any babes on 'bents -- figured that would be a short-cut of sorts
through the "game"...I'm too much of a snob and think "gaming" is
beneath me...the problem is that I only game or use game with girls I
don't "care" about, really...the ones I really want I want to be
"honest" with....

So it's not about using transport as a means of attracting females, but
what females are there that share this vision of this particular kind
of transport -- surely there will be other common values between us, if
we both admire so peculiar a thing as a 'bent! The looks you can tell
in no time -- yes, I can have sex with that for the rest of my life
happily, yes -- but what about values? Is she some whiny princess --
oh, too cold; oh, too tiring; oh, too danerous; oh, too geeky -- or is
she some real lady -- self-reliant, physical and sensual, strong, fast,
determined and patient, lasting and resourceful? I believe one can
really tell a lot about a person's character and outlook by how they
ride (and with most other physical activities).

> --
> Hull 697
 
Hull 697 wrote:
>
>
> If I had not had the oppurtunity to test ride Rotors they would have
> been after trying BeBops. Lots of testimonials about BeBops and knees
> out there on the net. Rotors are pricey and the performance benefit is
> still up for considerable debate, as this thread shows. With stock
> cranks, after 5 miles my left knee felt the dead spot, the right did
> not. Performance was not my issue. As far as knee/ankle issues, here is
> an interesting read:
> http://www.angletechcycles.com/notsausage/pedals_shoes.htm


Sigh...why don't they just put the damned things on in the first place!

The way things are heading, I should just buy the framekit instead of
the bike!

Thanks, BTW, for the reference. I'll probably just get Power Grips for
now. How are they, really? Better than nothing, or just short of
best-of-class?

> If the SMGTe does not cause them to look, try begging.


Being noticed isn't the problem, it's everything else -- and that's all
before my own issues, like getting bored, etc.!

> The women I find attractive are less than impressed with folks who care
> so little about themselves they ride without one.


Oh, no -- an ideologue! She'd probably make me wear a condom, too. =D

> While on the subject of transport as a means of attracting females,
> well, recently ran into a guy I knew back in the dark ages. Over lunch,
> he commented that he still couldn't get the time of day with women, even
> though he now owned a high end Corvette. As a general observation, the
> difference was that before he was a pencil necked geek. Now, he is a
> pencil necked geek with a Corvette.


While not a pencil-necked geek with a Corvette, I am a geek trapped
inside an athlete's body, so I know all about this problem: ultimately,
you've got to have "game." This is why I was wondering if there are
(m)any babes on 'bents -- figured that would be a short-cut of sorts
through the "game"...I'm too much of a snob and think "gaming" is
beneath me...the problem is that I only game or use game with girls I
don't "care" about, really...the ones I really want I want to be
"honest" with....

So it's not about using transport as a means of attracting females, but
what females are there that share this vision of this particular kind
of transport -- surely there will be other common values between us, if
we both admire so peculiar a thing as a 'bent! The looks you can tell
in no time -- yes, I can have sex with that for the rest of my life
happily, yes -- but what about values? Is she some whiny princess --
oh, too cold; oh, too tiring; oh, too danerous; oh, too geeky -- or is
she some real lady -- self-reliant, physical and sensual, strong, fast,
determined and patient, lasting and resourceful? I believe one can
really tell a lot about a person's character and outlook by how they
ride (and with most other physical activities).

> --
> Hull 697
 
If you redesigned the frame and seat to alleviate hand, wrist, arm and neck
pain and improve forward vision I bet you'd end up with something looking
like a <gasp> recumbent.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
>> ...
>> There are always inventors who believe that something significant was
>> overlooked and that their invention will revolutionize bicycling.
>> None of them have done so....

>
> Pedal drive to the wheels?
>
> Hand operated brakes?
>
> Chain drive instead of direct drive?
>
> Multiple gear ratios?
>
> None of these are recent inventions, but things have progressed
> significantly since Karl Drais von Sauerbronn's "Laufmaschine".
>
> --
> Tom Sherman
>
>





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On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:16:30 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>NYC XYZ wrote:
>
>> Ah, well I didn't know about the cost factor being "very
>> significant"...but Velovision, in that issue with the Hase Ti-Pino
>> reader review, tested Rotor cranks and found them to be a very modest
>> ~5% increase in speed, and noticeably more comfortable, though nothing
>> life-changing or revolutionary.

