Running in the rain....

Jonathan Sydenham said:

KY jelly might help even if u r not from LA if applied to nipples j

Does that increase the sensetivity? Mine are like dead meat.

Dot dot.h@#att.net said:

Doug Gilliam wrote: I think we need to be

Quoted message said:

able to run in almost any type of conditions including heavy rain.

Right. The only weather-related reasons I think I've heard for *some* races being cancelled are
ice, lightening, and life-threatening things like major floods and hurricanes.

races are special, but doing a training run in the rain isn't for me. i bet none of you wear
glasses. ...thehick

Dot,

The last race I ran was in one of the worst lightening storms I've ever seen. We ran in the Myrtle
Beach Marathon Relay in about '97 (not sure of the year) and I ran the first 5 mile leg.

It was starting to rain as the race began and within a half a mile we were running in a tremendous
thunder/lightening storm. Huge booms with lightening everywhere. At times we were running through 6"
of water. If it hadn't been a relay where I had 4 other people depending on me, I would definitely
have stopped but I continued on and so did almost everyone else.

The funny part for me was that I had bought new shoes that were about 4 ounces lighter than my
training shoes just for this race because I wanted to beat 7:30 pace for my leg and had told the
other people on my team that I would do so. Considering that my shoes and socks were totally soaked
in less than a mile, I'm sure they weighed a lot more than my normal training shoes weighed so it
kind of defeated the purpose for buying new shoes.

The good news is that I ran about 7:15 pace anyway so I beat my time goal even with the heavy
feet. It was the wildest running experience I've ever had. I really felt like an idiot running
down main street in Myrtle Beach in an incredible thunder/lightening. I remember thinking this as
I was running
:-).

Doug Gilliam

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Gilliam wrote: I think we need to be

Quoted message said:

able to run in almost any type of conditions including heavy rain.

Right. The only weather-related reasons I think I've heard for *some* races being cancelled are
ice, lightening, and life-threatening things like major floods and hurricanes. Some races will be
held regardless, esp. if the condition developed after the start of the race (like lightening on
Colorado mtn ridges - which is almost a given for the ultras there; or rising waters as a result
of rain during race). A large portion of my first event was on ice.

I generally take advantage of differing conditions to test gear - and whether it's needed or not.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Jane wrote: ....Although

Quoted message said:

I would have been soaked in any case, I wonder if tights would have offered any protection to my
legs or once they were wet would I have been just as cold? Any thoughts on this? Since this
experience I have been avoiding running in the rain.

If I were you, I'd run in the next rain and wear tights and see how they work. Everybody is
different as far as heat they generate, how readily it gets to the legs, heat loss through the legs,
comfort levels, etc. If tights are synthetic, they shouldn't sap cold like wet cotton. But there's
still minimal insulation, which may or may not be an issue with your body heat dynamics - it should
help some, but maybe not as much as you need.

My data points are that I loose a lot of heat through legs and my muscles may not respond as they
normally do, so *I* tend to like to be sure my legs are warm. I've worn SportHills xc pants in about
the same conditions you describe (2+ hr duathlon so not as long, but legs more exposed for 3/4 of it
on the bike). I was glad I had them on. Others raced in shorts. Some were cold and almost
hypothermic by the end, others were not.

Oh, I now have complete rain gear for longer runs and events in cold rain (possibly barely above
freezing), which I can expect. I run with a camelbak for most things over 1 hr, so carrying
lightweight gear isn't an issue, and it's nice to have when ma nature wants to spice things up.

But that's me. YMMV. Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

In article said:

I ran my first half marathon recently (end of October). Previously I had run a little in the rain
(mostly warm rain for short distances - a not unpleasant experience). For the half, it was both
cold and fairly hard rain for the entire race.

When I checked the weather before leaving for the race the rain was quite light and it seemed warm
so I opted for a t-shirt and shorts. By the time I got to the race it was pretty cold (about 9 C)
and raining hard and I was

9c is quite warm, but it will feel cold if you get very wet.

Quoted message said:

miserable for the entire race. I assumed I would warm up but my legs felt cold and heavy
throughout. This was quite a novel experience for me since previously the problem was more likely
to be that I was too warm. Although I would have been soaked in any case,

A waterproof jacket goes a long way. Can't do much about the shoes though (except to change into a
dry pair as soon as the race is done!)

