Rumour: Kloden tested positive so he just pulled out

[thoughtforfood]

It will end when there is a credible clean up of the sport. Not the "cleaning" that is happening at the present moment under the dysfunctional leadership of the UCI. But seriously, if you are sick of the talk here, I second TFF's suggestion...

TDL, people who want to deny the existence of doping will never understand what you write. I agree completely. The funny thing is that they think they really love cycling, and we actually hate it. They will never understand that simply because we love something does not mean we will overlook glaring flaws. I will always love my children, regardless. However, should they break the law, I hope that they will also pay the price for their actions.

 

[Klodifan]

Eldron makes a valid point and the best rebuttal from many is to go to another forum? What an intelligent response! If you want this forum to continue in its monolithic mindset than you are all no better than the DPF you mock.

You know what is tiresome? The predictable responses that saturate these threads, as of late.

People call for the sport to clean up its act. Spectators also need to clean up the perpetual doping accusations as well.

And to specifically get back to the Kloden rumor, anyone who was following the rider knows he has not been riding well because of illness. So he pulls out during a stage after a taxing ride the previous day. That is plausible. Or are we to adopt the mindset of this forum and say, "HA! DOPER!", because clearly Astana and Andreas forsaw a failed doping control late in race, so he feigned sickness the past two weeks as defense. Please, give me a break!

 

[NJK]

Eldron makes a valid point and the best rebuttal from many is to go to another forum? What an intelligent response! If you want this forum to continue in its monolithic mindset than you are all no better than the DPF you mock.

You know what is tiresome? The predictable responses that saturate these threads, as of late.

People call for the sport to clean up its act. Spectators also need to clean up the perpetual doping accusations as well.

And to specifically get back to the Kloden rumor, anyone who was following the rider knows he has not been riding well because of illness. So he pulls out during a stage after a taxing ride the previous day. That is plausible. Or are we to adopt the mindset of this forum and say, "HA! DOPER!", because clearly Astana and Andreas forsaw a failed doping control late in race, so he feigned sickness the past two weeks as defense. Please, give me a break!

Which Kloden rumour are we talking about, to me there have been quite a few as he is a rider to my knowledge that hasn't been sanctioned over PED use in the past, rather luckily in my view.

 

[Klodifan]

Which Kloden rumour are we talking about, to me there have been quite a few as he is a rider to my knowledge that hasn't been sanctioned over PED use in the past, rather luckily in my view.

We are talking about the rumor that he pulled out of yesterdays stage b/c UCI tipped him off that he had intereting blood values, or flat out failed doping control.

The other, more rational, reason he abandoned was because of ongoing illness.

 

[NJK]

We are talking about the rumor that he pulled out of yesterdays stage b/c UCI tipped him off that he had intereting blood values, or flat out failed doping control.

The other, more rational, reason he abandoned was because of ongoing illness.

Obviously you can get ill during 3 wk race. He didn't that ill to me on stage 19 towing Contador at a fast pace and dropping Simoni in the process. All of the teams pull suspicious riders out of a race and then blame illness. It seems to be the way of doing things. Astaloa?

I think they have been trying to get Kloden purely and simply because he is one of the few remaining group of riders who lasted with Armstrong in his heyday. They can't get Armstrong, struggling with Ullrich but have sanctioned the rest, it is like the wild west.

 

[micron]

The rumour is all too plausible - first we have Astana riders toppling like flies because of a 'stomach bug' and then we have news of T-Mobile suppressing 57 positive tests - Pretty Damned Messy all these illnesses...

I feel sorry for Kloden - he's clearly not one of the inner circle and Bruyneel will sacrifice him in a second to protect precious Dirty Bertie.

 

[thoughtforfood]

Eldron makes a valid point

I disagree completely with your initial statement, so the rest makes no sense to me.

 

[TheDarkLord]

Eldron makes a valid point and the best rebuttal from many is to go to another forum? What an intelligent response! If you want this forum to continue in its monolithic mindset than you are all no better than the DPF you mock.

You know what is tiresome? The predictable responses that saturate these threads, as of late.

Well, you tell me after reading this thread in full on whether there has been a monolithic response that he definitely doped or not. Your love for your fan is definitely clouding your judgement here.

And to specifically get back to the Kloden rumor, anyone who was following the rider knows he has not been riding well because of illness. So he pulls out during a stage after a taxing ride the previous day. That is plausible. Or are we to adopt the mindset of this forum and say, "HA! DOPER!", because clearly Astana and Andreas forsaw a failed doping control late in race, so he feigned sickness the past two weeks as defense. Please, give me a break!

