Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub repair advice needed.

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Dr . Glen, Sep 4, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dr . Glen

    Dr . Glen Guest

    Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).

    This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)

    I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the bike
    I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is located
    inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to replace it.
    Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?

    Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen
     
    Tags:


  2. Russ Price

    Russ Price Guest

    dr. glen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The brake is located inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace
    > or how to replace it. Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?

    Go to:

    http://www.sram24.com/techdoc/

    and you can get tech manuals in PDF format.
    --
    Russ [email protected] the wabbit to despam "Bill, I doubt that you have
    a freewheel. They went out with mullet haircuts." -Don
     
  3. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "dr. glen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).
    >
    > This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)
    >
    > I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the
    > bike I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is
    > located inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to
    > replace it. Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?
    >
    > Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen

    Is there a particular symptom when you say "bad" ? Does the brake work now? A three speed with
    coaster brake? Most late-engaging brake issues are from loose bearing adjustments. Adjust to the
    slightest perceptible play at the rim when the axle is fixed in a vise or in the bike and your brake
    should engage normally. Do write back.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Guest

    "dr. glen" wrote
    > Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).
    >
    > This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)
    >
    > I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the
    > bike I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is
    > located inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to
    > replace it. Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?
    >
    > Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen

    Could you define "bad brakes"? I had a bike with the Sachs Torpedo Dreigang hub when I was a kid
    (1969 or so), and I had no idea they were still around. Where did you get yours and how old is it?

    As I recall, the brake in question was far more effective in 1st gear than in 3rd, so simultaneous
    downshifting and braking was pretty much mandatory if you were serious about coming to a stop. HTH,
    --
    mark
     
  5. Dr . Glen

    Dr . Glen Guest

    First, I don't know where my head was when I wrote this; Naturally it is a: Sachs TORPEDO and not a:
    Sachs Tornado ...

    ----------------
    Mr. Russ Price:

    > http://www.sram24.com/techdoc/

    Thank you. These manuals are a bit new but hopefully I might pick some info out of them.
    Thanks again.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Ms. Muzi

    > Is there a particular symptom when you say "bad" ? Does the brake work now? A three speed with
    > coaster brake?

    It works, yes, but it is late-engaging. I assume it's a coaster brake but - according to this site:
    <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm> - it could vary. It seems like that over the years the
    gear had three types: coaster-, drum- and later years, disc brakes. I don't believe it have a disc
    break though.

    The label on the hub says: "Sachs Torpedo Dreigang", and just to the right of this is symbol and and
    the number: 36. It look something like this:

    36
    |_____|

    Does anybody know what it means?

    > Most late-engaging brake issues are from loose bearing adjustments. Adjust to the slightest
    > perceptible play at the rim when the axle is fixed in a vise or in the bike and your brake should
    > engage normally.

    Thank you, very helpful and clear.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Mt. Mark (if I can be dr. glen then you certainly can be Mr. Mark :)

    > Could you define "bad brakes"?

    See above ...

    > I had a bike with the Sachs Torpedo Dreigang hub when I was a kid (1969 or so), and I had no idea
    > they were still around. Where did you get yours and how old is it?

    I'm pretty sure of it's sometime from the 80s.

    The Torpedo Dreigang (3 speed) seems to be one of the longest running hub gears ever, now being over
    70 years old and just as good then as it is now. First manufactured by Torpedo, then by Sachs and
    last by SRAM. If you want more information about it, I found this place:
    <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm>.

    > As I recall, the brake in question was far more effective in 1st gear than in 3rd, so simultaneous
    > downshifting and braking was pretty much mandatory if you were serious about coming to a stop.

    Hmm, I've tried it and I must say that your statement is probably correct. I have only done it for a
    few times but it do feel snappier - although the brake is still very late-engaging of course

    Thank you,. Glen

    In article dr. glen <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).
    >
    >This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)
    >
    >I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the
    >bike I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is located
    >inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to replace it.
    >Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?
    >
    >Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen
     
  6. Dr . Glen

    Dr . Glen Guest

    First, I don't know where my head was when I wrote this; Naturally it is a: Sachs TORPEDO and not a:
    Sachs Tornado ...