Quoted message said:

I wonder if tights would have offered any protection to my legs or once they were wet

Absolutely. The tights will offer substantial protection from the wind (= less risk of frostbite),
and even when they're drenched, they do provide some insulation.

If the rain is *really* heavy, you may want to wear waterproof pants, especially if it's an everyday
training run and not a race.

Quoted message said:

would I have been just as cold? Any thoughts on this? Since this experience I have been avoiding
running in the rain.

I think you should do exactly the opposite -- go out of your way to run in the rain, and experiment
a little. That way, you'll be better prepared next time you have a race like this.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I wear glasses... and personally... I love running in the rain. I find that a fine mist can be a
problem with glasses, but rain has never caused a problem for me. Worse comes to worse I can pop in
some single use contacts.

frank-in-toronto said:

races are special, but doing a training run in the rain isn't for me. i bet none of you wear
glasses. ...thehick

--
David Nova Scotia, Canada

frank-in-toronto said:

Dot dot.h@#att.net said:

Doug Gilliam wrote: I think we need to be

Quoted message said:

able to run in almost any type of conditions including heavy rain.

Right. The only weather-related reasons I think I've heard for *some* races being cancelled are
ice, lightening, and life-threatening things like major floods and hurricanes.

races are special, but doing a training run in the rain isn't for me. i bet none of you wear
glasses. ...thehick

No, but I'm sympathetic with the plight - and a reason why I would run in the rain with glasses
before an event - to see what types of issues might pop up and how to solve them. My feet cramp when
wet, so I run in rain and through puddles to see if certain combinations of shoes/socks work better
than others.

Rain and fog on glasses from breath in cold air is one reason I had switched to contacts when biking
and xc skiing, but I don't use them anymore - my distance vision has improved in recent years (after
I stopped wearing contacts constantly) and I'm not that fast when running. (I use glasses for
driving, computer, and reading.)

However, I have seriously thought about wearing some sort of eye protection like goggles, esp. when
the wind kicks up like it did yesterday - blowing snow and grit at +5F can chew one's face and eyes.
I think I've heard of some ultra runners deliberately wearing glasses rather than contacts for eye
protection - branches poking in from side of trail in the dark. Yellow tinted goggles or sun glasses
(aviation or skiing) really help depth perception around snow drifts on gray days like today.

I'll also confess to possibly having a weird sense of what's fun 🙂

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Doug Gilliam said:

Dot,

The last race I ran was in one of the worst lightening storms I've ever seen. We ran in the Myrtle
Beach Marathon Relay in about '97 (not sure of the year) and I ran the first 5 mile leg.

This is why I said "some" 😉 At the time I posted, I had forgotten that one marathon (mostly trails)
up here had been cancelled because of excessively deep snow and much colder temperatures than normal
- maybe 1-2 ft when it usually has 0-3 in, for example. It had not been intended to be a snowshoe
race and there were probably issues trying to get emergency and aid stations set up. Courses were
rerouted last year because of lack of snow and unfrozen rivers.

But, yea, in general the race must go on 🙂

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Be advised, this guy is a TREADMILL JOGGER, so be very careful whom you take advice from.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

I ran my first half marathon recently (end of October). Previously I had run a little in the rain
(mostly warm rain for short distances - a not unpleasant experience). For the half, it was both
cold and fairly hard rain for the entire race.

When I checked the weather before leaving for the race the rain was quite light and it seemed
warm so I opted for a t-shirt and shorts. By the time I got to the race it was pretty cold (about
9 C) and raining hard and I was

9c is quite warm, but it will feel cold if you get very wet.

Quoted message said:

miserable for the entire race. I assumed I would warm up but my legs felt cold and heavy
throughout. This was quite a novel experience for me since previously the problem was more likely
to be that I was too warm. Although I would have been soaked in any case,

A waterproof jacket goes a long way. Can't do much about the shoes though (except to change into a
dry pair as soon as the race is done!)

Quoted message said:

I wonder if tights would have offered any protection to my legs or once they were wet

Absolutely. The tights will offer substantial protection from the wind (= less risk of frostbite),
and even when they're drenched, they do provide some insulation.

