Rotor Cranks? What Else Is There?

[NYC XYZ]

Darrell Criswell wrote:
> http://www.bentrideronline.com/2004Feb/rotor_cranks.htm
>
> check out the above article


Thanks for the link, man! But I must say: I've read some
bentrideronline.com reviews and they have very little in the way of
anything negative to say about anything! Or so it seems that way. I'm
especially skeptical of a review which ends "stay tuned for a more
scientific evaluation in a couple of months. More info at
www.rotorusa.com." Now doesn't that just sound incestuous?

At the same time, BROL is a resource I'd recommend to anyone. But I
have found a review on epinon.com -- or some such site -- which was
diametrically opposite what BROL described of the HP Velotechnik Spirit
CLWB's front suspension. BROL said it never bottomed out, whereas the
anonymous review had it as being inadequate (though both reviews
recommended the Spirit as a good 'bent).

Anyway, I'm keeping an eye out on Rotor cranks, as well as Rohloff
hubs. When HP Velo comes out with a nice titanium 'bent, that's when
I'll really splurge!

 

[Edward Dolan]

"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Darrell Criswell wrote:
>> http://www.bentrideronline.com/2004Feb/rotor_cranks.htm
>>
>> check out the above article
>
>
> Thanks for the link, man! But I must say: I've read some
> bentrideronline.com reviews and they have very little in the way of
> anything negative to say about anything! Or so it seems that way. I'm
> especially skeptical of a review which ends "stay tuned for a more
> scientific evaluation in a couple of months. More info at
> www.rotorusa.com." Now doesn't that just sound incestuous?
>
> At the same time, BROL is a resource I'd recommend to anyone. But I
> have found a review on epinon.com -- or some such site -- which was
> diametrically opposite what BROL described of the HP Velotechnik Spirit
> CLWB's front suspension. BROL said it never bottomed out, whereas the
> anonymous review had it as being inadequate (though both reviews
> recommended the Spirit as a good 'bent).
>
> Anyway, I'm keeping an eye out on Rotor cranks, as well as Rohloff
> hubs. When HP Velo comes out with a nice titanium 'bent, that's when
> I'll really splurge!

Subscribe to RCN and be done with it. BROL is not bad, but it does not
really evaluate anything or make meaningful comparisons. For that you have
to go to RCN.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[NYC XYZ]

Just did the other day, after clearing PayPal security. But just about
everything is written by Bill Bryant!

So far, I've also subscribed to Recumbent and Tandem Rider, Adventure
Cyclist, and Velovision.


What an exciting year!



Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
> Subscribe to RCN and be done with it. BROL is not bad, but it does not
> really evaluate anything or make meaningful comparisons. For that you have
> to go to RCN.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just did the other day, after clearing PayPal security. But just about
> everything is written by Bill Bryant!

Bob Bryant is the editor and the chief writer. He will have others
contribute articles, but his own articles are always the best. Mr. Bryant
and I started in recumbents at about the same time many years ago. I almost
always agree with him when he is telling us the pros and cons of the various
reucmbents. He also has some sense of price which he takes into account in
his evaluations. You can learn everything you will ever have to know about
recumbents by reading RCN.

I have every issue of RCN going back to the beginning. Believe me, the world
of recumbency has definitely evolved quite a bit since those early days.

> So far, I've also subscribed to Recumbent and Tandem Rider, Adventure
> Cyclist, and Velovision.

It doesn't hurt to read any of the above. Descriptive information can be
very good to have also.

> What an exciting year!

Sigh! Oh, to be young again!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>> Subscribe to RCN and be done with it. BROL is not bad, but it does not
>> really evaluate anything or make meaningful comparisons. For that you
>> have
>> to go to RCN.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Beach Runner wrote:

> Who makes riding shoes that are wide in the toes and narrow in the heels?
>
> In running shoes Sacouney Wides fit me great.

I like Saucony runners too... I used to have a pair of Specialized
Rockhopper shoes, recently retired, and I now have some Diadora ones. I
find Shimano shoes /much/ too narrow. I've tried on some Cannondale
ones which fit me okay too.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

NYC XYZ wrote:

> At the same time, BROL is a resource I'd recommend to anyone. But I
> have found a review on epinon.com -- or some such site -- which was
> diametrically opposite what BROL described of the HP Velotechnik Spirit
> CLWB's front suspension. BROL said it never bottomed out, whereas the
> anonymous review had it as being inadequate (though both reviews
> recommended the Spirit as a good 'bent).

