S+S couplers versus Ritchey/Dahon design

[[email protected]]

On May 4, 12:44 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 4, 10:19 am, Scott Gordo <[email protected]> wrote:> I've got an 853 tubed frame that I'm considering setting up as a
> > travel bike. I can get a pretty good price on having the S+S couplers
> > installed, though I don't think that includes installing separable
> > cables.
>
> > I'm also considering selling my current bike and investing in the
> > Ritchey Breakaway design.
>
> > As far as on-bike performance, is there any significant difference? Is
> > one superior to the other?
>
> Both systems are good. The Ritchey system is something like 100g
> lighter, does that make a difference to you?
>
> I'm looking at the Cross breakaway, its a very nice bike. The only
> thing is a complete bike will be in the $2500 or so range.
>
> Another option is the newDahonTournado, which uses the breakaway
> system. A completeDahonTournado retail for like $2K, not bad. The
> only problem is I haven't been able to find any specs on the new
> bike.

Here are the specs....
http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm
Just hit the specs tab.

The case is 2" over the airline limit... but, I know a lot of people
who have traveled with these bikes and cases... I've only heard of one
story about getting charged.

s.

 

[bfd]

On May 8, 11:48 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 4, 12:44 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Another option is the newDahonTournado, which uses the breakaway
> > system. A completeDahonTournado retail for like $2K, not bad. The
> > only problem is I haven't been able to find any specs on the new
> > bike.
>
> Here are the specs....http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm
> Just hit the specs tab.
>

>
Sorry, I should be clearer, the "specs" I was looking for was frame
geometry. For example, how long are the top tubes? What is the bottom
bracket drop? What are the seat and head tube angles? I haven't found
this info yet.

 

[[email protected]]

On May 8, 12:37 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 8, 11:48 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On May 4, 12:44 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Another option is the newDahonTournado, which uses the breakaway
> > > system. A completeDahonTournado retail for like $2K, not bad. The
> > > only problem is I haven't been able to find any specs on the new
> > > bike.
>
> > Here are the specs....http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm
> > Just hit the specs tab.
>
> Sorry, I should be clearer, the "specs" I was looking for was frame
> geometry. For example, how long are the top tubes? What is the bottom
> bracket drop? What are the seat and head tube angles? I haven't found
> this info yet.

I know a little birdy... let me see if I can't track these down.

 

[bfd]

On May 8, 4:06 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 8, 12:37 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 11:48 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On May 4, 12:44 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Another option is the newDahonTournado, which uses the breakaway
> > > > system. A completeDahonTournado retail for like $2K, not bad. The
> > > > only problem is I haven't been able to find any specs on the new
> > > > bike.
>
> > > Here are the specs....http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm
> > > Just hit the specs tab.
>
> > Sorry, I should be clearer, the "specs" I was looking for was frame
> > geometry. For example, how long are the top tubes? What is the bottom
> > bracket drop? What are the seat and head tube angles? I haven't found
> > this info yet.
>
> I know a little birdy... let me see if I can't track these down.- Hide quoted text -
>
Thanks. I've posted a question on Dahon's forum with no response. I've
also contacted 2 Dahon dealers and both said they won't know anything
until the product comes out, supposedly some time in June. Let us know
what you find out.

 

[Patrick Lamb]

daveornee wrote:
> Tim McNamara Wrote:
>> Dave, I don't follow that last bit. How does the crank axle type have
>> an effect on packing the bike or the type of coupler?
>
> When you pull the crank off a sqare tapered BB axle it is difficult, if
> not impossibile, to put it back on in the same position each time you go
> through take-apart, pack, un-pack, put-together. There seems to be some
> wear in the aluminum part inside the crank such that each time you
> repeat the cycle the crank moves further up (in on) the axle.
> At least that is what we experienced with traveling with out S & S
> coupled tandem. I used a torque wrench each time to tighten the crank
> bolt, but each time the crank moved closer to the center of the frame.
> Since changing from the tapered-square BB axle we haven't seen the
> issue.

Pardon me for coming in late, but while surfing last night I came across
Co-motion's "how to pack an S&S bike" page and noticed they don't show
the crank being removed while packing. Further "investigation" on the
S&S Machine site showed about half of their pictures had the crank
removed, and the other half were packed with the cranks still on.

What gives? Is it necessary to remove the crank on large bikes, but not
small, or is there some other reason some people have to remove cranks
but not other people?

Pat

 

[SMS]

Scott Gordo wrote:
> I've got an 853 tubed frame that I'm considering setting up as a
> travel bike. I can get a pretty good price on having the S+S couplers
> installed, though I don't think that includes installing separable
> cables.
>
> I'm also considering selling my current bike and investing in the
> Ritchey Breakaway design.
>
> As far as on-bike performance, is there any significant difference? Is
> one superior to the other?