If the rain is *really* heavy, you may want to wear waterproof pants, especially if it's an
everyday training run and not a race.

Quoted message said:

would I have been just as cold? Any thoughts on this? Since this experience I have been avoiding
running in the rain.

I think you should do exactly the opposite -- go out of your way to run in the rain, and experiment
a little. That way, you'll be better prepared next time you have a race like this.

Cheers,

In article said:

Jane wrote: ....Although

Quoted message said:

I would have been soaked in any case, I wonder if tights would have offered any protection to my
legs or once they were wet would I have been just as cold? Any thoughts on this? Since this
experience I have been avoiding running in the rain.

If I were you, I'd run in the next rain and wear tights and see how they work. Everybody is
different as far as heat they generate, how readily it gets to the legs, heat loss through the
legs, comfort levels, etc. If tights are synthetic, they shouldn't sap cold like wet cotton. But
there's still minimal insulation, which may or may not be an issue with your body heat dynamics -
it should help some, but maybe not as much as you need.

I'd second this advice. I'd be surprised if tights were inadequate -- where I live, we often have
this sort of weather (almost freezing, with rain and wind). It's true that they don't offer that
much insulation, but your legs can generate a lot of heat so you don't need that much -- you mostly
need to avoid exposed skin. But as you point out, there's a lot of individual variation, and what
works for me might not work for others. There are also other variables -- whether it's a race or an
easy training run (you generate more heat if you run fast), whether or not you have to stand still
for any amount of time (you'll cool down pretty quickly if you stand still for long) The only way to
find out is through trial and error.

The one thing that really bugs me about this sort of weather is that if it's wet on the ground, your
feet get wet. Since I never worked out a completely adequate solution, I can offer little advice on
this (besides "get the hell out of those wet shoes as soon as you're done!"😉

Quoted message said:

My data points are that I loose a lot of heat through legs and my muscles may not respond as they
normally do, so *I* tend to like to be sure my legs are warm. I've worn SportHills xc pants in
about the same conditions you describe (2+ hr duathlon so not as long, but legs more

Not comparable IMO -- because of the extra airflow, you have more windchill on the bike. For
example, if you're expecting to ride at about 20mph, you need several degrees colder. From what I
recall about windchill (which according to Glover's book was devised to make people more aware of
the effect of wind on the risk of frostbite), it would be very ill-advised to wear shorts on a bike
during a race in almost-freezing conditions.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

Be advised, this guy is a TREADMILL JOGGER, so be very careful whom you take advice from.

Exactly. Be careful who you take advice from. Better a treadmill jogger than a troll, right ?

PS here's a "treadmill jogger" running 4 miles in just over 24 minutes.

greaternewyorkrt.orgDonovan jpg.htmOpen ↗

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

Jane wrote: ....Although

Quoted message said:

I would have been soaked in any case, I wonder if tights would have offered any protection to my
legs or once they were wet would I have been just as cold? Any thoughts on this? Since this
experience I have been avoiding running in the rain.

If I were you, I'd run in the next rain and wear tights and see how they work. Everybody is
different as far as heat they generate, how readily it gets to the legs, heat loss through the
legs, comfort levels, etc. If tights are synthetic, they shouldn't sap cold like wet cotton. But
there's still minimal insulation, which may or may not be an issue with your body heat dynamics -
it should help some, but maybe not as much as you need.

I'd second this advice. I'd be surprised if tights were inadequate -- where I live, we often have
this sort of weather (almost freezing, with rain and wind). It's true that they don't offer that
much insulation, but your legs can generate a lot of heat so you don't need that much -- you
mostly need to avoid exposed skin. But as you point out, there's a lot of individual variation,
and what works for me might not work for others.

Right for the individual variation. I've found in cold rains, that thin protection may keep you dry
(thinking rain gear here), but as the water runs off, it will still have a chilling effect. It's a
matter of energy balance for individuals.

For me, it's easier to wear the long pants (I've never seen anybody here wear tights) than to try to
pump enough heat from the core through the pipes (legs, with high surface / volume compared to core)
which are generating and losing heat - and more reliable. For me, I've found I'm comfortable running
/ racing in Sporthills at +50F (although usually there's a breeze) although that's close to break
point for me (clouds ok, sun too warm). My legs may start feeling overly warm, but my muscles /
tendons (esp. achilles) work much better that way than if I'm running a little on the cool side -
and reduces injury potential (for me). I've also found if my legs/feet get cold shortly after
starting out (like snow drifts outside my front door today in 0F today), it may take forever (30
min) to get them warmed up again.