That'll depend how you use it and also what weight you are. It took me
3 years before I bottomed out the front sus on my Streetmachine, so had
I reviewed it in those 3 years I could honestly have said I'd never
bottomed it out (it was a rather deep pothole, obscured by a puddle,
which I hit at upwards of 30 mph. A friend hit it too on a DF, and her
wrists were in pain, I just thought, "gosh, that's what it sounds like
when you bottom out the suspension on a Streetmachine").

Problem with reviews is they're subject to very small sample bases with
highly varying personal circumstances and preferences of the folk doing
the reviewing, so they're actually much less use than a lot of people
assume, especially where the reviewer hasn't ridden much else. Not
useless, just less use than a lot of people assume.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[NYC XYZ]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
> Bob Bryant is the editor and the chief writer. He will have others
> contribute articles, but his own articles are always the best. Mr. Bryant
> and I started in recumbents at about the same time many years ago. I almost
> always agree with him when he is telling us the pros and cons of the various
> reucmbents. He also has some sense of price which he takes into account in
> his evaluations. You can learn everything you will ever have to know about
> recumbents by reading RCN.

In 092, he didn't have much to say about hydraulic brakes, given his
admitted unfamiliarity with them. That was quite a bummer.

> I have every issue of RCN going back to the beginning. Believe me, the world
> of recumbency has definitely evolved quite a bit since those early days.

Ah, what does Issue 075 have to say about the HP Velotechnik Spirit?
In the most recent one, 092, the summary Bob Bryant gave was that it's
possibly the best CLWB around!

> It doesn't hurt to read any of the above. Descriptive information can be
> very good to have also.

"The Scene" is just all very interesting. It's like finally finding
someone who speaks my language! All the other bike mags I see are
about racing, etc. Too commercialized. I like the church-newsletter
ethos of these periodicals, as well as what seems to be their
underlying humanistic philosophy. Mainstream bike mags convey too much
"attitude" to me.

I'll also subscribe to the HPV newsletter soon. This is a very
interesting world!

> Sigh! Oh, to be young again!

Not at all -- age is merely mind over matter; if you don't mind, it
doesn't matter (Mark Twain). Bush pere parachuted for his 80th
birthday.

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[NYC XYZ]

How deep was the pothole, do you think?

An honest and conscientious review will test out stuff like potholes,
etc. It's unfortunate that many of these "reader reviews" are not
"professional" in that sense, and the 'bent niche relies mainly on
reader opinion. But situations like "real" potholes, etc., are a bit
unfair to "pin" onto a 'bent and its suspension system too much...after
all, nothing will work against everything.


Peter Clinch wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> > At the same time, BROL is a resource I'd recommend to anyone. But I
> > have found a review on epinon.com -- or some such site -- which was
> > diametrically opposite what BROL described of the HP Velotechnik Spirit
> > CLWB's front suspension. BROL said it never bottomed out, whereas the
> > anonymous review had it as being inadequate (though both reviews
> > recommended the Spirit as a good 'bent).
>
> That'll depend how you use it and also what weight you are. It took me
> 3 years before I bottomed out the front sus on my Streetmachine, so had
> I reviewed it in those 3 years I could honestly have said I'd never
> bottomed it out (it was a rather deep pothole, obscured by a puddle,
> which I hit at upwards of 30 mph. A friend hit it too on a DF, and her
> wrists were in pain, I just thought, "gosh, that's what it sounds like
> when you bottom out the suspension on a Streetmachine").
>
> Problem with reviews is they're subject to very small sample bases with
> highly varying personal circumstances and preferences of the folk doing
> the reviewing, so they're actually much less use than a lot of people
> assume, especially where the reviewer hasn't ridden much else. Not
> useless, just less use than a lot of people assume.
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Beach Runner wrote:
> ...
> Who makes riding shoes that are wide in the toes and narrow in the heels?

"Mega" versions of SiDi Dominator (ATB) and Genius (road) shoes have
wide toe boxes relative to their heel width. See
<http://www.sidiusa.com/> or <http://www.sidisport.com/eng/index.asp>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Darrell Criswell wrote:
> > http://www.bentrideronline.com/2004Feb/rotor_cranks.htm
> >
> > check out the above article
>
>
> Thanks for the link, man! But I must say: I've read some
> bentrideronline.com reviews and they have very little in the way of
> anything negative to say about anything! Or so it seems that way. I'm
> especially skeptical of a review which ends "stay tuned for a more
> scientific evaluation in a couple of months. More info at
> www.rotorusa.com." Now doesn't that just sound incestuous?
>
> At the same time, BROL is a resource I'd recommend to anyone. But I
> have found a review on epinon.com -- or some such site -- which was
> diametrically opposite what BROL described of the HP Velotechnik Spirit
> CLWB's front suspension. BROL said it never bottomed out, whereas the
> anonymous review had it as being inadequate (though both reviews
> recommended the Spirit as a good 'bent)....