Nah, get the Panasonic, "http://www.yellowjersey.org/pana6.html".

 

[bfd]

On May 9, 9:15 am, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 8, 4:06 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 12:37 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On May 8, 11:48 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 4, 12:44 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Another option is the newDahonTournado, which uses the breakaway
> > > > > system. A completeDahonTournado retail for like $2K, not bad. The
> > > > > only problem is I haven't been able to find any specs on the new
> > > > > bike.
>
> > > > Here are the specs....http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm
> > > > Just hit the specs tab.
>
> > > Sorry, I should be clearer, the "specs" I was looking for was frame
> > > geometry. For example, how long are the top tubes? What is the bottom
> > > bracket drop? What are the seat and head tube angles? I haven't found
> > > this info yet.
>
> > I know a little birdy... let me see if I can't track these down.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Thanks. I've posted a question on Dahon's forum with no response. I've
> also contacted 2 Dahon dealers and both said they won't know anything
> until the product comes out, supposedly some time in June. Let us know
> what you find out.- Hide quoted text -
>
As a follow up, I finally received an email back from Dahon. The stats
on a 56cm is as follows:

TT=55.5 S/Tube angle73.5degrees H/Tube angle:72degrees BBdrop:
6.5"

Further, on the ibob list, I found someone who measured a 52cm:

http://i14.tinypic.com/44bbq69.jpg

I'm a little disapponted that the 56cm has such a short top tube since
I have short legs/long torso and ride a 56cm seat tube/56.5cm top tube
with 12cm stem.

Oh well, I guess its the Ritchey breakaway cross for me!

 

[Dennis Ferguson]

On 2007-05-15, Patrick Lamb <[email protected]> wrote:
> daveornee wrote:
>> Tim McNamara Wrote:
>>> Dave, I don't follow that last bit. How does the crank axle type have
>>> an effect on packing the bike or the type of coupler?
>>
>> When you pull the crank off a sqare tapered BB axle it is difficult, if
>> not impossibile, to put it back on in the same position each time you go
>> through take-apart, pack, un-pack, put-together. There seems to be some
>> wear in the aluminum part inside the crank such that each time you
>> repeat the cycle the crank moves further up (in on) the axle.
>> At least that is what we experienced with traveling with out S & S
>> coupled tandem. I used a torque wrench each time to tighten the crank
>> bolt, but each time the crank moved closer to the center of the frame.
>> Since changing from the tapered-square BB axle we haven't seen the
>> issue.
>
> Pardon me for coming in late, but while surfing last night I came across
> Co-motion's "how to pack an S&S bike" page and noticed they don't show
> the crank being removed while packing. Further "investigation" on the
> S&S Machine site showed about half of their pictures had the crank
> removed, and the other half were packed with the cranks still on.
>
> What gives? Is it necessary to remove the crank on large bikes, but not
> small, or is there some other reason some people have to remove cranks
> but not other people?

It's the size of the bike coupled with the type of case. I can get my
58 cm Co-motion into the S&S soft case without taking the crank off, but
I end up with odd bulges here and there. I would need to remove the
rings to get it into the hard case (I'd also need to cut an inch or so
off the steerer tube, which has a lot of spacers). The Richey case is
a couple of inches larger in one dimension so it is easier to pack.

I'm scared to take the crank off, actually, since I travel with the
bike fairly frequently (over 40 flights so far) and I'm not sure bicycle
parts were designed for such frequent disassembly. I take the front
caliper brake off to pack the bike, and after about 30 disassemblies I
rounded the hex nut which holds it on, requiring disassembly of the
brake to get it out. I've since replaced the nut once more to try to
proactively keep this from happening again, I'd hate to have to do this
with my crank and bottom bracket.

Dennis Ferguson

 

[bfd]

On May 15, 10:31 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Scott Gordo wrote:
> > I've got an 853 tubed frame that I'm considering setting up as a
> > travel bike. I can get a pretty good price on having the S+S couplers
> > installed, though I don't think that includes installing separable
> > cables.
>
> > I'm also considering selling my current bike and investing in the
> > Ritchey Breakaway design.
>
> > As far as on-bike performance, is there any significant difference? Is
> > one superior to the other?
>
> Nah, get the Panasonic, "http://www.yellowjersey.org/pana6.html".

I like the Panasonic, but found two problems. First, it only comes in
sizes up to 53cm. That's it, nothing bigger, which sucks as I ride a
56cm.

Second, a complete Panasonic touring bike has a list weight of 13.8 kg
or 30.42 POUNDS! That is one heavy bike, especially for one that only
goes up to 53cm!