There are also

Quoted message said:

other variables -- whether it's a race or an easy training run (you generate more heat if you run
fast), whether or not you have to stand still for any amount of time (you'll cool down pretty
quickly if you stand still for long) The only way to find out is through trial and error.

Amen. I think that's something people overlook with their training, thinking it's just a matter of
building TOL and figuring out the food / fluid issues. That's also when one figures out how to
deal with weather conditions. Will shoes work in mud? Is my rain gear breathable at these
temperatures? etc

Quoted message said:

The one thing that really bugs me about this sort of weather is that if it's wet on the ground,
your feet get wet. Since I never worked out a completely adequate solution, I can offer little
advice on this (besides "get the hell out of those wet shoes as soon as you're done!"😉

I'm still working on that one also. So far I've just been using more drainable shoes compared with
my old ones - and better socks (thorlos vs coolmax although I think some of my others will work
also, just haven't tested) 😉 but I don't think I've had those conditions over an hour. But this is
why I run in the rain or whatever (as long as mud isn't too slippery) - so I can work these things
out before race day - potentially 12 hours of running in rain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My data points are that I loose a lot of heat through legs and my muscles may not respond as they
normally do, so *I* tend to like to be sure my legs are warm. I've worn SportHills xc pants in
about the same conditions you describe (2+ hr duathlon so not as long, but legs more

Not comparable IMO -- because of the extra airflow, you have more windchill on the bike. For
example, if you're expecting to ride at about 20mph, you need several degrees colder.

Actually, the windchill from the cycling motion, even without the bike moving, is significant on the
legs. And I'm not going anywhere near 20mph or even 10mph when biking uphill on a trail in the rain
😉 - running and biking about same speed on some hills. At the time I wrote my post, I was thinking
more along the lines of marathon and 4 hr, but I obviously confused threads or something in my brain
since OP referred to half marathon. I was thinking 2 hr duathlon might have some semblance to 4 hr
running. However, at the WMRT this year (probably high 30's, low 40's in very wet snow, most
finished in < 1hr or so), the racers had everything from shorts and singlets to long tops and
bottoms, although those with shorts had really red legs. One of the citizen race runners wore a loin
cloth and running shoes, apparently his usual garb at mtn runs 😉 To each his own.

From what I recall about windchill (which according to

Quoted message said:

Glover's book was devised to make people more aware of the effect of wind on the risk of
frostbite), it would be very ill-advised to wear shorts on a bike during a race in almost-freezing
conditions.

+9C (the original conditions Jane described) is almost 50F and similar to my duathlon. Many people
were wearing shorts and t-shirts (some were almost hypothermic by end). It's just us old fogies that
were wearing sporthills or equivalents. But yea, when you get near freezing, I think everyone wears
long pants of some sort on a bike - or starts out with leg warmers and might take them off as day
warms up. And when biking near 0F, the layering gets really interesting.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Exactly. Be careful who you take advice from. Better a treadmill jogger than a troll, right ?

Nope.

Quoted message said:

PS here's a "treadmill jogger" running 4 miles in just over 24 minutes.

greaternewyorkrt.orgDonovan jpg.htmOpen ↗

Exceptions to the rule do nothing to further your case.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Exactly. Be careful who you take advice from. Better a treadmill jogger than a troll, right ?

Nope.

You're a proven liar. That in itself makes your opinion worthless.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS here's a "treadmill jogger" running 4 miles in just over 24 minutes.

greaternewyorkrt.orgDonovan jpg.htmOpen ↗

Exceptions to the rule do nothing to further your case.

Since "the rule" is not a rule, you're lying, as usual.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You're a proven liar. That in itself makes your opinion worthless.

Proven by what and by whom? You are truly pathetic, just a little troll-worm, and you try to tell
others I am the troll. Truly golden. BTW, did you jog on yer widdle treadmill today?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS here's a "treadmill jogger" running 4 miles in just over 24 minutes.

greaternewyorkrt.orgDonovan jpg.htmOpen ↗

Exceptions to the rule do nothing to further your case.

Since "the rule" is not a rule, you're lying, as usual.

You can twist my words anyway you want too, you're still a moron.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You're a proven liar. That in itself makes your opinion worthless.

Proven by what and by whom? You are truly pathetic, just a little troll-worm, and you try to tell
others I am the troll. Truly golden.

Proven by me. You claimed I was a "treadmill jogger". This is not the way one usually describes a
competitive runner who regularly competes in local races. I posted a photograph of myself running
for a serious racing team.

I think this proves, beyond reasonable doubt that your description is woefully misleading, which
makes you a liar.

If that alone is insufficient, here is a list of races I competed in this year:

Frostbite classic Grid Iron Classic Valentine's Twosome Snowflake Rabbit Run Downtown Dash Run to
Liberty Fifth Avenue Mile AHA Wall Street Run Poland Spring Classic Race to Deliver

Quoted message said:

BTW, did you jog on yer widdle treadmill today?

Don't use the treadmil all that often, total of 4 treadmill runs for November.

That makes my usage of the treadmill the exception, not the rule.

And that makes you a liar.

Not that it matters -- running on a treadmill is much more demanding than being an anonymous
usenet moron.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>PS here's a "treadmill jogger" running 4 miles in just over 24 minutes.
>
>greaternewyorkrt.orgDonovan jpg.htmOpen ↗

Exceptions to the rule do nothing to further your case.

Since "the rule" is not a rule, you're lying, as usual.

You can twist my words anyway you want too,

I don't have to twist your words to make you look like an idiot.

Quoted message said:

you're still a moron.

You give morons a bad name.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Proven by me.

The word of a liar is worthless.

Quoted message said:

u claimed I was a "treadmill jogger". This is not the way

Again you're lieing.

Quoted message said:

one usually describes a competitive runner who regularly competes in local races. I posted a
photograph of myself running for a serious racing team.

No, you posted a pic of SOMEONE running, not you.

Quoted message said:

I think this proves, beyond reasonable doubt that your description is woefully misleading, which
makes you a liar.

We only have the word of a liar on that one.

Quoted message said:

If that alone is insufficient, here is a list of races I competed in this year:

Frostbite classic Grid Iron Classic Valentine's Twosome Snowflake Rabbit Run Downtown Dash Run to
Liberty Fifth Avenue Mile AHA Wall Street Run Poland Spring Classic Race to Deliver

So says the word of a L-I-A-R. Posts from a liar are generally lies. Just because some clown ran a
few races, and you picked up on it, then faked a few websites to backup your phony theorys. Sad,
truly sad.

Quoted message said:

Don't use the treadmil all that often, total of 4 treadmill runs for November.

Now try some REAL running.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Proven by me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one usually describes a competitive runner who regularly competes in local races. I posted a
photograph of myself running for a serious racing team.

No, you posted a pic of SOMEONE running, not you.

I'm enjoying watching you dig a deeper hole for yourself.

You can look cross-reference bib numbers and runner names on the NYRR website. Be my guest. 2263 is
my bib number and has been since the Snowflake race.

Quoted message said:

So says the word of a L-I-A-R. Posts from a liar are generally lies. Just because some clown ran a
few races, and you picked up on it, then faked a few websites to backup your phony theorys. Sad,
truly sad.

If nyrrc.orgnyrrc.orgOpen ↗ is a "fake website", then do tell us, liar, what is the website of the real
New York Road Runners Club ? Or are you going to try to argue that the New York Roadrunners club is
a hoax ? Wouldn't it be easier to just say "OK, you win, Mr. Realbitchy" -- or are you going to keep
squirming on the hook ?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't use the treadmil all that often, total of 4 treadmill runs for November.

Now try some REAL running.

154 miles this month, troll. 130 or so of those were outdoors. So, liar, which is greater -- 130 or
24 ? Which one would you call "the rule" and which would you call "the exception" ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

colm said:

Wrap up well?? Wimp!
:-)

I bet he wears condoms too!

Jonathan Sydenham said:

KY jelly might help even if u r not from LA if applied to nipples j

Does that increase the sensetivity? Mine are like dead meat.