Ignoring the other issues, was the epinion.com reviewer significantly
heavier than the BROL reviewer?

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[Edward Dolan]

"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[...]
> "The Scene" is just all very interesting. It's like finally finding
> someone who speaks my language! All the other bike mags I see are
> about racing, etc. Too commercialized. I like the church-newsletter
> ethos of these periodicals, as well as what seems to be their
> underlying humanistic philosophy. Mainstream bike mags convey too much
> "attitude" to me.

Yes, I liked the underground attitude when I was young too. There are still
some things I like about it, but you have to approach it with infinite
caution. That world is just chock full of nuts and screwballs, but every now
and then they do say something which reeks of the truth.

> I'll also subscribe to the HPV newsletter soon. This is a very
> interesting world!
>
>> Sigh! Oh, to be young again!
>
> Not at all -- age is merely mind over matter; if you don't mind, it
> doesn't matter (Mark Twain). Bush pere parachuted for his 80th
> birthday.

Nope, age will have its way with everyone. When you are 70, you are not 20.
The one great advantage of years is that I have been your age but you have
not yet been my age. You may or may not get to my age. Nothing is for
certain in this life. But I wish you the best in any event. Everyone should
know what it is like to get old. Otherwise, you do not have a complete
picture of life.

Mark Twain was a very cranky sour man in the end. Nothing at all like when
he was young and leading the sporting life on the Mississippi. Old men who
think they are still young are nothing but fools. Bush pere now breathes
through his mouth. He should most definitely not be jumping our of
airplanes.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Peter Clinch]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> How deep was the pothole, do you think?
>
> An honest and conscientious review will test out stuff like potholes,
> etc.

You don't do overtly dangerous or damaging things in a review, and
hitting big holes at high speed is both, both for your own sake and also
trying to push loan equipment past breaking point is impolite, however
desirable the results may be for the reading public.

How deep? don't know, there was still puddle obscuring the depths after
we'd both been through and removed a fair bit of water, but deep enough
that you'd want to avoid it. My co-rider was in quite serious discomfort.

> It's unfortunate that many of these "reader reviews" are not
> "professional" in that sense, and the 'bent niche relies mainly on
> reader opinion.

I'd like it to rely far more on actual seat time so personal rather than
reader opinion. As the last V-V buyer's guide pointed out, it's very
easy to over-research and seat time is what really counts. You already
seem to have set your heart on a Spirit without having ridden one: /I/
think it's a lovely bike, but don't assume it'll work for you until it
has proven so with direct personal experience. Some people just aren't
happy on it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[NYC XYZ]

Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> You don't do overtly dangerous or damaging things in a review, and
> hitting big holes at high speed is both, both for your own sake and also
> trying to push loan equipment past breaking point is impolite, however
> desirable the results may be for the reading public.

Well, no torture tests, but surely something within the realm of
everyday riding is understandable.

> How deep? don't know, there was still puddle obscuring the depths after
> we'd both been through and removed a fair bit of water, but deep enough
> that you'd want to avoid it. My co-rider was in quite serious discomfort.

Just curious if it was a whole foot or what.

> I'd like it to rely far more on actual seat time so personal rather than
> reader opinion. As the last V-V buyer's guide pointed out, it's very
> easy to over-research and seat time is what really counts. You already
> seem to have set your heart on a Spirit without having ridden one: /I/
> think it's a lovely bike, but don't assume it'll work for you until it
> has proven so with direct personal experience. Some people just aren't
> happy on it.

Love at first sight, man.

I have a pretty good idea of what I want. I wanted a friendly second
bike for guests, but one which I myself would not mind riding, either.
So something more upright than recumbent, but still rather reclined --
user-friendly towards newbies and all that.

Looking around, I see how highly rated the Spirit is. From first-hand
experience, I also have confidence in the HP Velo brand (interestingly,
they discontinued the Wavey). All that remains is an actual test ride
to find something which will disappoint me. The only thing I can
imagine at this point is that it is really slow, given the very small
wheels.

> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[NYC XYZ]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>
> Ignoring the other issues, was the epinion.com reviewer significantly
> heavier than the BROL reviewer?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain


Sorry, not epinion after all, but
<http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/2003-bikes/2003-recumbent-bike/hp-velotechnik/PRD_139360_4345crx.aspx#reviews>.

Not sure what you're driving at, though.