 

[Nick Payne]

"Patrick Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> daveornee wrote:
>> Tim McNamara Wrote:
>>> Dave, I don't follow that last bit. How does the crank axle type have
>>> an effect on packing the bike or the type of coupler?
>>
>> When you pull the crank off a sqare tapered BB axle it is difficult, if
>> not impossibile, to put it back on in the same position each time you go
>> through take-apart, pack, un-pack, put-together. There seems to be some
>> wear in the aluminum part inside the crank such that each time you
>> repeat the cycle the crank moves further up (in on) the axle.
>> At least that is what we experienced with traveling with out S & S
>> coupled tandem. I used a torque wrench each time to tighten the crank
>> bolt, but each time the crank moved closer to the center of the frame.
>> Since changing from the tapered-square BB axle we haven't seen the
>> issue.
>
> Pardon me for coming in late, but while surfing last night I came across
> Co-motion's "how to pack an S&S bike" page and noticed they don't show
> the crank being removed while packing. Further "investigation" on the
> S&S Machine site showed about half of their pictures had the crank
> removed, and the other half were packed with the cranks still on.
>
> What gives? Is it necessary to remove the crank on large bikes, but not
> small, or is there some other reason some people have to remove cranks
> but not other people?
>
Depends on the frame size, the packing case size, the large chainring size,
etc. I have to remove the cranks off my 61cm S&S frame in order to get it
into the normal 26x26x10 hard shell S&S case.

Nick

 

[A Muzi]

>> Tim McNamara Wrote:
>>> Dave, I don't follow that last bit. How does the crank axle type have
>>> an effect on packing the bike or the type of coupler?

> daveornee wrote:
>> When you pull the crank off a sqare tapered BB axle it is difficult, if
>> not impossibile, to put it back on in the same position each time you go
>> through take-apart, pack, un-pack, put-together. There seems to be some
>> wear in the aluminum part inside the crank such that each time you
>> repeat the cycle the crank moves further up (in on) the axle.
>> At least that is what we experienced with traveling with out S & S
>> coupled tandem. I used a torque wrench each time to tighten the crank
>> bolt, but each time the crank moved closer to the center of the frame.
>> Since changing from the tapered-square BB axle we haven't seen the
>> issue.

Patrick Lamb wrote:
> Pardon me for coming in late, but while surfing last night I came across
> Co-motion's "how to pack an S&S bike" page and noticed they don't show
> the crank being removed while packing. Further "investigation" on the
> S&S Machine site showed about half of their pictures had the crank
> removed, and the other half were packed with the cranks still on.
>
> What gives? Is it necessary to remove the crank on large bikes, but not
> small, or is there some other reason some people have to remove cranks
> but not other people?

Yep, you got it. For a given constant "Airline Limit" volume, small
bikes need less disassembly than big bikes. For example some big frames
can't fit with the rear changer attached to the frame end, etc.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

>> Scott Gordo wrote:
>>> I've got an 853 tubed frame that I'm considering setting up as a
>>> travel bike. I can get a pretty good price on having the S+S couplers
>>> installed, though I don't think that includes installing separable
>>> cables.
>>> I'm also considering selling my current bike and investing in the
>>> Ritchey Breakaway design.
>>> As far as on-bike performance, is there any significant difference? Is
>>> one superior to the other?

> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Nah, get the Panasonic, "http://www.yellowjersey.org/pana6.html".

bfd wrote:
> I like the Panasonic, but found two problems. First, it only comes in
> sizes up to 53cm. That's it, nothing bigger, which sucks as I ride a
> 56cm.
>
> Second, a complete Panasonic touring bike has a list weight of 13.8 kg
> or 30.42 POUNDS! That is one heavy bike, especially for one that only
> goes up to 53cm!

For a fully equipped touring bike with seat bag, 2 steel racks, ample
rims and tires, couplers and mudguards it is not out of range for such
bikes. Frameset w/racks and mudguards about six pounds.

current model:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/posd7.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Patrick Lamb]

Nick Payne wrote:
> "Patrick Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Pardon me for coming in late, but while surfing last night I came across
>> Co-motion's "how to pack an S&S bike" page and noticed they don't show
>> the crank being removed while packing. Further "investigation" on the
>> S&S Machine site showed about half of their pictures had the crank
>> removed, and the other half were packed with the cranks still on.
>>
>> What gives? Is it necessary to remove the crank on large bikes, but not
>> small, or is there some other reason some people have to remove cranks
>> but not other people?
>>
> Depends on the frame size, the packing case size, the large chainring size,
> etc. I have to remove the cranks off my 61cm S&S frame in order to get it
> into the normal 26x26x10 hard shell S&S case.

Bummer. I've been thinking about getting an S&S bike, probably around
the same size, but I don't want to mess around with the crank. Wonder
how a Bike Friday compares? Off to the archives!

Pat