Except that he seemed to be perfectly fine in the previous stage. As long as you keep swallowing the Kool aid dished out by the riders, everything will appear to be rational.

Coming back to the point of this thread, the OP posted that there is a rumour that he failed a test. Others posted that the rumour has not been verified in some reputable websites. Knowing the Hog, there is speculation about if the rumor is indeed true, why he would have failed a test. What else do you expect?

 

[RdBiker]

Ok so when does the probation end? When do we stop seeing a pimple on a cyclist's face and call him a doper? When do we see anybody win anything without calling them a doper?

Is there ever going to be an end or do we just carry on yelling "doper"? It's a bit like crying wolf forever...

Yes, what is this "cleaning of the peloton" we are waiting for? Many say that cycling needs "a proper clean up" but I have yet to read what that really is. Banning all the current riders above the age of 15 and waiting for the younger ones to grow? Will they be clean? Or getting rid of all the staff, team doctors and personnel? Will the new ones be any cleaner?

Believe me, it's much simpler to not worry about who's clean and who's not and just enjoy watching bike races. And then go for a ride yourself and pretend you're Contador on an Alpine stage when actually you'regoing up a 6% hill at 15km/h

 

[hawkeye87]

Ok so when does the probation end? When do we stop seeing a pimple on a cyclist's face and call him a doper? When do we see anybody win anything without calling them a doper?

Is there ever going to be an end or do we just carry on yelling "doper"? It's a bit like crying wolf forever...

I don't think it will end until you see the likes of Johan Bruyneel's teams actually riding like everyone else instead of standing out.

We all know that 1 week preparation for the Giro was ********. That is despite the fact that every cycling media outlet I've heard or read repeats this mantra like witless zombies. That includes a U.K. outfit, which I hoped would be more realistic than the easy-to-satisy U.S. sports media.

His team comes into the Giro with, what, a realistic one month prep and not only does well, they win it with a rider, who's good but NOT God, who's been "vacationing".

Astana was rewarded by the RCS for lighting up the pelaton. They repaid RCS by winning their Grand Tour. I heard the entire 3 weeks about how RCS wanted a great and exciting race for the spectators. I do not recall hearing, during the entire Giro, on the fact that they wanted a clean race. That is not their emphasis.

It makes me deeply disappointed to realize that cycling only preaches about wanting to be clean. The truth is, they want great performances and for the riders to not get caught or, God forbid, die from their meddling with their bodies like that.

I know it isn't just cycling. Here in the U.S. baseball fans love to cheer home runs and then, become outraged, years later when that overly muscled hero turned out to be a 'Roid-Boy. But they still want to see those home runs.

I find it difficult to read a lot of the distrust in just about all of the performances in riders all during the season. I want to believe that some of them are making an effort to clean up.

But the fact is, while some may be trying, they will lose in the end. The winners are the dopers as they take home the trophies, applause and money for their efforts.

 

[Klodifan]

Well, you tell me after reading this thread in full on whether there has been a monolithic response that he definitely doped or not. Your love for your fan is definitely clouding your judgement here.

Except that he seemed to be perfectly fine in the previous stage. As long as you keep swallowing the Kool aid dished out by the riders, everything will appear to be rational.

Coming back to the point of this thread, the OP posted that there is a rumour that he failed a test. Others posted that the rumour has not been verified in some reputable websites. Knowing the Hog, there is speculation about if the rumor is indeed true, why he would have failed a test. What else do you expect?

The monolithic mindset I'm referring to is the idea that anyone who likes Astana must be a Disco, DPF fanboy/girl. You and your cronies are so predictable. The culture of this forum has changed. It is seen in this thread where the best rebuttal is that I'm "swallowing the Kool aid" or to tell others to go to DPF. It is clearly seen in threads that address other websites and forums. It does not interest me in the least to go and stalk other forums and then post about them here. That action is not intelligent debate, nor is it stimulating. Quite frankly, it is rather pathetic.

And anyone who has been here for awhile knows that I am pretty objective regarding all riders. You, dark one, reveal your own simpleton way of thinking. You see my handle and immediately think my judgement is clouded. I have critisized Kloden on numerous occasions and don't follow him blindly. What I do exhibit is rational, fair judgement of situtations and resist jumping on the doping bandwagon.

Like I said, what is more plausible? Complaining that you're sick for weeks b/c you are actully sick? or complaining that you're sick because you anticipate a failed doping control and oh yeah, ride poorly just to back sickness up and screw any possile chance of winning grand tour.