    ----------------
    Mr. Russ Price:

    > http://www.sram24.com/techdoc/

    Thank you. These manuals are a bit new but hopefully I might pick some info out of them.
    Thanks again.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Ms. Muzi

    > Is there a particular symptom when you say "bad" ? Does the brake work now? A three speed with
    > coaster brake?

    It works, yes, but it is late-engaging. I assume it's a coaster brake but - according to this site:
    <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm> - it could vary. It seems like that over the years the
    gear had three types: coaster-, drum- and later years, disc brakes. I don't believe it have a disc
    break though.

    The label on the hub says: "Sachs Torpedo Dreigang", and just to the right of this is symbol and and
    the number: 36. It look something like this:

    36
    |_____|

    Does anybody know what it means?

    > Most late-engaging brake issues are from loose bearing adjustments. Adjust to the slightest
    > perceptible play at the rim when the axle is fixed in a vise or in the bike and your brake should
    > engage normally.

    Thank you, very helpful and clear.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Mt. Mark (if I can be dr. glen then you certainly can be Mr. Mark :)

    > Could you define "bad brakes"?

    See above ...

    > I had a bike with the Sachs Torpedo Dreigang hub when I was a kid (1969 or so), and I had no idea
    > they were still around. Where did you get yours and how old is it?

    I'm pretty sure of it's sometime from the 80s.

    The Torpedo Dreigang (3 speed) seems to be one of the longest running hub gears ever, now being over
    70 years old and just as good then as it is now. First manufactured by Torpedo, then by Sachs and
    last by SRAM. If you want more information about it, I found this place:
    <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm>.

    > As I recall, the brake in question was far more effective in 1st gear than in 3rd, so simultaneous
    > downshifting and braking was pretty much mandatory if you were serious about coming to a stop.

    Hmm, I've tried it and I must say that your statement is probably correct. I have only done it for a
    few times but it do feel snappier - although the brake is still very late-engaging of course

    Thank you,. Glen

    In article dr. glen <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).
    >
    >This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)
    >
    >I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the
    >bike I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is located
    >inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to replace it.
    >Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?
    >
    >Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen
     
  7. Quoth dr. glen:

    > It works, yes, but it is late-engaging. I assume it's a coaster brake but - according to this
    > site: <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm> - it could vary. It seems like that over the
    > years the gear had three types: coaster-, drum- and later years, disc brakes. I don't believe it
    > have a disc break though.

    It is easy to tell. If you apply the brake by turning the pedals backward, it's a coaster brake.

    If you squeeze a handle on the handlebars to apply the brake, it's a drum brake.

    > The label on the hub says: "Sachs Torpedo Dreigang",

    "Dreigang" is German for "three speed."

    > and just to the right of this is symbol and and the number: 36. It look something like this:
    >
    > 36
    > |_____|
    >
    > Does anybody know what it means?

    Yes, that's how many spoke holes there are in the hub.

    > Hmm, I've tried it and I must say that your statement is probably correct. I have only done it for
    > a few times but it do feel snappier - although the brake is still very late-engaging of course

    That suggests a coaster brake. Make sure that the arm under the left chainstay is securely bolted in
    place so it can't move around.

    Lubrication might help, medium-weight oil is good. If the hub doesn't have an oil port, you can lay
    the bike on its left side, unscrew the little chain that connects the shift cable to the hub, and
    drip oil in there. If it has been a while, I'd put in 30 drops.

    Sheldon "Phil Wood Tenacious Oil" Brown +------------------------------------------------------+
    | If a man does not keep pace with his companions, | perhaps it is because he hears a different
    | drummer. | Let him step to the music which he hears, | however measured or far away. -- Thoreau |
    +------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  8. Glen

    Glen Guest

    Quoth Sheldon Brown ...

    >> It works, yes, but it is late-engaging. I assume it's a coaster brake but - according to this
    >> site: <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm> - it could vary. It seems like that over the
    >> years the gear had three types: coaster-, drum- and later years, disc brakes. I don't believe it
    >> have a disc break though.
    >
    >It is easy to tell. If you apply the brake by turning the pedals backward, it's a coaster brake.

    Ah, I see, well I said I was a newbe :) The bike absolutely have a coaster brake.