>
>And other people have tested them and found them not to really do
>anything much. The jury is still very much out. I'm not saying
>they don't/can't help, just that the writing isn't on the wall in
>unremovable neon paint with letters 5 miles high like it is with
>clipless pedals, and the Rotors do cost a lot I'd sooner spend on
>something else.


And that sign has fine print at the base (merely 100 foot letters) to
the effect of "Your Mileage May Vary, Results Are Not Guaranteed For
All Users." (Rumor has it that there is another note farther over, to
the effect of "We Apologise For The Inconvenience.")

>When professional racers, who make more money by going faster, and
>record attempt machines start to use Rotors in significant numbers
>then I'll /really/ take notice. At the moment they don't, and they
>do use cycling shoes and clipless pedals.


And although the Rotor Cranks website makes much of the length of the
list of riders whom they cite as loyal users, they ignore the rather
much larger list that would have to be posted if the non-users were
accounted for. The mere fact that Rotor admits that the majority of
the effect achieved by the Rotor Cranks can be obtained by the use of
an elliptical sprocket (which they will, in fact, sell to you
themselves) is telling, particularly in the face of its failure to win
widespread adoption in performance circles.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
"oldslowbenter" wrote:
> If you redesigned the frame and seat to alleviate hand, wrist, arm and neck
> pain and improve forward vision I bet you'd end up with something looking
> like a <gasp> recumbent.


One might even end up riding something freakish like a lowracer with an
ISO 305-mm/406-mm wheelset. ;)

--
Tom Sherman
 
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "oldslowbenter" wrote:
>> If you redesigned the frame and seat to alleviate hand, wrist, arm and
>> neck
>> pain and improve forward vision I bet you'd end up with something looking
>> like a <gasp> recumbent.

>
> One might even end up riding something freakish like a lowracer with an
> ISO 305-mm/406-mm wheelset. ;)


One might surmise that that possibility exists. I hope it doesn't clash with
my red bike.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman
>




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"Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Bob" <[email protected]> writes:
>> Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't worry, once you are out on your 'bent, all the girls will throw
>>> themselves at you.

>>
>> If you're relying on your choice of transportation to help you get
>> girls you'll have a lot more luck riding *in* a Benz than *on* a 'bent.
>> Just FYI. ;-)

>
> A lot of that depends on your local cycling culture. I get plenty
> of opportunities for socializing with women riders, especially on
> the more cyclist-frequented streets here. And the women are often
> the conversation initiators.
>
> It helps that they can usually catch up to me.
>
> Women cyclists are lovely; the world is graced by their presence.


Women are at their very best in church with veils over their heads, lighting
candles at the altar and praying for the souls of slobs like you and me. At
that point they become as angels and I am destroyed.

However, the question needs to be asked is why are men such monsters. We are
not only sinful, but we are also as ugly as sin. What the hell women ever
see in men is one of the supreme mysteries of the universe. Hells Bells, if
I were a woman I would devote my life to putting men in their place - which
is in Hell of course.

I propose that men are devils and women are angels. Once you have got this
distinction straight in your freaking head, you are well on the way to some
sanity. Men do have a few virtues which women do not have, but men have so
many vices that women don't have that there is just no reconciling it. Any
man who finds a women who will accept him ought to get down on his hands and
knees and thank God. We know how worthless we are and we should be thankful
that women don't know this about us.

Well, I could go on and on about men and how we relate to women. Only
celibates like myself and Catholic priests know anything at all about women.
The rest of you sinful slobs should come to church ever now and then and get
the word. I and the Catholic priests would tell you all you will ever have
to know about women.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
 
bob wrote:

> Darrell Criswell wrote:
>
>> http://www.bentrideronline.com/2004Feb/rotor_cranks.htm
>>
>> check out the above article

>
> Or, this Rotor racing website: http://www.rotorcranksracingteam.com/
>
> [email protected]
> Volae Team/Rotors


I never went with clips as I never found riding shoes that came anywhere
near close to fitting my feet.

Who makes riding shoes that are wide in the toes and narrow in the heels?

In running shoes Sacouney Wides fit me great.

I use a stiff orthodic when I ride.

Bob
 

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