 

[TheDarkLord]

Yes, what is this "cleaning of the peloton" we are waiting for? Many say that cycling needs "a proper clean up" but I have yet to read what that really is. Banning all the current riders above the age of 15 and waiting for the younger ones to grow? Will they be clean? Or getting rid of all the staff, team doctors and personnel? Will the new ones be any cleaner?

We have discussed this before. How about a fundamental change in attitude and holding the team director/staff responsible to some degree when a rider pops hot? Or having a more credible agency oversee cycling? Or try to go after the dope doctors? There will still be people who dope, and the dopers will always be one steap ahead of the testers, but at least try to change doping from a team affair into an individual affair. Currently, the poor souls who are stupid enough to get caught or the poor sacrificial lambs are hung dry with the team director expressing "outrage" and going scot-free. One doesn't have to sacrifice all the current riders. Just make it hard enough to dope with more severe sanctions for even the first doping infraction to make it not worth it to dope...

 

[kennf]

Eldron makes a valid point and the best rebuttal from many is to go to another forum? What an intelligent response! If you want this forum to continue in its monolithic mindset than you are all no better than the DPF you mock.

You know what is tiresome? The predictable responses that saturate these threads, as of late.

People call for the sport to clean up its act. Spectators also need to clean up the perpetual doping accusations as well.

And to specifically get back to the Kloden rumor, anyone who was following the rider knows he has not been riding well because of illness. So he pulls out during a stage after a taxing ride the previous day. That is plausible. Or are we to adopt the mindset of this forum and say, "HA! DOPER!", because clearly Astana and Andreas forsaw a failed doping control late in race, so he feigned sickness the past two weeks as defense. Please, give me a break!

The problem is you have another rider (Astarloa) suddenly pull out at the beginning of stage two because of reported stomach problems, then two weeks later we learn because it was of suspicous blood values, and he's promptly fired by Milram (the same team who was helping spread the "stomach problem" story just two weeks before). It's that kind of **** that creates the environment for this rumor about Kloden to be plausible, although not yet confirmed. Sometimes these rumors are flat-out wrong (like the one last year about Soler's team being raided), sometimes they're right. But the title of the thread clearly states that it is, right now, just a rumor.

 

[hawkeye87]

We have discussed this before. How about a fundamental change in attitude and holding the team director/staff responsible to some degree when a rider pops hot? Or having a more credible agency oversee cycling? Or try to go after the dope doctors? There will still be people who dope, and the dopers will always be one steap ahead of the testers, but at least try to change doping from a team affair into an individual affair. Currently, the poor souls who are stupid enough to get caught or the poor sacrificial lambs are hung dry with the team director expressing "outrage" and going scot-free. One doesn't have to sacrifice all the current riders. Just make it hard enough to dope with more severe sanctions for even the first doping infraction to make it not worth it to dope...

+1

But I, now, seriously doubt that cycling has the heart to do this. If the ASO remains steadfast and sticks to their guns with their TdF invites, that is one organization that may be serious about it but is it enough?

 

[thoughtforfood]

The monolithic mindset I'm referring to is the idea that anyone who likes Astana must be a Disco, DPF fanboy/girl. You and your cronies are so predictable. The culture of this forum has changed. It is seen in this thread where the best rebuttal is that I'm "swallowing the Kool aid" or to tell others to go to DPF. It is clearly seen in threads that address other websites and forums. It does not interest me in the least to go and stalk other forums and then post about them here. That action is not intelligent debate, nor is it stimulating. Quite frankly, it is rather pathetic.

And anyone who has been here for awhile knows that I am pretty objective regarding all riders. You, dark one, reveal your own simpleton way of thinking. You see my handle and immediately think my judgement is clouded. I have critisized Kloden on numerous occasions and don't follow him blindly. What I do exhibit is rational, fair judgement of situtations and resist jumping on the doping bandwagon.

Like I said, what is more plausible? Complaining that you're sick for weeks b/c you are actully sick? or complaining that you're sick because you anticipate a failed doping control and oh yeah, ride poorly just to back sickness up and screw any possile chance of winning grand tour.

Well as I wrote yesterday, while plausable, I do not think in this case it is true.

As to who I am, well, you think what you want. It appears you are so far above me that I cannot form an argument that will sway you.