    >> and just to the right of this is symbol and and the number: 36. It look something like this:
    >>
    >> 36
    >> |_____|
    >>
    >> Does anybody know what it means?
    >
    >Yes, that's how many spoke holes there are in the hub.

    Thank you.

    >
    >> Hmm, I've tried it and I must say that your statement is probably correct. I have only done
    >> it for a few times but it do feel snappier - although the brake is still very late-engaging
    >> of course
    >
    >That suggests a coaster brake. Make sure that the arm under the left chainstay is securely bolted
    >in place so it can't move around.
    >
    >Lubrication might help, medium-weight oil is good. If the hub doesn't have an oil port, you can lay
    >the bike on its left side, unscrew the little chain that connects the shift cable to the hub, and
    >drip oil in there. If it has been a while, I'd put in 30 drops.

    Thanks for the tip. Actually, today I began to dismantle the hub (the left side of it) and removed
    the four parts of the brake: the arm, the ball bearing, then two parts for I don't know the names
    of, first the thing that expand itself so its outside presses against the inside of the hub and
    thereby psychically stops the bike, and finally the part that makes the other one expand (is this
    the one you call: coaster?).

    After I cleaned the parts I understood that there were something fishy with the expanding part, it
    almost didn't expand at all no matter how much pressure I put in to my efforts. I assumed that this
    should be the reason for the late-engaging and I went and bought a new one. The new one expands real
    easy so tomorrow I will try and put it all together.

    Thanks Glen
     
  9. Jim Adney

    Jim Adney Guest

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:58:06 GMT Glen <[email protected]> wrote:

    >After I cleaned the parts I understood that there were something fishy with the expanding part, it
    >almost didn't expand at all no matter how much pressure I put in to my efforts. I assumed that this
    >should be the reason for the late-engaging and I went and bought a new one. The new one expands
    >real easy so tomorrow I will try and put it all together.

    They are usually too stiff to expand by hand. The mechanical advantage available, plus the fact that
    you are doing this with your leg muscles, is generally more than enough to overcome this. It needs
    to be stiff to make sure that it will return when you want it to.

    Where did you find replacement parts for a Torpedo hub?

    -
    -----------------------------------------------
    Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
    -----------------------------------------------
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "dr. glen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > First, I don't know where my head was when I wrote this; Naturally it is a: Sachs TORPEDO and not
    > a: Sachs Tornado ...
    >
    > ----------------
    > Mr. Russ Price:
    >
    > > http://www.sram24.com/techdoc/
    >
    > Thank you. These manuals are a bit new but hopefully I might pick some info out of them.
    > Thanks again.
    > -----------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Mr. Muzi
    >
    > > Is there a particular symptom when you say "bad" ? Does the brake work now? A three speed with
    > > coaster brake?
    >
    > It works, yes, but it is late-engaging. I assume it's a coaster brake but - according to this
    > site: <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm> - it could vary. It seems like that over the
    > years the gear had three types: coaster-, drum- and later years, disc brakes. I don't believe it
    > have a disc break though.
    >
    > The label on the hub says: "Sachs Torpedo Dreigang", and just to the right of this is symbol and
    > and the number: 36. It look something like this:
    >
    > 36
    > |_____|
    >
    > Does anybody know what it means?
    >
    > > Most late-engaging brake issues are from loose bearing adjustments. Adjust to the slightest
    > > perceptible play at
    the
    > > rim when the axle is fixed in a vise or in the bike and your brake
    should
    > > engage normally.
    >
    > Thank you, very helpful and clear.
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Mr. Mark (if I can be dr. glen then you certainly can be Mr. Mark :)
    >
    > > Could you define "bad brakes"?
    >
    > See above ...
    >
    > > I had a bike with the Sachs Torpedo Dreigang hub when I was a kid (1969 or so), and I had no
    > > idea they were still
    around.
    > > Where did you get yours and how old is it?
    >
    > I'm pretty sure of it's sometime from the 80s.
    >
    > The Torpedo Dreigang (3 speed) seems to be one of the longest running hub gears ever, now being
    > over 70 years old and just as good then as it is now. First manufactured by Torpedo, then by Sachs
    > and last by SRAM. If you want more information about it, I found this place:
    > <http://www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk/hubgear.htm>.
    >
    > > As I recall, the brake in question was far more effective in 1st gear
    than
    > > in 3rd, so simultaneous downshifting and braking was pretty much
    mandatory
    > > if you were serious about coming to a stop.
    >
    > Hmm, I've tried it and I must say that your statement is probably correct. I have only done it for
    > a few times but it do feel snappier - although the brake is still very late-engaging of course
    >
    > Thank you,. Glen
    >
    >
    >
    > In article dr. glen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Repair advice for a Sachs Tornado 3-speed hub (later bought by SRAM).
    > >
    > >This is my first bike in many years and I just love biking again :)
    > >
    > >I've just bought two bicycle handbooks and one day I'm going to build my own bike. However, the
    > >bike I have now will serve as a fix-up/learning project and it has bad brakes. The brake is
    > >located inside a Sachs Torpedo Dreigang 3-speed hub and I'm not sure what to replace or how to
    > >replace it. Does anyone know where I might a Service Manual or something similar?
    > >
    > >Any help will be most appreciated, thank you kindest, Glen
    >
    A coaster brake is a backpedal-to-engage brake. A drum brake uses a cable to actuate the brake
    mechaninsm. Both of those require a brake arm that extends the axle's leverage and bolts to the left
    chainstay.

