Running as a aid to cycling ?

[EasyDoesIt]

Hi all

Due to the crappy weather lately i've started considering taking up running when i can't get out on the bike, i'm thinking that even just a 30 min run would be better than not getting out on the bike at all. I'm wondering does anyone else here run when they can't get out on the bike and do they find it helps with their cycling ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Scotty_Dog]

The way I see it, running can only help your cycling if:

1) running doesn't take the place of cycling (meaning if you can cycle, then cycle - don't run)
2) running doesn't interfere with cycling recovery

If bad weather is compelling you to run for fitness, why not get an indoor cycling trainer instead?

 

[Skoorb]

Agree with last post. Running as a supplement helps your cardio fitness, which will benefit cycling, but not as much as pure cycling.

 

[EasyDoesIt]

Well i don't intend doing more running than cycling, cycling is what i love. The idea came from being off the bike for over a week because of work and weather and then getting back on the bike and needing a few days of training to get back to where i was, so i thought a bit of running would at least help keep my lungs and heart working if i'm off the bike !

As for an indoor trainer, it's a good idea but i hate the idea of training indoors even just a quick 30 min run between the rain showers would be preferable.

Thanks for the replies though, just have to find a good pair of runners, oh and is it ok to wear your cycling tights for running or is that some sorta no no ?

 

[UCI_Aylwin]

My suggestions is that you dont use those shorts for running.

 

[jmocallaghan]

Well i don't intend doing more running than cycling, cycling is what i love. The idea came from being off the bike for over a week because of work and weather and then getting back on the bike and needing a few days of training to get back to where i was, so i thought a bit of running would at least help keep my lungs and heart working if i'm off the bike !

As for an indoor trainer, it's a good idea but i hate the idea of training indoors even just a quick 30 min run between the rain showers would be preferable.

Thanks for the replies though, just have to find a good pair of runners, oh and is it ok to wear your cycling tights for running or is that some sorta no no ?

Look carefully at the amount of running and/or duration. You will find it can hinder power development. I'm a paratrooper and have to run between 3 and 5 miles 3-5 days a week. I find generally after running early in the morning my power output when I ride in the evening is about 150 watts below when I am trying to sprint. You also have to taper your run days prior to any large block of L4 work or above.

 

[danny shep]

Look carefully at the amount of running and/or duration. You will find it can hinder power development. I'm a paratrooper and have to run between 3 and 5 miles 3-5 days a week. I find generally after running early in the morning my power output when I ride in the evening is about 150 watts below when I am trying to sprint. You also have to taper your run days prior to any large block of L4 work or above.

I've been reading a few books lately which focus on the pro cycling scene and although the rules for pros and amateurs are obviously different there seemed to be lots of negativity from cyclists about walking and climbing stairs, never mind running. Although i don't usually cycle more than 30 miles a day during the week i have also developed an aversion especially to stair climbing and avoid it wherever possible as despite the fact that im pretty fit at the moment i tend to feel an annoying soreness in my knee when climbing even just a few flights of steps and my heart rate seems to increase above the level that it normally reaches at any time on the bike.
Also the rest days on grand tours were mentioned and instead of being encouraged to see the sights and take in the culture of wherever they are racing Pro cyclists are generally instructed to stay off their feet as much as possible and to have complete rest apart from a short and none too strenous recovery ride to keep their muscles supple and free of any remnants of the previous days lactic acid.
The reason i bring up the pros is that although i realise they are pushing themselves beyond the bounds of all but the most ardent amateurs, and that they need every scrap of energy they have to achieve a goal for their team, the percieved wisdom seems to be that walking and running are not a good complement to their cycling efforts and for the good of their riding they should steer clear of those particular pursuits whenever they can.
Personally i have also found that while my bike related fitness has consistently increased, my aptitude and enjoyment of running has completely fell away, and the only reason i can attribute this to is that it is somehow linked to the above and i find that instead of cycling having a positive effect on running it seems to have only a negative one.

 

[sogood]

Did I read somewhere that Eddy Merckx used to walk as his method of recovery. Maybe that's a long time ago...

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Agree with last post. Running as a supplement helps your cardio fitness, which will benefit cycling, but not as much as pure cycling.

Specificity vs. cross training benefit has been extensively studied. The general conclusion is that cross training has the most benefit to the least trained athletes while highly trained athletes in a given sport don't get as much cross training benefit and should emphasize specificity. Here's a good article with references that discusses this relative to running and cycling: http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/resources/educational-resources/exphys/99/runcycle.cfm

-Dave

 

[sogood]

Specificity vs. cross training benefit has been extensively studied. The general conclusion is that cross training has the most benefit to the least trained athletes while highly trained athletes in a given sport don't get as much cross training benefit and should emphasize specificity. Here's a good article with references that discusses this relative to running and cycling: http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/resources/educational-resources/exphys/99/runcycle.cfm

But that study is based on endurance running. I wonder how short distance runners would do wrt their speed on the bike.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

But that study is based on endurance running. I wonder how short distance runners would do wrt their speed on the bike.

I read that paper quite differently and see it as a comparison of specificity vs. cross training transfer. It cites a number of studies that look at things like musculature recruited for running vs. cycling:

In endurance training, the overload of specific muscle groups enhances work performance and aerobic power by facilitating both oxygen transport and utilization at the local level of the trained muscles (McArdle et al 1996). Although musculature used for cycling overlaps with that used during running, biomechanical analysis suggests that ranges of motion, length of muscles, type of contraction and speed of contraction can be quite different....

and cites specific cross training studies for both trained and untrained individuals:

Previous research has documented the limited cardiorespiratory improvement that can transfer between running and cycling training when training in one of these exercise modes. Ruby et al (1996) commented that the majority of these investigations were designed to answer questions of training specificity in moderately to highly trained individuals, and have neglected to specifically address the cross-training concept. In their study, they found that the previously untrained females could increase treadmill running and cycle ergometer VO2max from either running, cycling, or combined running and cycling training. These increases could be detected after five weeks of training, and show further improvement with an additional five weeks of training. Interestingly, none of the three training groups showed significant improvements in arm ergometry VO2max during the entire 10 weeks of training, a finding indicating that central training adaptations were minimal.

I don't see anything that particularly studies long distance vs. short distance runners, characterizing them as "endurance athletes" applies equally well to both types of runners just as it describes cyclists from tour riders to points racers on the track or anyone else that relies heavily on their aerobic systems.

It's funny how folks can read the same papers and draw different conclusions, but as far as I can tell the paper talks about the need to be specific in training for well trained athletes but supports the idea of cross training benefits for less trained athletes and the general public.

-Dave

 

[pistole]

agree with poster somewhere above about climbing stairs.

we can ride absurd distances , but ask me go climb 5 stories of stairs and I can die.
.

 

[Powderfinger]

agree with poster somewhere above about climbing stairs.

we can ride absurd distances , but ask me go climb 5 stories of stairs and I can die.
.

I'll just say this: in college I rowed crew, a sport which really rocks your quads, so I thought I would be great at stairs. Then came the stadium workouts: hands down the best / hardest workout I've done... essentially sprinting up stadium benches, skipping every second row. It's a ***** of a workout but it's very good at getting you past plateaus.

 

[TrekDedicated]

The only reason I run sometimes is:

1) Bone density. I say 'no' to osteoporosis

2) Cross-training. I would say there is at least a slight improvement in my cycling ability. It may be mental, but that is still an improvement.

3) I'm serious contemplating starting to train in triathalons, so I might as well run.

But, I hate stairs (my HR sky rockets) and I hate walking.