 

[Edward Dolan]

"NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ignoring the other issues, was the epinion.com reviewer significantly
>> heavier than the BROL reviewer?
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
>
>
> Sorry, not epinion after all, but
> <http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/2003-bikes/2003-recumbent-bike/hp-velotechnik/PRD_139360_4345crx.aspx#reviews>.
>
> Not sure what you're driving at, though.

Before I showed up here on ARBR Mr. Sherman was a man of many words. I am
afraid I have reduced him to a man of few words. However, whether many or
few, he was always cryptic. I never knew for sure what the hell he was
talking about half the time. He was saddled with a scientific and
engineering education and as we all know those types are just barely
literate. But he is letter perfect which is amazing as most of those types
are not that either.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

 

[Peter Clinch]

NYC XYZ wrote:

> Well, no torture tests, but surely something within the realm of
> everyday riding is understandable.

I've hit potholes that big every 3-4 years, I'd guess. That isn't
"everyday riding", though it can happen on any day.

> Love at first sight, man.
>
> I have a pretty good idea of what I want. I wanted a friendly second
> bike for guests, but one which I myself would not mind riding, either.
> So something more upright than recumbent, but still rather reclined --
> user-friendly towards newbies and all that.

But if the seat doesn't really work for you then it's so much scrap
metal. You can only find that out by sitting on it. The Challenge
Fujin or Taifun is my idea of My Perfect Recumbent/on paper/, but my one
experience to date of Challenges seats (which plenty of folk seem to be
happy with) suggests that buying one without trying it first would be a
*very* bad idea.

> Looking around, I see how highly rated the Spirit is. From first-hand
> experience, I also have confidence in the HP Velo brand (interestingly,
> they discontinued the Wavey).

The Wavey was an excellent value machine and on paper it worked well,
and on review it worked well. I found the seat comfortable but I
couldn't set it up so my knees didn't keep hitting the bars. Everyone's
physiology is different, so everyone needs to test for themselves or you
won't find this sort of thing. A pal trying HPVels with me a couple of
weeks ago really liked the Spirit, but he couldn't do the grasshopper
because his bandy legs hit the (overseat) bars. Not a problem for many
happy owners, a complete non-starter for him.

> All that remains is an actual test ride
> to find something which will disappoint me. The only thing I can
> imagine at this point is that it is really slow, given the very small
> wheels.

Why should small wheels make it slow? It's /relatively/ slow because of
the poor aerodynamics combined with relatively high weight, but wheel
size only really affects performance much if you're negotiating very
rough stuff.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ignoring the other issues, was the epinion.com reviewer significantly
> > heavier than the BROL reviewer?
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
>
>
> Sorry, not epinion after all, but
> <http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/2003-bikes/2003-recumbent-bike/hp-velotechnik/PRD_139360_4345crx.aspx#reviews>.
>
> Not sure what you're driving at, though.

Shocks need to be set for rider weight, or they will provide either to
much or too little damping.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> Before I showed up here on ARBR Mr. Sherman was a man of many words. I am
> afraid I have reduced him to a man of few words. However, whether many or
> few, he was always cryptic. I never knew for sure what the hell he was
> talking about half the time. He was saddled with a scientific and
> engineering education and as we all know those types are just barely
> literate. But he is letter perfect which is amazing as most of those types
> are not that either....

What is so hard about writing in a manner that people can understand?
It is deliberately mangling English while retaining meaning like our
friend g. daniels that takes talent.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
President - g. daniels Fan Club

"are there stones on distant mountain decents marking the gored and
deceased? arms and wrists broken ?
or is this unreported?" - g. daniels

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> Before I showed up here on ARBR Mr. Sherman was a man of many words. I
>> am
>> afraid I have reduced him to a man of few words. However, whether many or
>> few, he was always cryptic. I never knew for sure what the hell he was
>> talking about half the time. He was saddled with a scientific and
>> engineering education and as we all know those types are just barely
>> literate. But he is letter perfect which is amazing as most of those
>> types
>> are not that either....
>
> What is so hard about writing in a manner that people can understand?
> It is deliberately mangling English while retaining meaning like our
> friend g. daniels that takes talent.

What you and I do is own of the hardest things in the world to do. We spend
most of our young years in school trying to learn to read and write. Most us
never learn to do it very well. In order to read and write well, you have to
be able to think well. That is what education is all about and society
devotes enormous resources to accomplish this seemingly simple goal.

You really have to go to a third world nation to realize what the lack of an
education means. However, I fear we Americans are failing badly these days
also. I think our parents and our grandparents, provided they got any
education at all, got a better education that anyone gets today.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota