Running vs. Cycling up steep hills?

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> >Yes, there is. The hill has to be pretty steep, though.
> >Consider this: you can easily (well, not really easily)
> >run up stairs, but it is impossible to ride any real
> >distance up a hill sloped as high as stairs are. They run
> >around 64%, (7" step height for an 11" tread) more or
> >less. 20% is considered a very steep hill to ride up.
>
> It's all a matter of gearing. Nobody installs gears for
> this sort of thing, for obvious reasons! Doesn't mean it
> couldn't be done....

At some point, traction is going to become an issue,
though...

--
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[Chris Neary]

David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> >Yes, there is. The hill has to be pretty steep, though.
>> >Consider this: you can easily (well, not really easily)
>> >run up stairs, but it is impossible to ride any real
>> >distance up a hill sloped as high as stairs are. They
>> >run around 64%, (7" step height for an 11" tread) more
>> >or less. 20% is considered a very steep hill to ride up.
>>
>> It's all a matter of gearing. Nobody installs gears for
>> this sort of thing, for obvious reasons! Doesn't mean it
>> couldn't be done....
>
>At some point, traction is going to become an issue,
>though...

Keeping the front wheel on the ground will also be an issue
as the center of gravity shifts to the rear.....

Chris Neary [email protected]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you
ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I loved" -
Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 27 Apr 2004 14:37:41 -0700, [email protected] (Chalo)
wrote:
>Running is not a "talent". It is the chief activity of
>cockroaches and other untalented creatures. It is an
>activity to be engaged in when required to avoid death or
>serious blood loss. (But then, so are other undignified
>activities, like losing one's bowels.)

Chalo, I find that I'm agreeing with you more and more
often lately. Does this have anything to do with some
weight I've gained, or is it just that I'm auto-ignoring
political threads?
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 27 Apr 2004 21:53:34 GMT, [email protected] (TopCounsel) wrote:
>>Yes, there is. The hill has to be pretty steep, though.
>>Consider this:
>
>It's all a matter of gearing. Nobody installs gears for
>this sort of thing, for obvious reasons! Doesn't mean it
>couldn't be done....

Wasn't the question which would be faster, not which is
more possible?
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Harris]

Chris Neary <[email protected]> wrote:
> >At some point, traction is going to become an issue,
> >though...

> Keeping the front wheel on the ground will also be an
> issue as the center of gravity shifts to the rear.....

You also have to maintain a speed of ~4mph to keep the bike
upright. On a long, steep climb many riders will not be able
to maintain that pace no matter how low the gearing is.

Art Harris

 

[Badger_south]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:01:23 GMT, Harris
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Chris Neary <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >At some point, traction is going to become an issue,
>> >though...
>
>> Keeping the front wheel on the ground will also be an
>> issue as the center of gravity shifts to the rear.....
>
>You also have to maintain a speed of ~4mph to keep the
>bike upright. On a long, steep climb many riders will not
>be able to maintain that pace no matter how low the
>gearing is.
>
>Art Harris

Right. Though we're talking a 'fresh, motivated rider', if
you follow adventure racing, even the very good teams, with
world-class MTN bike riders frequently have to carry the
bikes up very steep trails. Though these are often
"unimproved" single tracks.

So I guess it depends whom you ask, and what the surface and
conditions are, and what type of bike. But in general, there
are many conditions under which a runner will beat a biker.

Of course Bryan Allen might argue with you! ;-p

-B

 

[Terry Morse]

Chris Neary wrote:
>
> The only reference I have for something closer to the
> original question was climbing Metcalf Road (2 miles of
> 10%) during the Tierra Bella Century on our tandem. Speed
> was approximately 5 MPH, but we passed more riders than
> passed us. It was a guilty pleasure to watch riders with
> double chainrings suffer while we spun our 26 X 32.

The Tierra Bella, this year? I was there, too, but on the
200k. Metcalf climb came at the 79.5 mile mark. Let me check
my stats for Metcalf on that ride: 1.7 miles, 10.3%, 6.9 mph
average. That's 60.5 ft/min, or 1107 m/hr, or about the
speed of the pro "autobus". Nobody passed me. I used a 30 x
19 most of the way, which allowed me to stay in the saddle.
I suppose I could have gone faster if it were a race, but
not much faster.

According to stats from pro races, the best pros could do
that hill at or above 10 mph.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Chris Neary]

>> The only reference I have for something closer to the
>> original question was climbing Metcalf Road (2 miles of
>> 10%) during the Tierra Bella Century on our tandem. Speed
>> was approximately 5 MPH, but we passed more riders than
>> passed us. It was a guilty pleasure to watch riders with
>> double chainrings suffer while we spun our 26 X 32.
>
>The Tierra Bella, this year?

Nope, several years ago. I was out of town for most of
April, so my wife was "forced" to do the Tierra Bella 100
miler on her single with a few girlfriends.

> I was there, too, but on the 200k. Metcalf climb came at
> the 79.5 mile mark. Let me check my stats for Metcalf on
> that ride: 1.7 miles, 10.3%, 6.9 mph average. That's
> 60.5 ft/min, or 1107 m/hr, or about the speed of the pro
> "autobus". Nobody passed me. I used a 30 x 19 most of
> the way, which allowed me to stay in the saddle. I
> suppose I could have gone faster if it were a race, but
> not much faster.

I'm sure my wife climbed it in her 30 X 27 w/650C wheels.
Pretty low gearing, but I'll leave it to someone else to do
the math and estimate a speed for her.

Chris Neary [email protected]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you
ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I loved" -
Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

 

[Bill]

I found a road today by accident on a combined road/off
road/mountain ride that I planned out on Tuesday. I hit a
section of about 400 feet with a rise of about 16% (best
guess) and had to granny it (26 chainring/39 rear). I had a
real problem keepint the front wheel on the ground and wound
up doing s turns back and forth across the pavement so as
not too wheely over. I stayed on the bike since this was
paved but a runner could have passed me even if only for a
while. Later in the day I ran into about a 15% grade on
gravel and had to walk for lack of traction, fortunately
only a few hundred feet of that. It is kind of a toss up in
some conditions. Just my two cents. BTW, I was riding around
Beale Air Force Base by way of Camp Far West reservoir in
northern California, about 30 mile northeast from
Sacramento. I am a newbie poster here but an old time rider
at 55, not a speed demon but I like to rack up the miles and
scenery. Bill

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:45:06 GMT, Chris Neary
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> The only reference I have for something closer to the
>>> original question was climbing Metcalf Road (2 miles of
>>> 10%) during the Tierra Bella Century on our tandem.
>>> Speed was approximately 5 MPH, but we passed more riders
>>> than passed us. It was a guilty pleasure to watch riders
>>> with double chainrings suffer while we spun our 26 X 32.
>>
>> The Tierra Bella, this year?
>
> Nope, several years ago. I was out of town for most of
> April, so my wife was "forced" to do the Tierra Bella 100
> miler on her single with a few girlfriends.
>
>> I was there, too, but on the 200k. Metcalf climb came at
>> the 79.5 mile mark. Let me check my stats for Metcalf on
>> that ride: 1.7 miles, 10.3%, 6.9 mph average. That's 60.5
>> ft/min, or 1107 m/hr, or about the speed of the pro
>> "autobus". Nobody passed me. I used a 30 x 19 most of the
>> way, which allowed me to stay in the saddle. I suppose I
>> could have gone faster if it were a race, but not much
>> faster.
>
> I'm sure my wife climbed it in her 30 X 27 w/650C wheels.
> Pretty low gearing, but I'll leave it to someone else to
> do the math and estimate a speed for her.
>
>
> Chris Neary [email protected]
>
> "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could you
> ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I loved"
> - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

--
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[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I found a road today by accident on a combined road/off
> road/mountain ride that I planned out on Tuesday. I hit a
> section of about 400 feet with a rise of about 16% (best
> guess) and had to granny it (26 chainring/39 rear).

Where did you find a 39 tooth cog, and what kind of
derailleur will handle it?

....

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[Jacques Moser]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:17:25 +0000, Dan Stumpus wrote:

> I'm a runner (brother Bob is a mtn bike racer in Aspen),
> and the question came up on the rec.running list:
>
> On steep hills, Is there a point where a runner of a given
> talent level will beat an equally talented biker?
>
> There are sections where I run in the San Gabriels above
> LA where I've never been passed by a biker, eg, Eaton
> Canyon bridge to Henninger flats. (when younger I did it
> in 24 minutes, when my vo2 max was 76)
>
> Is this just because I've only encountered weekenders, and
> not racers?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan

Here is a (partially valid) answer at the other end of the
performance range.

When our first son was 1 year old we bought a bike trailer
and a tent, and went for 2 weeks on small roads selected for
low traffic and relative flatness.

At this time I had estimated the combined weight of my bike
+ trailer + baby + luggage to about 60 kg, which is about my
own weight. And I was cycling only very casually at the
time. On the rare and fortunately short climbs we
encountered, I was usually reaching something like 4 km/h. I
tried to dismount and walk my bike, but quickly gave up as
it proved much harder and even slower !

To me, this shows that at equal weight, cycling is more
efficient than walking, even uphill.

Jacques

PS. Downhills were something else ! On the trailer there was
a notice recommending never to exceed 22 km/h. I guess
they were kidding...