    A disc is a bit larger than a CD and external - you couldn't miss it!

    "36" is the number of spoke holes punched in your hubshell.
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  11. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    Glen <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Thanks for the tip. Actually, today I began to dismantle the hub (the left side of it) and removed
    > the four parts of the brake: the arm, the ball bearing, then two parts for I don't know the names
    > of, first the thing that expand itself so its outside presses against the inside of the hub and
    > thereby psychically stops the bike,

    AHA! Mysteries of hub brakes finally are revealed!

    Now maybe we can get somewhere on that frame materials thread. . .

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  12. Glen

    Glen Guest

    Quoth Jim Adney ...

    >They are usually too stiff to expand by hand. The mechanical advantage available, plus the fact
    >that you are doing this with your leg muscles, is generally more than enough to overcome this. It
    >needs to be stiff to make sure that it will return when you want it to.

    So what in your opinion could cause the brake to be late-enganged?

    >Where did you find replacement parts for a Torpedo hub?

    I live in Sweden and, over the years, bikes with this gear have been among the biggest selling
    items, so there are still plenty of bikes which need service and replacement parts. Just let me know
    If you want the dealers name.

    Thank you, Glen

    >
    >-
    >-----------------------------------------------
    > Jim Adney [email protected] Madison, WI 53711 USA
    >-----------------------------------------------
     
  13. Glen

    Glen Guest

    Quoth Glen ...

    >Thanks for the tip. Actually, today I began to dismantle the hub (the left side of it) and removed
    >the four parts of the brake: the arm, the ball bearing, then two parts for I don't know the names
    >of, first the thing that expand itself so its outside presses against the inside of the hub and
    >thereby psychically stops the bike, and finally the part that makes the other one expand (is this
    >the one you call: coaster?).
    >
    >After I cleaned the parts I understood that there were something fishy with the expanding part, it
    >almost didn't expand at all no matter how much pressure I put in to my efforts. I assumed that this
    >should be the reason for the late-engaging and I went and bought a new one. The new one expands
    >real easy so tomorrow I will try and put it all together.

    I did it! After i replaced the expanding thingamy the brake's as new, woohoo :)

    I would like to thank you for taking your time to help me, thank you. Glen
     
  14. Glen

    Glen Guest

    Quoth A Muzi ...

    >> >Glen
    >>
    >A coaster brake is a backpedal-to-engage brake. A drum brake uses a cable to actuate the brake
    >mechaninsm. Both of those require a brake arm that extends the axle's leverage and bolts to the
    >left chainstay.
    >
    >A disc is a bit larger than a CD and external - you couldn't miss it!
    >
    >"36" is the number of spoke holes punched in your hubshell.

    Thank you very much again!

    I don't know if you have followed the main thread but; I dismantled the hub and replaced the
    "expanding thingamy" (sorry, I do not know the english name for it) and now the break is as new :) I
    took apart the whole gear mekanism and cleaned it and greased it.

    Thank you again, Glen
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...