As to anyone is a doping apologist, I will continue to confront that in any manner I choose. Fortunately, on this forum, we are free to express ourselves freely. I post on other forums, and I detest some of the rules specifically on DP. We all have our reasons for doing what we do. We all appear capable of engaging in ad hominem attacks (you included), but I guess if you feel that yours are somehow more "informed" and "right" then what can I say to that? You like Kloden. I actually like Kloden (the only Astana rider I can say that about). I will always express myself in any way I choose. You are obviously free to do the same. I have never made a personal attack on you. Others yes, but not you. However, should you wish that to change, then I invite you to post something else regarding me being a "moron."

 

[TheDarkLord]

The monolithic mindset I'm referring to is the idea that anyone who likes Astana must be a Disco, DPF fanboy/girl. You and your cronies are so predictable. The culture of this forum has changed. It is seen in this thread where the best rebuttal is that I'm "swallowing the Kool aid" or to tell others to go to DPF. It is clearly seen in threads that address other websites and forums. It does not interest me in the least to go and stalk other forums and then post about them here. That action is not intelligent debate, nor is it stimulating. Quite frankly, it is rather pathetic.

FYI, I do not stalk other forums. The people who do post about other forums do so more out of frustration with the policies there. Yes, not everyone, but most. Let me repeat: the point is that if you decree that one shouldn't discuss a rumor, then the suggestion made was to go to forums where such discussions don't occur in the first place.

And anyone who has been here for awhile knows that I am pretty objective regarding all riders. You, dark one, reveal your own simpleton way of thinking. You see my handle and immediately think my judgement is clouded. I have critisized Kloden on numerous occasions and don't follow him blindly. What I do exhibit is rational, fair judgement of situtations and resist jumping on the doping bandwagon.

Don't make it personal. And I have been lurking here for almost a year now. So, don't think that I don't know about you.

Like I said, what is more plausible? Complaining that you're sick for weeks b/c you are actully sick? or complaining that you're sick because you anticipate a failed doping control and oh yeah, ride poorly just to back sickness up and screw any possile chance of winning grand tour.

And to repeat my point, I never concluded that he doped (check my posts if you want). I'm more or less open on the issue; just find it odd that he be in good shape on Stage 19 pulling Contador and then pull out of the race for being sick. I just pointed out that this thread was a speculation on a rumor with not all posters assuming that he doped unlike the accusations of you and Eldron.

 

[wolfix]

I think pulling Kloden was another one of the Johan Bruyneel's mater decisions.I would be curious as to why Johan had the foresight to see that the Spanaird had the legs to win the Giro.

What is Klodens status concerning the TDF and the Vuelta?

 

[Jeff Vader]

I don't think it will end until you see the likes of Johan Bruyneel's teams actually riding like everyone else instead of standing out.

We all know that 1 week preparation for the Giro was ********. That is despite the fact that every cycling media outlet I've heard or read repeats this mantra like witless zombies. That includes a U.K. outfit, which I hoped would be more realistic than the easy-to-satisy U.S. sports media.

His team comes into the Giro with, what, a realistic one month prep and not only does well, they win it with a rider, who's good but NOT God, who's been "vacationing".

Astana was rewarded by the RCS for lighting up the pelaton. They repaid RCS by winning their Grand Tour. I heard the entire 3 weeks about how RCS wanted a great and exciting race for the spectators. I do not recall hearing, during the entire Giro, on the fact that they wanted a clean race. That is not their emphasis.

It makes me deeply disappointed to realize that cycling only preaches about wanting to be clean. The truth is, they want great performances and for the riders to not get caught or, God forbid, die from their meddling with their bodies like that.

I know it isn't just cycling. Here in the U.S. baseball fans love to cheer home runs and then, become outraged, years later when that overly muscled hero turned out to be a 'Roid-Boy. But they still want to see those home runs.

I find it difficult to read a lot of the distrust in just about all of the performances in riders all during the season. I want to believe that some of them are making an effort to clean up.

But the fact is, while some may be trying, they will lose in the end. The winners are the dopers as they take home the trophies, applause and money for their efforts.

Why are you guys so down on Johann and the boys? Just because he and Chris have developed a proven system for winning doesn't mean anybody is doping. And, if Kloden is doping that is because he was from a German team. I knew Johan shouldn't have brought hism to Astana. That is not how Americans do things. We win by hard work and not cheating. Glad to see Al win this race. This surely will make the tour reconsider.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

I hve to agree with Vader on this one. TFF and all of you naysayers are just wrong.

 

[thoughtforfood]

I hve to agree with Vader on this one. TFF and all of you naysayers are just wrong.

******" JEFF VADER RULES!!!